Home charger - replace ESB ecar model?

sandy2000

Hi everyone. Im new to the board and to electric cars. sorry if Im asking a silly question but I couldnt find the answer in old posts. Ill be getting a second hand electric hybrid pretty soon so Ill be eligible for the SEAI grant.


Im living in an apartment that does not have a charger at the moment but Ill be moving in the next few months to a house which has one of the original free ESB chargers installed. I dont know whether its 16 or 32.



I think that means I can't get the grant for the new house. Would it make any sense to install the one where I am now or is there any way to swap them? The main reason Im asking is the house Im moving to is getting some work done to it at the moment incl having PVs installed. Ive seen a lot of posts on here recommending a zappi for that. Im concerned that the ESB charger that's there is not really the right thing to have but that it means I can't use the grant to replace it. Is that right or are there other options?



And if I end up having to just buy the zappi or something else, is there any advantage to keeping the ESB one and having two?

n97 mini

Will the car be at home during the day to avail of the solar power? If not, I personally probably wouldn't bother with replacing the charge point as there will be no return on investment. Also worth bearing in mind that an EV can be run for around 1c per km when charging on night saver electricity, so for 10,000km a year the cost of "fuel" will be in the ballpark of €100, so spending say €600 on a new CP that can avail of solar will have a payback time of at least 6 years.

KCross

I'd agree with n97_mini.

The existing eCars one in your new house will do you fine also. They seem to be reliable and can be reconfigured to 32A if you need to. It will almost certainly be configured as 16A right now.


Not sure if its possible but do you have any close relatives that you visit regularly and maybe you could install the new one there and it would be a win-win for you and them?

KCross

sandy2000 wrote: »

And if I end up having to just buy the zappi or something else, is there any advantage to keeping the ESB one and having two?

Having two is not simple.
Its possible you'd need to install a priority switch (€200ish) so that you don't blow the fuse in the case where you are drawing too much power.

Does your new house have an electric shower? If it does then a priority switch would be required for sure.

Ultimately you'd need an electrician to look at the house wiring, fuse, existing charge point etc to determine if you can install a second charge point or not.

As n97_mini said, paying for the Zappi is only going to be useful if the car is parked at home when the sun is shining. Otherwise it wont be worth swapping out the eCars charge point.

mordeith

Just to echo others above we have an original ecars charger and it works fine. Has since day one. It's a 16.

It's been used with an iMiev, Leaf and current an i3

sandy2000

Thanks everyone, that's helpful. The car would be home a good bit during the day but the place also currently has a nightsaver meter so it sounds like it might not be worth the hassle of trying to figure something out. The relatives place sounds like a good idea though.

PixelTrawler

KCross wrote: »

Having two is not simple.
Its possible you'd need to install a priority switch (€200ish) so that you don't blow the fuse in the case where you are drawing too much power.

Does your new house have an electric shower? If it does then a priority switch would be required for sure.

Ultimately you'd need an electrician to look at the house wiring, fuse, existing charge point etc to determine if you can install a second charge point or not.

As n97_mini said, paying for the Zappi is only going to be useful if the car is parked at home when the sun is shining. Otherwise it wont be worth swapping out the eCars charge point.

A zappi doesnt need a actual priority switch. We have a zappi and electric shower. Theres a small companion unit in the meter box called the Harvi. Its wirelessly linked to the zappi. When the shower is in use the zappi sees the demand via harvi, it cuts the power to the car.

creedp

PixelTrawler wrote: »

A zappi doesnt need a actual priority switch. We have a zappi and electric shower. Theres a small companion unit in the meter box called the Harvi. Its wirelessly linked to the zappi. When the shower is in use the zappi sees the demand via harvi, it cuts the power to the car.

How much does the Harvi cost?

_dof_

Note, you don't need the Harvi.

The Zappi comes with a clamp to measure the whole house electricity flow. I think it's got 15 meters of cable to wire it directly into the Zappi. If the Zappi is further away from the distribution board, you can extend that cable with any twisted pair cable, like cat5 ethernet cable.

The Harvi, is just a wireless version of the same thing,

In the menu of the Zappi, you can set the maximum power draw of the whole house, and when that limit is reached, the Zappi will reduce the current sent to the car to keep below that limit, it doesn't just completely cut the power like a priority switch would.

creedp

_dof_ wrote: »

Note, you don't need the Harvi.

The Zappi comes with a clamp to measure the whole house electricity flow. I think it's got 15 meters of cable to wire it directly into the Zappi. If the Zappi is further away from the distribution board, you can extend that cable with any twisted pair cable, like cat5 ethernet cable.

The Harvi, is just a wireless version of the same thing,

In the menu of the Zappi, you can set the maximum power draw of the whole house, and when that limit is reached, the Zappi will reduce the current sent to the car to keep below that limit, it doesn't just completely cut the power like a priority switch would.

I need a Harvi as my Zappi is installed in the garage and I can't physically link it to the meter box without chasing walls and drive. I dont have an electric shower or solar so no need to install harvi at this point. However if I opt to install pv in future it would be a simple if possibly expensive way to link zappi to meter.

Has anyone installed one and how has it worked out?

PixelTrawler

_dof_ wrote: »

Note, you don't need the Harvi.

The Zappi comes with a clamp to measure the whole house electricity flow. I think it's got 15 meters of cable to wire it directly into the Zappi. If the Zappi is further away from the distribution board, you can extend that cable with any twisted pair cable, like cat5 ethernet cable.

The Harvi, is just a wireless version of the same thing,

In the menu of the Zappi, you can set the maximum power draw of the whole house, and when that limit is reached, the Zappi will reduce the current sent to the car to keep below that limit, it doesn't just completely cut the power like a priority switch would.

Correct, on ours if the shower is drawing 8kw, the zappi reduces the car rate to about 0.5kw

PixelTrawler

creedp wrote: »

I need a Harvi as my Zappi is installed in the garage and I can't physically link it to the meter box without chasing walls and drive. I dont have an electric shower or solar so no need to install harvi at this point. However if I opt to install pv in future it would be a simple if possibly expensive way to link zappi to meter.

Has anyone installed one and how has it worked out?

If you get pv panels, take a look at the Eddi also. Same range as harvi/zappi but designed for panels. It links wirelessly also. No need to run cables for communication.

sandy2000

PixelTrawler wrote: »

If you get pv panels, take a look at the Eddi also. Same range as harvi/zappi but designed for panels. It links wirelessly also. No need to run cables for communication.

Does that mean you could use the Eddi to divert to a normal charger (like the ESB one)? So there would be no real need for a zappi?

KCross

PixelTrawler wrote: »

Correct, on ours if the shower is drawing 8kw, the zappi reduces the car rate to about 0.5kw

What car is that?
AFAIK the min the Leaf will take is 1.4kW(6A). Below that it will just shut off entirely.

sandy2000 wrote: »

Does that mean you could use the Eddi to divert to a normal charger (like the ESB one)? So there would be no real need for a zappi?

I don't think so. You need some smarts inside the charge point to ramp up and down the rate. The standard charge points are an all or nothing deal... nothing in between.

PixelTrawler

KCross wrote: »

What car is that?
AFAIK the min the Leaf will take is 1.4kW(6A). Below that it will just shut off entirely.




I don't think so. You need some smarts inside the charge point to ramp up and down the rate. The standard charge points are an all or nothing deal... nothing in between.

Outlander. Ill look again next time but the last time i checked it was showing 0.5 to the car.

iniall

Yeah I have an Outlander and a Zappi and mine does that too, drops the charge to 0.5kW when one of the electric showers is running.

KCross

PixelTrawler wrote: »

Outlander. Ill look again next time but the last time i checked it was showing 0.5 to the car.

iniall wrote: »

Yeah I have an Outlander and a Zappi and mine does that too, drops the charge to 0.5kW when one of the electric showers is running.

I dont know how thats possible. Even the Zappi manual says...
"Note: The EV charging standard does not support charging below 1.4kW"

It doesn't matter I guess, the main thing is that the Zappi does cut its power when the electric shower comes on.

denismc

KCross wrote: »

What car is that?
AFAIK the min the Leaf will take is 1.4kW(6A). Below that it will just shut off entirely.

AFAIk all EVs required a minimum of 1.4kw to charge and the Zappi is set up to work this way.

daheff

creedp wrote: »

How much does the Harvi cost?

a quick google has it priced around 50 GBP+VAT

https://myenergi.uk/product/harvi/

creedp

daheff wrote: »

a quick google has it priced around 50 GBP+VAT

https://myenergi.uk/product/harvi/

Worth it compared to the hassle of chasing walls and drive!

iniall

KCross wrote: »

I dont know how thats possible. Even the Zappi manual says...
"Note: The EV charging standard does not support charging below 1.4kW"

It doesn't matter I guess, the main thing is that the Zappi does cut its power when the electric shower comes on.

Hmmmm I could've sworn I saw it displaying 0.5kW going to the car. Will have to look at it again the next time the shower's running to confirm (or not).

boarduser01

I have Zappi with Harvi, we did not need a diverter as the Zappi adjusts as needed when the load gets too large. If the electric shower is switched on, the Zappi stops charging the car for that time.

If you have PV and don't have solar panels heating the water then the eddi is a good plan. We have solar panels to heat the water so we do not need an Eddi.

During the summer months we have had fantastic times of charging the car for free during the day, then it has a timer inbuilt to top up as required using the night rate electricity.

There is a fair bit that went to the grid as the car does not charge below 1.4Kw(6A) as others here have said. However the Zappi does allow you to alter the settings so that you can allow some electric to be drawn from the grid to allow charging, so we set it at 50% some days so that it was no more expensive than charging on night rate, but could still charge the car utilising solar, and often it would be more like 80% charged solar during the day.

It is a great advantage if you are likely to charge your car during the day. I cover very high milage in my EV so often top it up during the day at home, overall it is saving in charging the car. (though charging the car is not that expensive compared to ICE cars anyway!!!)

I am very happy with my Zappi!

daheff

iniall wrote: »

Hmmmm I could've sworn I saw it displaying 0.5kW going to the car. Will have to look at it again the next time the shower's running to confirm (or not).

Any chance that’s how much is going into the charger to keep it on until the load drops*

*I’m not good with electrical units, so forgive my ignorance if this is enough to power a small city!

iniall

I've noticed recently that it's getting harder to unplug the Zappi cable from the car in the morning. I have to use quite a bit of force and am worried I might be damaging the cable, the connection or both. Has anyone with a Zappi had any experience of this?

PixelTrawler

iniall wrote: »

I've noticed recently that it's getting harder to unplug the Zappi cable from the car in the morning. I have to use quite a bit of force and am worried I might be damaging the cable, the connection or both. Has anyone with a Zappi had any experience of this?

Any sign of corrosion?

iniall

PixelTrawler wrote: »

Any sign of corrosion?

Not that I can see. Zappi is brand new and the car is 2016 (& new to me) so wouldn’t expect there to be.