Really in serious trouble with property

memomtoo

I could not think of another option from posting here to see what is the solution for this!

we bought a property,used home,honestly paid more than average market price due to bidding trap, since commited-solicitor and estate agent confirmed there are no pending commitments, we bought it. after that due to badluck-this house ated a lot for repairs etc., long story
but now suddenly planning permission sent us notice that previous landlord made some renovations did not pay due balance to them and now that we owned, we need to pay, not a small amount to pay and as we knew before we did pay that landlord for renovation works as he mentioned it costed him a lot. and now at heartattack situation
anybody went through this type?
and solicitor ignoring us when questioned why they did not clarify this, they confirmed and only then we decided to buy

goldenhoarde

memomtoo wrote: »

I could not think of another option from posting here to see what is the solution for this!

we bought a property,used home,honestly paid more than average market price due to bidding trap, since commited-solicitor and estate agent confirmed there are no pending commitments, we bought it. after that due to badluck-this house ated a lot for repairs etc., long story
but now suddenly planning permission sent us notice that previous landlord made some renovations did not pay due balance to them and now that we owned, we need to pay, not a small amount to pay and as we knew before we did pay that landlord for renovation works as he mentioned it costed him a lot. and now at heartattack situation
anybody went through this type?
and solicitor ignoring us when questioned why they did not clarify this, they confirmed and only then we decided to buy

Have you closed or not? It's not really clear in your post as to whether you have paid and have the keys?

Actually looks like ye have as ye did repairs? Question is did ye do work covered under the pp as that might make ye liable.

Who is looking for the Money? Council?

Point them in the direction of the previous owner?

goldenhoarde

Also query again with your solicitor as really he should have covered this off

memomtoo

right now, we have the property its been an year, previous landlord did all renovations and we paid all that costs he mentioned incurred for his extensions etc.,
on market this can come for 230k,but we paid 290 due to bidding process torture trap.

recently PP sent us notice that we have to pay some outstanding, our lawyer confirmed to us we dont have outstanding matters on this property

GreeBo

Who was the letter from PP addressed to?

KevinCavan

Was it a cash buy? That’s the only scenario I could think of that would land you in such a predicament.

fxotoole

goldenhoarde wrote: »

Also query again with your solicitor as really he should have covered this off

I agree with this. It sounds like your solicitor has f***ed up. I wouldn't pay the solicitor until he resolves this.

Hitman3000

What was your solicitor at, did they not confirm that the build was compliant? The previous owner is responsible for any monies due. As for the price, you were not forced to bid up.

memomtoo

GreeBo wrote: »

Who was the letter from PP addressed to?

to us because this is under our name now
and i have no idea why they never sent this to previous landlord

memomtoo

fxotoole wrote: »

I agree with this. It sounds like your solicitor has f***ed up. I wouldn't pay the solicitor until he resolves this.

but its all after everything is done, this has happened!

Glass fused light

memomtoo wrote: »

we bought a property,used home,honestly paid more than average market price due to bidding trap

your choice and while it may have left you cash poor it's not really relevant to your current situation. Except that you would have tried to reduced the price by the outstanding council fees.

memomtoo wrote: »

solicitor

Your solicitor ?

memomtoo wrote: »

estate agent

Works for seller and can not confirm anything as they never see the legal paperwork and can only repeat what the seller said.

memomtoo wrote: »

but now suddenly planning permission sent us notice that previous landlord made some renovations did not pay due balance to them and now that we owned, we need to pay, not a small amount to pay

Your issue is that the planning is not legal until the planning contribution is paid to the council.

memomtoo wrote: »

and as we knew before we did pay that landlord for renovation works as he mentioned it costed him a lot. and now at heartattack situation

Was this included as part of the sale price for the house?

memomtoo wrote: »

and solicitor ignoring us when questioned why they did not clarify this, they confirmed and only then we decided to buy

Your first step is to go back to your solicitor and clarify what checks were made by them and what assurances were given by the seller, do this by a face to face meeting with whom ever was dealing with the transaction and have your list of questions done in advance of the meeting so that you keep the conversation on track.

memomtoo

yes, we agreed only after they confirmed there are no outstanding payments on this. we asked for renovations too, we paid too much for this honestly after checking with many, but accepted it. but now its too much to pay again for soemthing we are not aware of
never come across a legal complaint stuff, so scary to nerves, its life

RayCun

Talk to your solicitor.

endacl

No legal advice to offer. Only practical.

Stop. Take a breath. It’s friday evening. Nothing will happen over the weekend. Take the weekend off.

Take another deep breath.

Reality: Every time somebody contacts you over this, refer them to your solicitor. They’re the person you’re paying to sort these messes out. By engaging the solicitor, you have taken a reasonable practical step. That’s your job done for now. Re any extra payments due? Can’t get blood from a stone. If it transpires you have to pay it, insist on a reasonable payment plan. Let your solicitor do the talking. They are your buffer. That’s their job. And they don’t get paid till they do it.

Right. Another deep breath now. It’s friday. Go for a walk.

awec

If I am understanding the OP correctly, he has been living in the house and owned it for a year at this stage.

He has no solicitor, the one he used to buy it will have been paid long ago.

RayCun

awec wrote: »

If I am understanding the OP correctly, he has been living in the house and owned it for a year at this stage.

He has no solicitor, the one he used to buy it will have been paid long ago.

But if these are debts that were incurred by the previous owner, that are being passed to him as the current owner, his solicitor at the time of purchase should have been aware of them - or in a position to say that he is not responsible for these debts at all.

And, frankly, OP needs someone to sit him down and get some clarity what exactly is happening because their posts are garbled.

awec

RayCun wrote: »

But if these are debts that were incurred by the previous owner, that are being passed to him as the current owner, his solicitor at the time of purchase should have been aware of them - or in a position to say that he is not responsible for these debts at all.

And, frankly, OP needs someone to sit him down and get some clarity what exactly is happening because their posts are garbled.

Yes, he needs to speak to the solicitor he used himself to understand how this was missed.

But there is no point just referring all inquiries to that solicitor, they will be ignored. The solicitor has been paid, they are done.

The_Conductor

RayCun wrote: »

But if these are debts that were incurred by the previous owner, that are being passed to him as the current owner, his solicitor at the time of purchase should have been aware of them - or in a position to say that he is not responsible for these debts at all.

And, frankly, OP needs someone to sit him down and get some clarity what exactly is happening because their posts are garbled.

Planning contributions are associated with the property- and the property is not compliant from a planning perspective- until they have all been paid off and the paper signed on the bottom line..........

The solicitor would appear to have been negligent here- and the solicitor should, by rights, be the OP's first port of call...........

Muahahaha

Glass fused light wrote: »

Your first step is to go back to your solicitor and clarify what checks were made by them and what assurances were given by the seller, do this by a face to face meeting with whom ever was dealing with the transaction and have your list of questions done in advance of the meeting so that you keep the conversation on track.

By what the OP is saying the solicitor he used may have been negligent by not informing him of these planning contributions. If he was it is better to now deal with him by email only when asking questions about why he did not spot this problem and forewarn the OP before the sale closed. The solicitor should have done this and with good practice he should have asked the OP to sign a declaration stating that they are aware of the planning contributions being owed.

One thing Im wondering is was this a cash sale? If there is a mortgage on the property it could be an even bigger issue.

riclad

You can get advice from a free legal advice centre, see flac in your area .
https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Complaints-against-solicitors/
you can make a complaint about the solicitor,
He is supposed to check re any outstanding charges ,fees, dues on the property ,as part of the process of buying the house.
He is already paid , so his job is done unless you wish to make a formal complaint against him.
The landlord could have changed adress so they can only write to you
,and they may not know where he is.
Are you legally bound to pay his bill ,you have no contract with the builder.

https://www.facebook.com/FLACIreland/

memomtoo

riclad wrote: »

You can get advice from a free legal advice centre, see flac in your area .
https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Complaints-against-solicitors/
you can make a complaint about the solicitor,
He is supposed to check re any outstanding charges ,fees, dues on the property ,as part of the process of buying the house.
He is already paid , so his job is done unless you wish to make a formal complaint against him.
The landlord could have changed adress so they can only write to you
,and they may not know where he is.
Are you legally bound to pay his bill ,you have no contract with the builder.

https://www.facebook.com/FLACIreland/

absolutely agree!
what we can guess or do if solicitor wont let us know that. i have email from solicitor confirming that there are no outstanding matters on that property only then we dared to buy. not sure where to go but we are not in a position to pay this much at our badtimes where we stretched hard to pay for our kid's surgery, we been postponing because of no monies

davo10

You need to talk to your solicitor, if he/she has informed you that you are not liable, let the solicitor sort it out. This type of issue is covered in your conveyance agreement with your solicitor.

You said your solicitor confirmed there are no outstanding matters on the property, solicitors rarely get it wrong.

Seth Brundle

davo10 wrote: »

You said your solicitor confirmed there are no outstanding matters on the property, solicitors rarely get it wrong.

"Rarely"
What happens on the occasions that they do get it wrong?

davo10

Seth Brundle wrote: »

"Rarely"
What happens on the occasions that they do get it wrong?

Complaint to Law Society.

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

Complaint to Law Society.

The Law Society does not deal with negligence complaints. To get redress the solicitor has to be sued.

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

The Law Society does not deal with negligence complaints. To get redress the solicitor has to be sued.

Actually they do help the complainant:


https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Complaints-against-solicitors/Negligence-Panel/

Also see: "inadequate professional service"

https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Complaints-against-solicitors/

After that, next step the Court if it's a big amount op wants redress for, but unless I missed something here, the op is not out of pocket yet, he just received an invoice from the council which hasn't and probably won't be paid as it relates to the previous owner. The solicitor needs to sort this out one way or the other.

Henry Ford III

Not a good situation unfortunately OP. Paying too much for a house isn't a trap though. It's a decision.

Gumbo

davo10 wrote: »

Op, if the renovations required planning, the fees go with the applicant, and in your case who undertook construction, i.e. the previous owner.

This is incorrect. Planning contributions remain with the property and any owner at the time of collection. The planning authority will chase the current owners as they are the ones that have the non compliant development.

The OP should have had a survey done prior to purchase and thus the planning would have been picked up and therefore a request for planning compliance. Then the op would have had someone to chase.

davo10

kceire wrote: »

This is incorrect. Planning contributions remain with the property and any owner at the time of collection. The planning authority will chase the current owners as they are the ones that have the non compliant development.

The OP should have had a survey done prior to purchase and thus the planning would have been picked up and therefore a request for planning compliance. Then the op would have had someone to chase.

Have to admit, in my experience the person doing the survey of a property for sale has never checked the planning, they just check the condition of the property to see if there is anything of concern. I wasn't aware that they check planning and if contributors paid. I would have thought that would be the solicitor's job.

Glass fused light

Muahahaha wrote: »

By what the OP is saying the solicitor he used may have been negligent by not informing him of these planning contributions. If he was it is better to now deal with him by email only when asking questions about why he did not spot this problem and forewarn the OP before the sale closed. The solicitor should have done this and with good practice he should have asked the OP to sign a declaration stating that they are aware of the planning contributions being owed.

One thing Im wondering is was this a cash sale? If there is a mortgage on the property it could be an even bigger issue.

The issue is fact based either the fees were paid or were not paid and either the solicitor missed this fact or had made provision for the outstanding payment.
From the OP's postings I am guessing that English is not his/her first language so a face to face meeting could clear up the confusion quicker. The solicitor is claiming that there are no fees outstanding but is not engaging with the OP. So a face to face with their file on the table will give the OP a chance to have a discussion on what documents are on file ie copy of the planning compliance and the planning fees receipt.
They both attend and one keeps a written record of what was viewed and said and sends the Meeting minutes to the solicitor.
If the solicitor had spotted this as outstanding the sellers solicitor may have given an undertaking that the fees would be paid from the sales proceeds. In this instance the solicitor would have to follow up with the sellers solicitor.
If the solicitor has proof of payment the OP can supply this to the Council and refer all correspondence to the seller (if address is known) and/or the sellers solicitor (who should have the sellers new address for billing purposes).
If the fees had been missed the solicitor may agree to pay the fee (an initial inquiry about a complaint to the law society may result in the solicitor getting an 'encouraging' phone call from them to resolve the matter), otherwise it would require a civil court case against the solicitor to recover the cost of the fees.

As for the mortgage once it is being paid the bank won't care about the planning fees, if they needed to sell due to a default it's an additional cost to the bank. But a judge is not going to give a bank posession of the house once the loan payments are being made. I believe the solicitor gives the bank an independant undertaking that the sale is free and clear so the bank could have redress against the solicitor.

davo10 wrote: »

After that, next step the Court if it's a big amount op wants redress for, but unless I missed something here, the op is not out of pocket yet, he just received an invoice from the council which hasn't and probably won't be paid as it relates to the previous owner. The solicitor needs to sort this out one way or the other.

The non payment of the fee leaves the OP with a house which is in breach of planning, enforcement could ask the OP to return the house to the previous state (unlikely), or get a judgement registered against the house as I suspect that the fees are attached to the physical building.

davo10 wrote: »

It's been a while since I dealt with planning office, but aren't the big fees the ones for connection to roads/water/sewage? I'm pretty sure these have to be paid before building can proceed but I could be wrong. If they do, then the council should surely going back to the applicant and person who owned the property/did the building.

No if it is an existing building some of those may not be levied at all as they would already exist, the "social contribution" would be due. The fees should be paid but depending on the local area they may not have chased the money in a timely fashion.

davo10

Thanks Gased Fused Light, that clears a lot up.

TCM

Glass fused light wrote:

Your first step is to go back to your solicitor and clarify what checks were made by them and what assurances were given by the seller, do this by a face to face meeting with whom ever was dealing with the transaction and have your list of questions done in advance of the meeting so that you keep the conversation on track.

Absolutely.
Your solicitor is responsible for ensuring all aspects of the house (from your perspective) purchase comply with legal requirements and that nothing can come back to 'bite you' as it were.

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

Actually they do help the complainant:


https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Complaints-against-solicitors/Negligence-Panel/

All the law society do is give a list of solicitors prepared to sue your solicitor for negligence. They don't investigate negligence themselves. Negligence of itself, or apparent negligence, is not regarded as an inadequate professional service. Inadequate professional service complains are usually poor communication, telling lies, not furnishing fee estimates, no responding to correspondence and not doing the work in a timely manner.

The_Honeybadger

This happened when we bought our house there was (and still is) planning contributions owed on the property, our solicitor picked it up and made the sellers sign a declaration stating that they are responsible for these fees.

It delayed things for ages and my wife in particular would have agreed to anything at the time to get the sale through but my solicitor dug her heels in, glad she did now.

Gumbo

davo10 wrote: »

Have to admit, in my experience the person doing the survey of a property for sale has never checked the planning, they just check the condition of the property to see if there is anything of concern. I wasn't aware that they check planning and if contributors paid. I would have thought that would be the solicitor's job.

No, it’s a standard part of a pre purchase building survey.
The solicitor never visits the site so they never know that there’s extensions, planning issues etc only for the surveyors report.

TheIronyMaiden

We've just bought a house OP that had a large shed built out the back by the previous owner. One of the first things my solicitor talked to me about was having to hold things up until she got the certificate of planning exemption for that shed, she wasn't continuing until she got that from the seller. She said that I could sue her if she hadn't checked that out and there was a planning problem with it. So I would imagine it is the same in your case.

Best of luck with everything OP, buying a house is such an expensive time without any of that messing!

Iodine1

I might be wrong here but I get the impression that the renovations were done by the previous owner, but on top of the sale price? I think that means that they were like extras done by the builder (previous owner) at the OPs request, which could mean the OP is responsible for Planning, whether it was obtained or not etc?

memomtoo

Iodine1 wrote: »

I might be wrong here but I get the impression that the renovations were done by the previous owner, but on top of the sale price? I think that means that they were like extras done by the builder (previous owner) at the OPs request, which could mean the OP is responsible for Planning, whether it was obtained or not etc?

renovations and extensions are done by previous owner and they charged us 50k extra for all these(its wont even take that much for these works, we found out from few builders here)

astrofool

So, you bought the house for €290,000, then paid €50,000 for works to be done by the previous owner, which apparently breached planning rules somehow, or incurred a cost from the county council to carry them out?

It all sounds very strange, was this a rural or urban dwelling? Was the house new, or second hand? Is it in an estate, or a one off?

If you commissioned the works, then it's likely the bill will be with you to settle.

uck51js9zml2yt

I find it odd that a buyer would ask a seller to do work on a house before it's bought.
This just doesn't make sense!

Sleeper12

KevinCavan wrote:

Was it a cash buy? That’s the only scenario I could think of that would land you in such a predicament.

Cash or mortgage would make no difference. Solicitor seems to have dropped the ball on this.

riclad

Its up to the solicitor to check is there any outstanding bills due on the house before the sale goes through.
Did you tell him you were paying the owner to carry out repairs on the house.
Any building work might require planning permission or at least a cert of exemption from an architect ,the solicitor should know this.

Iodine1

It looks to me that buyer bought house then paid €50k extra to have work done (stated to be too dear but agreed). Solicitor may have transferred original house without the extras, so may well have cleared everything as they should have legally and thus may not be at fault. They would also have no say in the price or the value of the 'extras'. Post is not very clear on the details.