Immigration to Uk

jkminney · 27-08-2018 7:57am #1

Does anyone know if there is a legit way to move from ROI to NI where one spouse is dual Irish/UK citizen and other spouse is American? I'm sure we could apply for a normal family visa but it would obviously be better if we could do it without having to pay £1500 to do it. We have been living in ROI for over a year

I've read contradictory info so now I'm even more confused than I was! Any info is appreciated. TIA

_brendand_ · 27-08-2018 8:10am

The main issue is that you'd be dealing with the UK home office, the biggest bunch of s**tbags in the entire world. What could potentially make a difference is if your spouse has dual Irish/UK citizenship because they are from NI, or for some other reason. If it's because they are from NI then I've heard that the Home Office believe it to be within their rights to consider them a British citizen for visa purposes meaning they would require a UK spouse visa. You could *try* making an application for an EU spouse visa through your 'Irish' spouse but as mentioned, they might reject it.

jkminney · 27-08-2018 8:16am

_brendand_ wrote: »

The main issue is that you'd be dealing with the UK home office, the biggest bunch of s**tbags in the entire world. What could potentially make a difference is if your spouse has dual Irish/UK citizenship because they are from NI, or for some other reason. If it's because they are from NI then I've heard that the Home Office believe it to be within their rights to consider them a British citizen for visa purposes meaning they would require a UK spouse visa. You could *try* making an application for an EU spouse visa through your 'Irish' spouse but as mentioned, they might reject it.

He was born in England so that route won't work I suppose. What a pain. We live in a border county and he works in the North. It would just be so much easier if it was just straight forward. Moving to ROI was the easiest thing I've ever done. But the UK seems even more complicated than when he came to the US and that's saying something!

_brendand_ · 27-08-2018 8:31am

You could still try, the application is free, however you'd have to have an address in the North. These applications can be made after arrival so as long as you're prepared for the possibility that in a years time (about how long it takes them to assess the application) you might be told you can't remain there, then nothing ventured nothing gained.

jkminney · 27-08-2018 8:35am

Thank you for the info.

Not being funny but if I'm not allowed to be in the UK for more than 6 months wouldn't it be an issue if it took a year to process the application? I would think for the additional 6 months they could look at that as an overstay.

_brendand_ · 27-08-2018 8:40am

jkminney wrote: »

Thank you for the info.

Not being funny but if I'm not allowed to be in the UK for more than 6 months wouldn't it be an issue if it took a year to process the application? I would think for the additional 6 months they could look at that as an overstay.

Well, I am speaking from experience

Myself and my wife (non-EU) were in the UK (England) and we moved back last year. Easier than applying for an Irish spouse visa (which would have required us to wait in England until it was approved) was to just go to Ireland (via Belfast) and make the application. They are required to issue you with temporary permission sufficient to allow your application to be processed. This might be initially for six months, but if the timescales are dragging out they will allow you to renew it. This is required by EU law. It may be the case that they reject the initial application if you don't have any case (they may state that because your spouse is 'British' according to them you have to apply for a UK spouse visa). At least you'd know sooner rather than later then.

_brendand_ · 27-08-2018 8:44am

Oh yeah, all this advice doesn't take into account Brexit... Go figure

jkminney · 27-08-2018 8:46am

_brendand_ wrote: »

Well, I am speaking from experience Myself and my wife (non-EU) were in the UK (England) and we moved back last year. Easier than applying for an Irish spouse visa (which would have required us to wait in England until it was approved) was to just go to Ireland (via Belfast) and make the application. They are required to issue you with temporary permission sufficient to allow your application to be processed. This might be initially for six months, but if the timescales are dragging out they will allow you to renew it. This is required by EU law. It may be the case that they reject the initial application if you don't have any case (they may state that because your spouse is 'British' according to them you have to apply for a UK spouse visa). At least you'd know sooner rather than later then.

Sorry I'm a bit confused on this. If you were already in the UK why go to Ireland in order to be in the UK?

jkminney · 27-08-2018 8:49am

_brendand_ wrote: »

Oh yeah, all this advice doesn't take into account Brexit... Go figure

That's exactly why I'm wondering if we should try to sort it BEFORE whatever is gonna happen actually happens.

It's not a good feeling to not know what is really going to happen. Originally we thought we can just wait the 3 yrs and I'll apply for Irish citizenship and THEN we could move the other side no issue but who knows if they are really going to keep the CTA.

_brendand_ · 27-08-2018 8:56am

jkminney wrote: »

Sorry I'm a bit confused on this. If you were already in the UK why go to Ireland in order to be in the UK?

We didn't, we are still in Ireland. Our case isn't exactly the same as yours, countries are interchangable but the same laws *should* still apply.

jkminney · 27-08-2018 9:06am

_brendand_ wrote: »

We didn't, we are still in Ireland. Our case isn't exactly the same as yours, countries are interchangable but the same laws *should* still apply.

So you've made an application to go back to the UK but are in Ireland whilst you wait for it to process? If we have to pay the 1500 we can just think it's nuts that people from other EU countries can move there but because of this dual citizenship business its screwing us lol

_brendand_ · 27-08-2018 9:11am

jkminney wrote: »

So you've made an application to go back to the UK but are in Ireland whilst you wait for it to process? If we have to pay the 1500 we can just think it's nuts that people from other EU countries can move there but because of this dual citizenship business its screwing us lol

No, sorry. We were in the UK. I am Irish and my wife is Indian. We moved back last year to Dublin. We did this by flying to Belfast, then applying for an EU spouse visa in Dublin. She got the visa last month. We don't have any intention of living in the UK any time soon.

Your situation should be similar - you want to move from Ireland to the UK with your Irish spouse. You would be able to apply for the same EU spouse visa.

I was just saying that they will issue you with a temporary visa while your application is being processed. If they take an excessive amount of time to process it, the onus is on them to extend your visa.

The only reason I can see why your application would be rejected is if they determine that your spouse is in fact British, not Irish. They have done this to other couples before - the legal basis for it is arguable though.

_brendand_ · 27-08-2018 9:14am

jkminney wrote: »

So you've made an application to go back to the UK but are in Ireland whilst you wait for it to process? If we have to pay the 1500 we can just think it's nuts that people from other EU countries can move there but because of this dual citizenship business its screwing us lol

And you're right, it is a bit nuts. At the crux of it is the idea that EU law is applied to EU citizens in other EU countries but national law is applied to that countries own citizens.

Marcusm · 27-08-2018 9:54am

_brendand_ wrote: »

And you're right, it is a bit nuts. At the crux of it is the idea that EU law is applied to EU citizens in other EU countries but national law is applied to that countries own citizens.

Except where the National has exercised treaty rights and established themselves abroad. In such circumstances when they seek to move back to their own country they can assert treaty rights as they have been a resident of another member state. I think “Surinder Singh” was one of the original cases. I seem to recall 6 months in the EU was regarded as sufficient. It was the subject of a lot of press coverage when the U.K. introduced minimum income levels for spousal and family migration which cannot apply when asserting treaty rights. Find a specialist U.K. immigration forum.

_brendand_ · 27-08-2018 9:56am

Marcusm wrote: »

Except where the National has exercised treaty rights and established themselves abroad. In such circumstances when they seek to move back to their own country they can assert treaty rights as they have been a resident of another member state. I think “Surinder Singh” was one of the original cases. I seem to recall 6 months in the EU was regarded as sufficient. It was the subject of a lot of press coverage when the U.K. introduced minimum income levels for spousal and family migration which cannot apply when asserting treaty rights. Find a specialist U.K. immigration forum.

You'll note that's precisely the precedent we used, as otherwise I'd be considered an Irish national, but because I exercised treaty rights in the UK, I'm considered an EU national.

Immigration to Uk

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