School won't allow switching to higher lvl math??

emi_nenCe

Hi,

Was wondering if anybody had any experience with this or have any advice?

My brother is starting 5th year and he's been doing ordinary level math but wants to switch to higher level. He's been told that if he gets good result at the end of Transition Year - which he did (97%), he can switch.
But now, vice principal is saying he can't and 'needs to show effort' until October and then they will decide. They have already broken their promise so it's putting a lot of stress and my brother.

I know there's quite a jump between HL and OL but I don't understand why the school won't even give him a chance and overall they are being very difficult about it.

It's his leaving cert after all, is the school even allowed to force students into ordinary level?

mrcheez

emi_nenCe wrote: »

Hi,

Was wondering if anybody had any experience with this or have any advice?

My brother is starting 5th year and he's been doing ordinary level math but wants to switch to higher level. He's been told that if he gets good result at the end of Transition Year - which he did (97%), he can switch.
But now, vice principal is saying he can't and 'needs to show effort' until October and then they will decide. They have already broken their promise so it's putting a lot of stress and my brother.

I know there's quite a jump between HL and OL but I don't understand why the school won't even give him a chance and overall they are being very difficult about it.

It's his leaving cert after all, is the school even allowed to force students into ordinary level?

Bizarre, I opted for Higher Level going into 5th year, despite being ordinary level to that point (and pretty average tbh).

Got an A2 in my Leaving.

Would have thought it was up to the student?

Brian?

The school shouldn’t be making that decision. It’s the students prerogative to chose subjects and levels.

spurious

The school has a class of students to consider. If your brother can keep up, great, he will stay in the class, if he can't, should he really be allowed hold everyone else up?

Sounds like he is able to do the work, from his OL results, so there shouldn't be an issue, but if your brother was in a HL class being made to go over the same stuff again and again because there are people in the class not keeping up, would that be fair?

Students can of course choose what level they want to do on the day of the exam.

Franz Von Peppercorn

spurious wrote: »

The school has a class of students to consider. If your brother can keep up, great, he will stay in the class, if he can't, should he really be allowed hold everyone else up?

Sounds like he is able to do the work, from his OL results, so there shouldn't be an issue, but if your brother was in a HL class being made to go over the same stuff again and again because there are people in the class not keeping up, would that be fair?

Students can of course choose what level they want to do on the day of the exam.

Is the difference between OL and HL so big that a high A+ in the one means you have no hope in the other?

Not a rhetorical question.

Stanford

What exam did he do at the end of TY to get 97%?

emi_nenCe

Thank you all for your replies. I guess he's going to have to convince the school somehow.

Stanford wrote: »

What exam did he do at the end of TY to get 97%?

Think it was just end of the year test..

mirrorwall14

What was his JC grade? Maths teacher here. There is a massive difference between OL and HL LC. It cannot be under estimated. Students with C or below at HL will find LC tough going and you can have students with a JC HL B taking the OL option in the end. JCOL is a long way behind even JCHL. Did your brother get the JCHL book and catch up on all of the sections he didn’t do in JC?

As a teacher I’d be cautious of a TY maths exam being any indicator of ability for LCHL.

However having said that the school shouldn’t be saying one thing then doing another. If a student wished to switch up for me they would have gotten a specific test to properly gauge their ability for LC as well as ongoing observation during TY to see if they actually were applying themselves to catching up on JCHL material. A guess may be that they haven’t enough HL students for another class?

emi_nenCe

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

What was his JC grade? Maths teacher here. There is a massive difference between OL and HL LC. It cannot be under estimated. Students with C or below at HL will find LC tough going and you can have students with a JC HL B taking the OL option in the end. JCOL is a long way behind even JCHL. Did your brother get the JCHL book and catch up on all of the sections he didn’t do in JC?

As a teacher I’d be cautious of a TY maths exam being any indicator of ability for LCHL.

However having said that the school shouldn’t be saying one thing then doing another. If a student wished to switch up for me they would have gotten a specific test to properly gauge their ability for LC as well as ongoing observation during TY to see if they actually were applying themselves to catching up on JCHL material. A guess may be that they haven’t enough HL students for another class?

Looks like he actually did HL for JC but barely passed and then started doing OL for whatever reason.
No question about it being tough, but he's been told by the principal that if he get's more than 90% he would be allowed to take HL again... Already bought the books and everything.
Thanks anyway. Parents are going to have another talk with the school.

Stanford

"As a teacher I’d be cautious of a TY maths exam being any indicator of ability for LCHL".....thats why I asked the question as to what exam he got 97% in and I would agree with the above statement. That having been said TY is not an academic year and very little study goes on during it. Very often these decisions are made to facilitate the operating requirements of the school.

I suggest you arrange to meet the VP with him and ask him to allow your brother to enter HL to be reviewed again at the Christmas tests, he should not be forced to do OL unless it becomes obvious that he is not able for it, how do his parents feel about the school's decision?

mirrorwall14

Ok he will definitely need to pull up his socks to get through LCHL but at least he has "done" the JCHL course. I would speak to the school again

Stanford

I am now confused, you say "Looks like he actually did HL for JC but barely passed and then started doing OL for whatever reason.".

Did he do actual attempt either JCHL or JCOL and what was he final grade in whatever he attempted?

Did he get 97% in a TY end of year course which is not a formal State Exam, can you explain please?

emi_nenCe

Stanford wrote: »

I am now confused, you say "Looks like he actually did HL for JC but barely passed and then started doing OL for whatever reason.".

Did he do actual attempt either JCHL or JCOL and what was he final grade in whatever he attempted?

Did he get 97% in a TY end of year course which is not a formal State Exam, can you explain please?

Sure, he did JC HL, got D3. Started doing OL in TY. Then decided to switch back half way through but was not allowed to. Was told he needed to get above 90% in the end of year test if he wants to do HL next year. Got 97% but was still placed in OL.

LaLa2004

D3 is a very low grade. He will be under pressure in the ordinary-level Maths class.

Stanford

That changes things for me, D3 in JCHL is very poor and the high grade in TY is in no way comparable to sitting the LCHL, I think he will struggle with LCHL, the only way IMO opinion for him to be allowed LCHL is on a trial basis to see how he does in the end of year tests, thats not too late for him to drop back to LCHL if he needs too, remember his colleagues will have 3 years of JCHL behind them.

emi_nenCe

Yes, I agree but LC was never meant to be easy )

Martina1991

Just from experience here.

To keep up with and do well at higher level for leaving cert, an A or B in Junior Cert would be ideal.

A student can always work hard but it may require a lot of time and effort.

I wouldn't take the TY exam as an indicator for the HL leaving cert syllabus.

At the end of the day, it should be your brothers decision.

jeonahr

I'm currently going into sixth year. Got an A at JCHL and I get 70s-80s in class. I also know girls who got As but are barely scraping passes. LCHL maths is in no way easy. Especially if you haven't got the basics up to scratch. Most teachers will presume that you already know the basics and seeing as he got a D3 in JCHL it would seem like a very hard jump to make.
TY end of year tests are by no means an indicator to someone's ability to do LCHL. Was the TY maths class common level? Was it set up like a JCHL?

rainbowtrout

emi_nenCe wrote: »

Yes, I agree but LC was never meant to be easy )

Yes but if he barely passed JCHL, he will more than likely not survive in LCHL.

Also I presume he got a D, as there's no break down of grades at JC Level. There's no such thing as a D3.

In my experience students who get a D at JCHL do ordinary level for leaving cert, and those that stay on in the higher level class at the start of fifth year are gone by the end of September. They just can keep up. There is a massive gulf between HL and OL at Leaving Cert. Ordinary Level LC is very similar to Higher Level Junior Cert.

Pints?

I barely passed JC Hiher level maths. However this was due to poor teachers as everyone in my class had same issues. I insisted on HL for LC when they tried to put me into ordinary level. Did HL along with applied maths at HL for LC and got C1 and C2 respectively.
Sometimes the student just never got a chance. I will admit I had great teachers in 5th and 6th years.

Pints?

Pints? wrote: »

I barely passed JC Hiher level maths. However this was due to poor teachers as everyone in my class had same issues. I insisted on HL for LC when they tried to put me into ordinary level. Did HL along with applied maths at HL for LC and got C1 and C2 respectively.
Sometimes the student just never got a chance. I will admit I had great teachers in 5th and 6th years.

Just after discussing this with my mam. Apparently school made her sign to say if I failed HL maths at LC they took no responsibility. I lold