fire brigade charge-landlord or tenant liable

gercoral

just asking for a friend..

renting an apt, a neighbour called the fire brigade coz a tiny fire broke out on the balcony back when we had the good weather. this was caused by the sun. the balcony had old and dried wood the brigade said.

bill from fire brigade was sent to the tenants address today (with landlords name). tenant has been living there for about 6 years but only signed a one year contract in the first year and never again.

just wondering, who is liable for the bill? landlord or tenant?

Wabbit Ears

If the balcony itself went on fire in an apartment block it depends on who's responsible for the upkeep of the balcony. Often it's the management company. So landlords responsibility to chase that.

However.. the story as explained isn't very plausible/believable.

Victor

Things don't normally catch fire without an underlying cause, even in hot weather.

gercoral wrote: »

this was caused by the sun.

Did someone leave a glass vase, drinking glass, a magnifying glass or something similar on the balcony?

tenant has been living there for about 6 years but only signed a one year contract in the first year and never again.

Irrelevant.

just wondering, who is liable for the bill? landlord or tenant?

Who's responsible for the fire? Note that you also have to consider the management company, who own the building.

L1011

For wood to be set on fire by heat requires 180 degrees. That would need magnification of sunlight to occur.

Was it by any chance a BBQ ember or a cigarette butt that took hold where otherwise it wouldn't due to the dryness?

gercoral

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

If the balcony itself went on fire in an apartment block it depends on who's responsible for the upkeep of the balcony. Often it's the management company. So landlords responsibility to chase that.

However.. the story as explained isn't very plausible/believable.

which part isn't very believable?

gercoral

L1011 wrote: »

For wood to be set on fire by heat requires 180 degrees. That would need magnification of sunlight to occur.

Was it by any chance a BBQ ember or a cigarette butt that took hold where otherwise it wouldn't due to the dryness?

just asked my friend...she said there was glass on the balcony! so i guess the sun shone through and ignited the balcony

Glass fused light

Wood, even dry wood does not combust on its own in sunlight.

If the wood was set on fire by a structural element eg glass balcony wall the management company need to be informed ASAP.

If the wood was set on fire by something placed on the balcony, who placed the ignition source on the balcony?

gercoral

Victor wrote: »

Things don't normally catch fire without an underlying cause, even in hot weather.Did someone leave a glass vase, drinking glass, a magnifying glass or something similar on the balcony?

Irrelevant.

Who's responsible for the fire? Note that you also have to consider the management company, who own the building.

aahhh, never even thought if the management company. my friend said there is a caretaker on site who actually called the landlord of the apartment when it happened and he came that evening.

L1011

gercoral wrote: »

just asked my friend...she said there was glass on the balcony! so i guess the sun shone through and ignited the balcony

That brings it back in to the plausible anyway.

The balcony is likely the responsibility of the management company. Has anyone repaired it?

gercoral

Glass fused light wrote: »

Wood, even dry wood does not combust on its own in sunlight.

If the wood was set on fire by a structural element eg glass balcony wall the management company need to be informed ASAP.

If the wood was set on fire by something placed on the balcony, who placed the ignition source on the balcony?

my friend said there was glass on the balcony

gercoral

L1011 wrote: »

That brings it back in to the plausible anyway.

The balcony is likely the responsibility of the management company. Has anyone repaired it?

nope she said it still hasn't been repaired

Happy4all

The stupid tenant. End of.....

Glass fused light

gercoral wrote: »

my friend said there was glass on the balcony

Glass where on the balcony? What type of glass was it?

Mrs OBumble

gercoral wrote: »

who is liable for the bill? landlord or tenant?

For fire brigade bills in general, it's property-owner who is liable. That's usually (not always) the landlord.

Now the LL or their insurance company may want to take action against the tenant for negligence (or whatever the legal term is for damaging someone else's property thru you own stupidity), and they may offer the option of paying the fire-service bill as a way to convince them not to pursue this line of thinking.

And I gotta ask: how does the tenant know it's a bill from the fire-service? Surely the didn't open mail addressed to someone else???

gercoral

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

For fire brigade bills in general, it's property-owner who is liable. That's usually (not always) the landlord.

Now the LL or their insurance company may want to take action against the tenant for negligence (or whatever the legal term is for damaging someone else's property thru you own stupidity), and they may offer the option of paying the fire-service bill as a way to convince them not to pursue this line of thinking.

And I gotta ask: how does the tenant know it's a bill from the fire-service? Surely the didn't open mail addressed to someone else???

OYEah i was thinking the same, that the landlord may be liable. she doesn't mind paying for half of it but doesn't think she should pay the full bill.

yess, she did i guess she opened it without thinking. it was her apt address but C/O landlords name, so maybe she wasn't paying attention. she said she will contact the landlord to let him know about the letter

gercoral

Glass fused light wrote: »

Glass where on the balcony? What type of glass was it?

actaully not sure. i have a feeling they were empty beer bottles, but i can't be sure.

Glass fused light

gercoral wrote: »

OYEah i was thinking the same, that the landlord may be liable. she doesn't mind paying for half of it but doesn't think she should pay the full bill.

gercoral wrote: »

actaully not sure. i have a feeling they were empty beer bottles, but i can't be sure.

Well if it's beer bottles it was her actions which started the fire, it may be much cheaper for her to pay the bill than to have to move and loose the cost from her deposit anyway.

gercoral

Glass fused light wrote: »

Well if it's beer bottles it was her actions which started the fire, it may be much cheaper for her to pay the bill than to have to move and loose the cost from her deposit anyway.

yeah I get ya..

ok thanks to all posters for the advice and help!!! ill pass it on!

Wabbit Ears

gercoral wrote: »

which part isn't very believable?

The part where a wood on a balcony combusted of its own accord in the sun.


As you've since stated it was a fire caused by beer bottles on the balcony so the fire is the fault of the tenant. Who actually called out the fire brigade? I'm assuming the tenant did.


So.. If the tenant caused the fire and the tenant rang the fire brigade I cant see how anyone other than the tenant should pay for the fire brigade and, probably, they should also pay for the repairs.

Peregrinus

Forget about suing the tenant.

This is what you have fire insurance for, people. Claim on the fire insurance, and let the insurers worry about suing the tenant.

The charge, incidentally, is payable by the property owner. The fire service takes the view that what they are doing is protecting the property from fire; the charge for this goes to the person whose property the are protecting.

Eggs For Dinner

Peregrinus wrote: »

Forget about suing the tenant.


The charge, incidentally, is payable by the property owner. The fire service takes the view that what they are doing is protecting the property from fire; the charge for this goes to the person whose property the are protecting.

Fire Brigade charges are payable by the beneficiary of the service. If it is only damage to the property, then the landlord pays. If the fire brigade also assisted in minimising damage to contents belonging to an occupier, then the charge would be shared

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Happy4all wrote:

The stupid tenant. End of.....

A bit harsh...

gercoral

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

The part where a wood on a balcony combusted of its own accord in the sun.


As you've since stated it was a fire caused by beer bottles on the balcony so the fire is the fault of the tenant. Who actually called out the fire brigade? I'm assuming the tenant did.


So.. If the tenant caused the fire and the tenant rang the fire brigade I cant see how anyone other than the tenant should pay for the fire brigade and, probably, they should also pay for the repairs.

I don;t think I said that but anyway. I was telling teh story as I was given it. The tenant did not call. I think I mentioned a NEIGHBOUR did.

ted1

The tenant should pay. However the landlord probably has insurance to cover this as does the tenants insurance policy.

smurfjed

I'm curious, how much is the charge?

Peregrinus

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm curious, how much is the charge?

Varies, depending on the local authority which provides the fire service. Some do not charge for domestic call-outs; others have a flat call-out fee; still others have scales which may depend on the number of firefighters or fire tenders involved, the length of the call-out, whether it happens during normal working hours or outside them, etc.

But the charges are not trivial. Mayo County Council, for example, charges €150.00 if called to a domestic chimney fire, and €750.00 per hour for a call-out to any other domestic fire, and €750.00 per appliance per hour for all other call-outs.