Habitual Residency

Cathy bell

Hi all, hope u can help. Born in Derry, lived in Galway for 4 years where my daughter was born. Had to return to Derry due to circumstances. Always planned on returning to Galway after uni, but got sick and been here ever since. My daughter is now grown up and wants to go live and work in Galway (and also to be close to her step family). I also want to return to Galway as all my good friends are there and are essentially my family and my support network, but I'm still sick and will require state benefits. I also rely heavily on my daughter for help and support physically and need to live near her. Im worried about obtaining habitual residency, and whether they will recognize my real need to be there. I also cant live in the north anymore because of the aftermath of the troubles. Im really badly affected by it every day. Please help if u can. All and any advice welcome about habitual residency and if anyones been thru something similar, I wud luv to hear from you. Thanks so much everyone. Really apprec it. Its a pretty desperate situation, as I wud have to give up my benefits and house in north, before moving south and applying for hab res, not knowing if I will get it or not. Its a massive risk, because of my health

El Weirdo

I can't see an issue here.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/sw108.pdf (particularly the second page under "Right to Reside")

Glass fused light

You would need to find out if the UK benefits can be transferred as your habitual residence is the UK. You will have the right to move to Gaway but its not likely you would qualify for benefits from the Irish welfare system.

Cushie Butterfield

Your first port of call is nidirect, they’d be in a better position to advise you as regards whether your current benefits can continue to be paid/transferred & of what documentation/records you’d need from them: https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/contacts/contacts-az/disability-and-carers-service

Cathy bell

Hi, thanks everyone. not sure how to reply individually. When i first read ''right to reside'', i felt hopeful and knew that to be rightful. But when i read of ''centre of interest'', this is really where a lot of people are ruled out and have lost the case. I dont have siblings or close family in galway... though my non-dependant son is in the process of moving there and i do rely on him for a lot of help because of my health. Im really not sure if this will be taken into consideration. Have spoken to citizens info 4 times and they dont feel i will get hab res.
The law is not clear on the 5 points that are required to be met on ''centre of interest''. Its one adjuticating officer who decides your case and its at their own discretion. How will i know if they will be genuinely empathetic or realise there is a real family behind this plight. My mental health living here is hanging in the balance,,,, but will they recognise that? Will they listen or care?
I feel discriminated against because I am not well enough to work and also because of the part of Ireland I was born in. The law says that any EU person can come to Ireland to work... but the clause of hab res means that if you disabled you cannot come here to claim benefits.
Im an Irish citizen... but it counts for nothing because my body isnt healthy enough to work
Sickening... but I have to find a way to move forward on this..... Im struggling to find a way

splinter65

This is tricky. There’s no straight answer. You might sail through or you might get refused flat out. Mostly people coming from the UK are ok but that’s if you’re looking for Jobseekers but you are looking for Disability Allowance which is long term and free travel and fuel allowance and you’ll possibly be looking to be added to the housing list, applying for HAP, a medical card etc.
I wouldn’t take the chance myself.

Cathy bell

i appreciate your reply. i see what you mean that its prob easier for people wanting jobseekers. Its so hurtful because I have a disability that i might prob be denied access. Im already suffering all the time as it is. This is just more of that. i spend most of time wishing i was well as i would love to be working. I cant change that. This feels so lawfully wrong. I deserve the same chance as everyone else to build a life

splinter65

Cathy bell wrote: »

i appreciate your reply. i see what you mean that its prob easier for people wanting jobseekers. Its so hurtful because I have a disability that i might prob be denied access. Im already suffering all the time as it is. This is just more of that. i spend most of time wishing i was well as i would love to be working. I cant change that. This feels so lawfully wrong. I deserve the same chance as everyone else to build a life

It’s very sad I agree. And it’s possible that you could come to Galway and be successful in your application for benefits and allowances. I just wonder if it is worth you upping sticks and taking the risk of maybe being refused on the (not unreasonable) grounds that you have benefits and allowances in the UK and you should stay there.

Mrs OBumble

There are more issues than just habitual residency to be worrying about.

The Republic of Ireland currently has an enormous housing shortage, especially in cities like Dublin and Galway. You would not get council housing for years here. Private sector housing is also in very, very short supply. You would be extremely unlikely to get anywhere - unless your friends here are willing to accommodate you for a very long tim.

It's not the adjudicating officer's job to be genuinely empathetic or care. Their job is to listen, obtain documentation to support your story (eg you would need to have paperwork to prove you've closed all bank accounts, terminated your lease, got a receipt for moving all your belonging here) - and then make a determination based on the law and the available evidence.

As a UK citizen, your welfare is the UK's problem - even more so with Brexit looming.

The EU provides for freedom of movement for workers and their dependants.
But it's not a free-for-all. Countries do not routinely take on the burden of supporting non-contributing citizens from other counties. The only exception to this is when people flee situations of war/terror and claim refugee status. I don't know if anyone from the North has ever tried that here - but I suspect it would be very hard to prove. And you would have to live in a Direct Provision centre for months, possibly years, while going through the process.

Your best best is probably to ask your health-care professionals to review things with your daughter's departure, and see how that changes your care entitlements where you are currently living.

Carawaystick

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

As a UK citizen, your welfare is the UK's problem - even more so with Brexit looming.

But as the OP was born in Derry, they more likely are an Irish citizen, and might not be a uk citizen at all.

Mrs OBumble

Carawaystick wrote: »

But as the OP was born in Derry, they more likely are an Irish citizen, and might not be a uk citizen at all.

Interesting. How can someone born in the UK way-back-when not be a UK citizen? (Granted s/he might also have the right to Irish citizenship ...)

That said, I was thinking some more about this case, wondering if there were any other loopholes. I didn't get far, though. And it occurred to me that even Irish citizens can face the same issue that the OP has: just being born here does not automatically entitle you to access the welfare system. You need habitual residency. And if you have been working overseas for some years, you won't have it initially on your return, unless you can absolutely prove that you've cut ties to the other country.

splinter65

Carawaystick wrote: »

But as the OP was born in Derry, they more likely are an Irish citizen, and might not be a uk citizen at all.

Anyone born in Derry is both an Irish and a uk citizen and can hold both passports at the same time. However having Irish citizenship/passport does not mean that you fulfill HRC.
The fact that the OP has lived all her life except for 4 years in the UK means that as regards her entitlement to state financial support Ireland will tell her that it is the UKs responsibilty to see to her needs, not Ireland’s.
We simply cannot house and feed everyone who decides they want to come and live here. That would be ludicrous.

Water John

OP a little confused, your mention daughter who is a support to you moving to Galway but you say it's a son in another post.

Carawaystick

splinter65 wrote: »

Anyone born in Derry is both an Irish and a uk citizen and can hold both passports at the same time.

People from the north can be dual citizens, or citizens of Ireland only or citizens of the uk only.

@OBrumble, if the OP was born before '49, they would have been a subject, not a citizen of the uk
anyone alive born in Derry can renounce british citizenship and subject status
https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality

splinter65

Carawaystick wrote: »

People from the north can be dual citizens, or citizens of Ireland only or citizens of the uk only.

@OBrumble, if the OP was born before '49, they would have been a subject, not a citizen of the uk
anyone alive born in Derry can renounce british citizenship and subject status
https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality

I’m not sure if you are correcting me or not. When I say Derry I mean anywhere in the 6 counties. I used Derry as this is where the OP was born.
The OP has lived most of her life in the UK including up to the present.
I hope you wouldn’t suggest that renouncing her British citizenship would help her to establish HRC as citizenship of the claimant has no bearing whatsoever on the desicion.

Carawaystick

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m not sure if you are correcting me or not. When I say Derry I mean anywhere in the 6 counties. I used Derry as this is where the OP was born.
The OP has lived most of her life in the UK including up to the present.

You said that anyone born in Derry is a uk citizen, I just pointed out that they can be , or can be an irish citizen, or can be both. Mrs OBrumble said that the op was a uk citizen and the op's welfare was the uk's problem, which is not true.

Cathy bell

Thanks very much everybody. I have a lot to think about and info to gather. It may seem bleak but I can't give up. Galway is my home. I belong there. I don't know what route I will take. It may sound corny, but I have to keep my dreams alive. I won't survive it here. I'm moving out of real need, not simply because i want to. I find the term used in hrc 'drain on resources'' to be highly offensive and lawfully wrong. I am a human being and I contribute a lot to society. I would be a positive asset . I realise this none of this wil prob come into hrc but it should as every persons life circumstances are different unique. Yes I have a place set up to stay already.

Graces7

I am English and move d to Ireland in 2002,

I was on Incapacity ( ie Disability ) in the UK and Mobility Allowance and these simply continued when I moved.

In addition I qualified for the Household Benefit package and a medical card as the rates I was getting from the Uk were below what they are in Ireland.

When I reached UK retirement age the UK made the transfer from Incapacity to the Pension and my medical card etc stayed with me as did the other bits so that my income was at the accepted Irish level

The reciprocal arrangements were easy and fine OP ... I had no family etc in the UK so the Habitual Residency and Centre of Interest etc were easy to prove.

Never any question of changing nationality etc!

You need to get in touch with the relevant dept where you are? With me it was te Dept f Work and Pensions.