Portion of deposit not returned.

aloooof

Hi,

We've recently moved out of an apartment and the agent has just informed us the landlord has kept a portion of the deposit to clean the apartment. We left it in very good condition (with pictures taken) but the agent has mentioned one or 2 things (e.g. freezer defrosting) that need to be done.

It's a small enough amount, so I'm tempted to leave it go, but are we entitled to query this / clean it ourselves to get full deposit / look for receipts for the amount deducted?

Any advice appreciated.

Call me Al

For the average vacating renters a landlord shouldn't need professional cleaners in to solely defrost the freezer. I mean if its that bad he'd be buying a new one. He should be getting the house cleaned as a matter of course anyway.

So yes, unless you're talking something like €20, i would argue my corner with the agent first. Especially since you've got photos to prove you left the house clean behind you. Reasonable wear and tear is just that. It's not a licence for a landlord to try to pull the proverbial.

dudara

From the RTB website

This deposit is held by the landlord and is returned at the end of the tenancy to the tenant, once no rent arrears, bills, taxes or charges are due or damage beyond normal wear and tear has occured.

A landlord must also be able to furnish receipts to justify the costs withheld from the deposit. Defrosting a freezer doesn't sound like a valid reason to withhold part of a deposit. I'd ask for a breakdown of the costs and justification.

garhjw

dudara wrote: »

From the RTB website



A landlord must also be able to furnish receipts to justify the costs withheld from the deposit. Defrosting a freezer doesn't sound like a valid reason to withhold part of a deposit. I'd ask for a breakdown of the costs and justification.

Totally agree. I've had to deduct from deposit for having apartments cleaned. I always send the receipt to the tenant whether they have a problem with it or not.

thomas 123

garhjw wrote: »

Totally agree. I've had to deduct from deposit for having apartments cleaned. I always send the receipt to the tenant whether they have a problem with it or not.

This is the problem with having one party in charge of a deposit. I wish we had a scheme where the deposit could be held by the government and the landlord has to justify the expenses properly.

I have been stung for E350-400 for one slat being broken on a timber bed after I rented for 2 years.

That being said if you leave it worse than you got it you deserve some of your deposit taken.

spaceHopper

wait till you get the rest of it back then if you are sure you won't ever need a reference from them again ask for evidence and receipts that the work was carried out or the remainder of the money with in 10 working days or you'll rtb and small claims court them.

If you will ever want a reference from them the suck it up

4ensic15

Complain to the RTB. Cleaning comes under normal wear and tear and a deduction can't be made for it.

garhjw

4ensic15 wrote: »

Complain to the RTB. Cleaning comes under normal wear and tear and a deduction can't be made for it.

I thought an apartment had to be returned in the same condition it was given allowing for wear and tear of course.

However, I’ve had situations where carpets were ridiculously dirty and had to get an oven cleaned by specialists it was so filthy. That’s not normal wear and tear.

ZENER

garhjw wrote: »

I thought an apartment had to be returned in the same condition it was given allowing for wear and tear of course.

However, I’ve had situations where carpets were ridiculously dirty and had to get an oven cleaned by specialists it was so filthy. That’s not normal wear and tear.

Indeed ! There is often a huge difference between what a tenant thinks is clean and what is actually clean. Usually when you point it out to them they accept it.

If the shower door was sparkling when you moved in, it should be the same when you leave. Oven likewise, microwave, presses and drawers the same.

Mattresses are another area for debate. If a protector is fitted then it should be left on, if you take it off and the mattress gets soiled then you're responsible !

Normall wear and tear would apply to walls and carpets or maybe work surfaces but wear and tear is nothing to do with cleanliness. Some tenants have difficulty with this.

Ken

aloooof

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm going to go ahead and question it. I can accept the defrosting wasn't complete but everything else was left in exceptionally clean condition.

aloooof

Just to flag a follow-up on how this ended; I questioned this, the agent was unable to provide receipts / invoices for the cleaning and they eventually backed down, and I got the amount back (after a fair bit of back and forth).

Thanks for the advice on here. For anyone else in a similar situation, it's definitely worth standing your ground,

4ensic15

garhjw wrote: »

I thought an apartment had to be returned in the same condition it was given allowing for wear and tear of course.

However, I’ve had situations where carpets were ridiculously dirty and had to get an oven cleaned by specialists it was so filthy. That’s not normal wear and tear.

That is repair, not cleaning.

Markcheese

It sounded a bit odd... Who would you get in to defrost a freezer...? Admittedly it could take hours of waiting for it to fully defrost.. But if there were no receipts you were in the right...

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

That is repair, not cleaning.

That's crap. Cleaning a filthy carpet is not repair, it is cleaning a filthy carpet.

Property should be vacated in same condition as it was first occupied, how could cleaning filthy carpets and ovens be repair?

Dirt is not wear and tear, it's dirt.

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

That's crap. Cleaning a filthy carpet is not repair, it is cleaning a filthy carpet.

Property should be vacated in same condition as it was first occupied, how could cleaning filthy carpets and ovens be repair?

Dirt is not wear and tear, it's dirt.

If it needs specialist cleaning, it is a repair.

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

If it needs specialist cleaning, it is a repair.

No. Specialist cleaners clean carpets/ovens etc, they don't repair holes in carpets/sofas/floors or repair doors on ovens. Removing grease from an oven or caked on dirt from a carpet isn't repairing it. The clue is in the name, cleaners, not repairers.

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

No. Specialist cleaners clean carpets/ovens etc, they don't repair holes in carpets/sofas/floors or repair doors on ovens. Removing grease from an oven or caked on dirt from a carpet isn't repairing it. The clue is in the name, cleaners, not repairers.

The clue is in the adjective, specialist.

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

The clue is in the adjective, specialist.

Actually "specialist" is a noun, used as an adjective before a noun indicates expertise in a field, in this case cleaning.

MayoSalmon

Say goodbye to whatever amount the landlord has taken...

File a dispute with the prtb but be prepared to wait months to get it all heard.

JCX BXC

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Say goodbye to whatever amount the landlord has taken...

File a dispute with the prtb but be prepared to wait months to get it all heard.

You didn't actually read the thread did you?

MayoSalmon

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Say goodbye to whatever amount the landlord has taken...

File a dispute with the prtb but be prepared to wait months to get it all heard.

Read the thread

Fol20

spaceHopper wrote: »

wait till you get the rest of it back then if you are sure you won't ever need a reference from them again ask for evidence and receipts that the work was carried out or the remainder of the money with in 10 working days or you'll rtb and small claims court them.

If you will ever want a reference from them the suck it up

That is not how the process works. You go to the RTB and they will judicate on the matter

Fol20

Markcheese wrote: »

It sounded a bit odd... Who would you get in to defrost a freezer...? Admittedly it could take hours of waiting for it to fully defrost.. But if there were no receipts you were in the right...

He could probably bill you for petrol maybe as he might need to drive back and fourth in waiting for you to drive.

The_Conductor

4ensic15 wrote: »

If it needs specialist cleaning, it is a repair.

How on earth do you come to this point of view?
Lots of things need specialist cleaning- or indeed deep cleaning- and are simply that- cleaning- not a repair or a replacement.........

Its entirely appropriate to use specialist cleaning companies- or indeed deep cleaning- if and when its required- however, its mind boggling that you'd consider this to be some manner of a repair.............

There are numerous companies setup out there- many of quite recent vintage- who specialise in cleaning rental units- and can be hired by either tenants or landlords- at either the start or elapse of tenancies. Its standard practice among anyone who is running a rental property professionally- and its only fair for incoming tenants.

Ideally- Ireland should move away from its furnished letting model- and towards the bare rentals that dominate on the continent- where you can do as you will with a rental property (nothing structural obviously)- providing you give it a fresh coat of paint and return it to the landlord- as you got it- at the end of the tenancy.

The whole setup in Ireland and the UK- is an alien construct- that needs to be brought into the 21st century.

Fol20

4ensic15 wrote: »

If it needs specialist cleaning, it is a repair.

I think the overall majority think otherwise. If it needs a specialist repair, then its a repair.

If something is broken or not working as desired, then it is a repair, dirt means its still working however it may no longer be hygienic.