Federal Ireland

Jeff Devoy

If there was a united Ireland, do you think it would be a good or bad idea for Ireland to adopt a federal system rather to the current unitary system we have in place? It would mean a setup similar to Australia or Canada where there are four provinces, Connaught, Leinster, Munster and Ulster, with a designated capital territory elsewhere. It would also mean that either the President or Taoiseach/Tánaiste would go and be replaced by one or the other.

There would be local police forces, Connaught Police, Leinster Police, Munster Police and Ulster Police as well as a Capital Territory police. AGS would become the equivalent of the Civil Guard or Gendarmerie and there would be a separate Irish Federal Police (IFP), the equivalent of the FBI.

Would you be in support of the above?

Kermit.de.frog

In a United Ireland the north should just be absorbed in to the rest of the country in my opinion.

TheValeyard

Were a small country, we could just use a Unitary system and devolve a large portion of control to the North to run their own affairs like they do now.

Collie D

Canada and Australia are vast places where it makes sense. Ireland is about 30k square miles. Too much bureaucracy for no valid reason.

Ten of Swords

You'd have to restore the 5th historical province of Mide

Obviously

stimpson

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Were a small country, we could just use a Unitary system and devolve a large portion of control to the North to run their own affairs like they do now.

You’re Hilarious!

Laois_Man

OP hasn't really highlighted any advantages of this nonsense!

Chiparus

If there were a federal system , given the demographics Sinn fein could be in power in the north for years.

pleas advice

thats NUTS

super_furry

Monumental waste of time and resources. The country’s far too small for that.

Ten of Swords

pleas advice wrote: »

thats NUTS

Why is Tipperary shaded like that? Is it that South East and South West claim it or (slightly more plausible) neither want it?

Jeff Devoy

Jeff Devoy wrote: »

If there was a united Ireland, do you think it would be a good or bad idea for Ireland to adopt a federal system rather to the current unitary system we have in place? It would mean a setup similar to Australia or Canada where there are four provinces, Connaught, Leinster, Munster and Ulster, with a designated capital territory elsewhere. It would also mean that either the President or Taoiseach/Tánaiste would go and be replaced by one or the other.

There would be local police forces, Connaught Police, Leinster Police, Munster Police and Ulster Police as well as a Capital Territory police. AGS would become the equivalent of the Civil Guard or Gendarmerie and there would be a separate Irish Federal Police (IFP), the equivalent of the FBI.

Would you be in support of the above?

If we could use the old Health Board as an example, before the HSE we had the SW Health Board, the Southern Health Board, the NW Health board etc.

We only have a population of approx 4 million.

The Greater Manchester area has a population of 2.5 million and it had 1 health board under the NHS where it ran 9 hospitals.

As a poster above mentioned, it would be too much bureaucracy for a small country.

dxhound2005

Jeff Devoy wrote: »

If there was a united Ireland, do you think it would be a good or bad idea for Ireland to adopt a federal system rather to the current unitary system we have in place? It would mean a setup similar to Australia or Canada where there are four provinces, Connaught, Leinster, Munster and Ulster, with a designated capital territory elsewhere. It would also mean that either the President or Taoiseach/Tánaiste would go and be replaced by one or the other.

There would be local police forces, Connaught Police, Leinster Police, Munster Police and Ulster Police as well as a Capital Territory police. AGS would become the equivalent of the Civil Guard or Gendarmerie and there would be a separate Irish Federal Police (IFP), the equivalent of the FBI.

Would you be in support of the above?

As a consideration to the people joining us, use the term Northern Ireland for that part of the country. And to keep things logical we could have Southern Ireland, Eastern Ireland and Western Ireland as well. Unless there is some objection to the term Northern Ireland.

bilbot79

Jeff Devoy wrote: »

If there was a united Ireland, do you think it would be a good or bad idea for Ireland to adopt a federal system rather to the current unitary system we have in place? It would mean a setup similar to Australia or Canada where there are four provinces, Connaught, Leinster, Munster and Ulster, with a designated capital territory elsewhere. It would also mean that either the President or Taoiseach/Tánaiste would go and be replaced by one or the other.

There would be local police forces, Connaught Police, Leinster Police, Munster Police and Ulster Police as well as a Capital Territory police. AGS would become the equivalent of the Civil Guard or Gendarmerie and there would be a separate Irish Federal Police (IFP), the equivalent of the FBI.

Would you be in support of the above?

Slow down mate. One day at a time.

Atoms for Peace

How about abolishing CoCo's and replacing them with 5 federal authorities?

Jeff Devoy

Laois_Man wrote: »

OP hasn't really highlighted any advantages of this nonsense!

Localised police forces, devolved power and economy to the separate provinces...

A plan not all that dissimilar to Éire Nua.

BTW, where would the capital be? Athlone is the Éire Nua proposal, but there are others, including:

Portarlington
Cullyhanna
Drogheda
Maynooth
Carrickmacross
Coleraine
Douglas (if the Isle of Man ever became part of Ireland;))

Seriously though, where would be a good spot for a capital region?

Abuja, Canberra, Ottawa and D.C are all small cities compared to the largest cities in their respective countries. What would Ireland's equivalent capital city be?

Chris_Heilong

Collie D wrote: »

Canada and Australia are vast places where it makes sense. Ireland is about 30k square miles. Too much bureaucracy for no valid reason.

Well, we are still bigger than Moldova, Belgium, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, Estonia,Albania and Montenegro as far as land mass for the whole Ireland just to give some perspective,

We are only small in population compared to other countries.

But I agree we can not be compared to the mega giants and would be better off with just one government as is.

Collie D

Jeff Devoy wrote: »

Seriously though, where would be a good spot for a capital region?

Abuja, Canberra, Ottawa and D.C are all small cities compared to the largest cities in their respective countries. What would Ireland's equivalent capital city be?

Tara

Hector Bellend

Ireland is too small to be federal.

The turkeys we have are bad enough

Ten of Swords

Jeff Devoy wrote: »

Seriously though, where would be a good spot for a capital region?

Just throwing it out there but... Dublin

dxhound2005

Jerusalem.

For Forks Sake

Jeff Devoy wrote: »

Seriously though, where would be a good spot for a capital region?

Abuja, Canberra, Ottawa and D.C are all small cities compared to the largest cities in their respective countries. What would Ireland's equivalent capital city be?

Nobber.

Jeff Devoy

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Just throwing it out there but... Dublin

In the vast majority of federal states the capital isn't the largest city.

Pauliedragon

I wouldn't look to Australia for guidence for a federal system. Big country yes but 98% of the population live on 2% of the land. 3 cities on the East coast contain nearly half the population. Constant bickering between state and federal goverments including right now, energy policies, gang problems in Melbourne, which states get their fair share of GST (Aussie version or VAT), who pays for roads etc, and so much tit for tat governemnts spend more time fighting each other rather than running the show. It's a level of government they don't need.

Collie D

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Well, we are still bigger than Moldova, Belgium, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, Estonia,Albania and Montenegro as far as land mass for the whole Ireland just to give some perspective,

We are only small in population compared to other countries.

But I agree we can not be compared to the mega giants and would be better off with just one government as is.

Do any of those countries have a federal system? I think I know the answer but still a genuine question.

I think Bosnia does but that's probably to do with their recent history.

Jeff Devoy

Deleted User wrote: »

If we could use the old Health Board as an example, before the HSE we had the SW Health Board, the Southern Health Board, the NW Health board etc.

We only have a population of approx 4 million.

The Greater Manchester area has a population of 2.5 million and it had 1 health board under the NHS where it ran 9 hospitals.

As a poster above mentioned, it would be too much bureaucracy for a small country.

I would suggest an Irish National Health Service (INHS), identical to the NHS in the UK in every single way.

It would be an end to the scandal ridden HSE and would be for the entire island. It also means the unionists in the north wouldn't lose out on the NHS system.

The Rape of Lucretia

Is that a united Ireland as part of the UK, or independent of it ? OP unclear.
A single devolved parliament in Dublin with about 100 Irish MPs, and about 50 MPs in Westminster would probably work well.

CrankyHaus

Ireland's far too small, in size and population, for a federal system.

What's the nearest example? Germany?
Even if some of the German Lander are geographically small their populations range from nearly 700,000 to over 17 M.

Unitary state with empowered local authorities, with genuine local taxation rather than kicking property tax up to Dublin to divvy out based on electoral arithmetic, is the way to go.

I think the UK system of Council tax in return for decent local services works far better than our shambles.

TheBoyConor

Here's a better idea.

Why don't we stop talking through our arses and leave the country as it is.

Annasopra

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

In a United Ireland the north should just be absorbed in to the rest of the country in my opinion.

I dont think that would work. I think the assembly would need to stay in place.

DChancer

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Were a small country, we could just use a Unitary system and devolve a large portion of control to the North to run their own affairs like they do now.

Then surely greater Dublin should also have devolved power and the Cork region
Why should the north get any special status?

pleas advice

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Here's a better idea.

Why don't we stop talking through our arses and leave the country as it is.

was it for this?

snotboogie

The size argument doesn't hold; Belgium is a Federal country, Austria is a federal county, Switzerland is a federal country, these would be a United Ireland peers in Europe in terms of population and geography size. 
The benefits of federalism would be; a soft political landing for the North in Ireland with Stormont continuing to operate, a devolution of the mostly useless bloated county and city councils in favour of a far more slimmed down and consequential federal government to handle local issues, decentralization of power away from Dublin. Most free prosperous countries either Federalize or have some form of devolution of government away from the commercial capital or a form or regionalized government; The Netherlands, New Zealand, Spain, The UK, Italy, France, Finland and Denmark all do this. Ireland is almost unique in its centralization of government among developed first world nations.

Taytoland

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Here's a better idea.

Why don't we stop talking through our arses and leave the country as it is.

Most sensible post on this discussion.

daheff

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Were a small country, we could just use a Unitary system and devolve a large portion of control to the North to run their own affairs like they do now.

as long as we don't have to pay for them.

UK can subvent them for 100s of years until they can stand on their own 2 feet as far as i'm concerned. They caused the mess up there....so they can pay for it as long as its a mess.

endacl

We could bring back the regional health boards!

suicide_circus

Collie D wrote: »

Canada and Australia are vast places where it makes sense. Ireland is about 30k square miles. Too much bureaucracy for no valid reason.

Austria is the same size as ireland and has 9 federal states. not saying it would work here but the size isn't necessarily the barrier

Franz Von Peppercorn

A federal or devolved system is the only way to run Ireland post reunification.

piplip87

Yes it would allow different regions spend money on what is needed in that region. Could revitalise parts of the country. It would also lead to the national parliament dealing with national issues rather than the parish pump

snotboogie

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Ireland's far too small, in size and population, for a federal system.

What's the nearest example? Germany?
Even if some of the German Lander are geographically small their populations range from nearly 700,000 to over 17 M.

Unitary state with empowered local authorities, with genuine local taxation rather than kicking property tax up to Dublin to divvy out based on electoral arithmetic, is the way to go.

I think the UK system of Council tax in return for decent local services works far better than our shambles.

Switzerland? Belgium? Austria?

RobertKK

A federal system like Switzerland would be good.