Hiab or Crane over house

karlitob

Hi all,

Very narrow side access - 600mm at widest so dont think I can fit a microdigger down the back. Someone suggested a hiab or crane.

Would appreciate any advice, comments, insights into this process and ball park costs.

Normal 3 bed semi d with single story garage the house is extended (single story) by 2 metres. There are some electricity lines above the garage.


Thanks all.

tradesman

What do you need the digger for?

karlitob

tradesman wrote: »

What do you need the digger for?

Garden clearance. Lots of trees, bushes, patio and dig foundations for a party wall.

Thanks.

heroics

I thought you could get micro digger that fits through 600mm

something like this

seamus

Looking online, the basic issues are that a hiab won't get it over a two-storey house, and even a single-storey could be an issue depending on size. Hiring a sectional crane will set you back €1,500, more if you need a permit.

We're getting work done at the moment and we were talking about digger options with the builder, pointing out that a mini-digger would fit through the house. He was of the opinion that it was too small/weak for digging foundations anyway, it's only good for digging loose soil and lifting rubble around.

Probably too light for ripping up trees and bushes as well.

Is doing it by hand out of the question?

Bigus

Mini/ micro digger will do serious work , above builder mustn't have experience of them.

karlitob

heroics wrote: »

I thought you could get micro digger that fits through 600mm

something like this

I spotted that alright. The tracks are 580wide and I think the bars above are 620 wide but will need to investigate. There are pipes on my wall that I would be nervous about hitting but I suppose they are only plastic piping and could be fixed if I damage them.

What’s the power like with one of those?

karlitob

seamus wrote: »

Looking online, the basic issues are that a hiab won't get it over a two-storey house, and even a single-storey could be an issue depending on size. Hiring a sectional crane will set you back €1,500, more if you need a permit.

We're getting work done at the moment and we were talking about digger options with the builder, pointing out that a mini-digger would fit through the house. He was of the opinion that it was too small/weak for digging foundations anyway, it's only good for digging loose soil and lifting rubble around.

Probably too light for ripping up trees and bushes as well.

Is doing it by hand out of the question?

I had a read that a mini digger wouldn’t be best on a suspension floor. Digging by hand has gotten me to this point - the garden is just too big but with too much to clear.

karlitob

Bigus wrote: »

Mini/ micro digger will do serious work , above builder mustn't have experience of them.

Thanks for that. I need to dig foundations for a boundary wall and possible for a shed/cabin/news out the back (I know I don’t need it but would like it). And I’ve a lot of trees - nothing big, like cordylines. And a whack of garden clearance and levelling to do.

Might break up the old patio while I’m at it so I can lay a new one.

Would that half tonne micro digger be up to it.

It’s Yamdar SV05

CJhaughey

karlitob wrote: »

Thanks for that. I need to dig foundations for a boundary wall and possible for a shed/cabin/news out the back (I know I don’t need it but would like it). And I’ve a lot of trees - nothing big, like cordylines. And a whack of garden clearance and levelling to do.

Might break up the old patio while I’m at it so I can lay a new one.

Would that half tonne micro digger be up to it.

It’s Yamdar SV05

A micro digger will keep going long after a manually operated shovel gives up.
Sure we all know people that have shifted tonnes of material by hand but those days are gone.
A micro digger bucket is about 4 human shovel loads, they can be piped for a breaker as well, just be careful that there is nothing under the patio that could be damaged by the breaker.

tradesman

Is there any way you could knock a section of garden wall to gain access & rebuild it? Can you post some pics of the area so we could possibly give better advice?

karlitob

CJhaughey wrote: »

A micro digger will keep going long after a manually operated shovel gives up.
Sure we all know people that have shifted tonnes of material by hand but those days are gone.
A micro digger bucket is about 4 human shovel loads, they can be piped for a breaker as well, just be careful that there is nothing under the patio that could be damaged by the breaker.

Thanks again. Take the point.

Have they the power to get tree roots up. Also previous owner buried a bit of foundation for a green house so I’ll have to dig that up too. could it do that.

karlitob

tradesman wrote: »

Is there any way you could knock a section of garden wall to gain access & rebuild it? Can you post some pics of the area so we could possibly give better advice?

Same problem the other side actually!!

Will try to get pics up. Would a micro digger be ok on a suspension floor if I brought it through the house.

colm_mcm

karlitob wrote: »

Same problem the other side actually!!

Will try to get pics up. Would a micro digger be ok on a suspension floor if I brought it through the house.

They weigh about 1000kg AFAIK

karlitob

colm_mcm wrote: »

They weigh about 1000kg AFAIK

Thanks. Presume that’s an emphatic ‘NO!’

karlitob

tradesman wrote: »

Is there any way you could knock a section of garden wall to gain access & rebuild it? Can you post some pics of the area so we could possibly give better advice?

Not much space to work with.

Wildly Boaring

600mm is probably too small for any excavator. Be worth dropping in to decent hire place with a tape. But they're usually designed to go through a doorway at a min.

Only a massive and massively expensive hiab will cross a house.

A crane will do it. You'd be looking at 2 hires. One in and one out. 8 hrs min hire and rate will vary on size. Measure how far from middle of road to a the garden at closest point. Get weight of digger. Ring crane hire people. They'll come out and check before sending it if you're actually going ahead. Won't be 1500 a time but will be probably for the 2 lifts.

I've done deals to fit in my lift when crane on route to somewhere. Got the 40 mins work for 2hrs hire

Technically you'd want a permit. I've closed plenty roads without one for one lift (looking at 30 to 40 mins) is it doable? Talk to neighbours if an estate. Go for 5am if in the country and there's a route around. Any crane will be the width of 2 lanes easy. At least

Glass fused light

Have a look at the neighbours gardens any access points through them in exchange for some digger time?

Wildly Boaring

Also agree with the builder. Anything below 1.5t or 2t no use for digging anything much

karlitob

Glass fused light wrote: »

Have a look at the neighbours gardens any access points through them in exchange for some digger time?

Thanks. Same issue the other side

karlitob

Glass fused light wrote: »

Have a look at the neighbours gardens any access points through them in exchange for some digger time?

Thanks. Same issue the other side

karlitob

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Also agree with the builder. Anything below 1.5t or 2t no use for digging anything much

Thanks for that. Take the point - surely they’re better than by hand. If I can’t get anything mechanical in it would have to be manual?

gctest50

You could knock out the back wall of the garage

*Ask engineer how to do this - a real live living breathing engineer

Then you could put a nice wide door in the back of it

karlitob

gctest50 wrote: »

You could knock out the back wall of the garage

*Ask engineer how to do this - a real live living breathing engineer

Then you could put a nice wide door in the back of it

Land locked I’m afraid. Only the side for access or over the house.

CJhaughey

Those micro diggers are surprisingly powerful for what they are

Lumen

The problem with all heavy machinery is soil compaction, so stay off any areas you intend to plant with anything other than grass. Even then you'll probably be compacting areas you want roots to grow into.

Using a digger to remove bushes and trees is a bit pointless. Just cut to ground level and let nature do its job. Soil quality will be better as the decomposing roots create drainage channels and other reasons. Apply suitable chemical before or after if it's something that can regrow from stump and you don't want to have to go at it again.

karlitob

Lumen wrote: »

The problem with all heavy machinery is soil compaction, so stay off any areas you intend to plant with anything other than grass. Even then you'll probably be compacting areas you want roots to grow into.

Using a digger to remove bushes and trees is a bit pointless. Just cut to ground level and let nature do its job. Soil quality will be better as the decomposing roots create drainage channels and other reasons. Apply suitable chemical before or after if it's something that can regrow from stump and you don't want to have to go at it again.

Not sure that it’s pointless.

There are a lot of trees and bushes on the party line (they are the party line in effect) and in the area that I want to build a shed. So they need to be removed for foundations - 100 ft is a lot by hand.

I don’t want to use chemicals to take out stumps and even if they did work - though not convinced. It would take a lot of time for it to work.

Lumen

karlitob wrote: »

Not sure that it’s pointless.

There are a lot of trees and bushes on the party line (they are the party line in effect) and in the area that I want to build a shed. So they need to be removed for foundations - 100 ft is a lot by hand.

I don’t want to use chemicals to take out stumps and even if they did work - though not convinced. It would take a lot of time for it to work.

The chemicals aren't to remove roots, they're to stop regrowth (if necessary).

But you don't want roots under foundations, even dead ones, as they decompose to leave voids which will cause settlement problems. Most roots are in the topsoil as opposed to subsoil, and you need to remove topsoil anyway if you're doing construction.

I was talking more about garden clearance in general, where the objective is to clear for gardening purposes as opposed to construction. In that case soil compaction is a problem (as evidenced by all the people who have moved into a new build and find their lawn turns into a boggy mess).

hesker

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Also agree with the builder. Anything below 1.5t or 2t no use for digging anything much

Have experience with a mini digger digging back garden. Grand on loose soil but when it catches tree roots or big stones you just end up lifting the front of the digger off the ground.

karlitob

hesker wrote: »

Have experience with a mini digger digging back garden. Grand on loose soil but when it catches tree roots or big stones you just end up lifting the front of the digger off the ground.

Thanks for that. Very disappointing to hear. By hand it is!

Calahonda52

hesker wrote: »

Have experience with a mini digger digging back garden. Grand on loose soil but when it catches tree roots or big stones you just end up lifting the front of the digger off the ground.

That may well be the case but it does do a lot of the grunt work: move soil, load wheelbarrows or a mini dumper if he rents one.
Mini dumper would work well with a Ro-Ro skip: just drive in the back!

For dealing with roots, they will need to be cut with a shark saw or con-saw or similar.
Karl, would not see the mini digger as the sole weapon here so don't dismiss it yet

karlitob

Calahonda52 wrote: »

That may well be the case but it does do a lot of the grunt work: move soil, load wheelbarrows or a mini dumper if he rents one.
Mini dumper would work well with a Ro-Ro skip: just drive in the back!

For dealing with roots, they will need to be cut with a shark saw or con-saw or similar.
Karl, would not see the mini digger as the sole weapon here so don't dismiss it yet

Thanks for that. To be honest I’m at a bit of a loss now - not sure what to do. But I take your point! Not the only tool in the drawer.

Calahonda52

karlitob wrote: »

Thanks for that. To be honest I’m at a bit of a loss now - not sure what to do. But I take your point! Not the only tool in the drawer.

Any pics of the trees etc to be removed plus the party wall.
Also, does it all go out the side gate.
Key thing with trees is not to cut the trunks short, leave as long as possible so as to get max leverage, maybe using a 1.5 or 2 tonnes chain hoist, to keep tension on the roots while they are cut: works really well.

quietsailor

karlitob wrote: »

Hi all,

Very narrow side access - 600mm at widest so dont think I can fit a microdigger down the back. Someone suggested a hiab or crane.

Would appreciate any advice, comments, insights into this process and ball park costs.

Normal 3 bed semi d with single story garage the house is extended (single story) by 2 metres. There are some electricity lines above the garage.


Thanks all.

Can you google map your house and take a screen shot so the location is private - someone on here might see something you've missed

karlitob

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Any pics of the trees etc to be removed plus the party wall.
Also, does it all go out the side gate.
Key thing with trees is not to cut the trunks short, leave as long as possible so as to get max leverage, maybe using a 1.5 or 2 tonnes chain hoist, to keep tension on the roots while they are cut: works really well.

Will try. Like taking a picture of the amazon rainforest.

Had planned to use a hi-lift jack and chain for that until someone mentioned the microdigger. I suppose the same could be done with the digger as the jack. The jack has 3t of lift I think.

Calahonda52

have you considered renting a decent garden shredder...

karlitob

Calahonda52 wrote: »

have you considered renting a decent garden shredder...

I have but the focus is on garden clearance as I) I’d need a massive one with all the trees and the volume of stuff to clear and ii) because of the narrow access I can’t bring the shredder down the back and I have to lug everything to the front of the house by hand. Will prob get a skip.

jmrc

skip and shredder, mulch everything into the skip.
those micro diggers are great in the right hands, someone with a bit of experience like.

hesker

Calahonda52 wrote: »

That may well be the case but it does do a lot of the grunt work: move soil, load wheelbarrows or a mini dumper if he rents one.
Mini dumper would work well with a Ro-Ro skip: just drive in the back!

For dealing with roots, they will need to be cut with a shark saw or con-saw or similar.
Karl, would not see the mini digger as the sole weapon here so don't dismiss it yet

Don't get me wrong. It's definitely worth it for digging soil up and will save lots of time and effort. Just for tree roots I can't see it helping much.
I dug about 5 fairly big tree roots out of back garden last year by hand. Tough job. A couple came out fairly easy. One was a beast with a central root going straight down.

Lumen

Large single roots are easy with the right hand tools, e.g. 5ft crowbar and pickaxe.

It's the thousands of small ones that will drive you insane.

Calahonda52

hesker wrote: »

Don't get me wrong. It's definitely worth it for digging soil up and will save lots of time and effort. Just for tree roots I can't see it helping much.
I dug about 5 fairly big tree roots out of back garden last year by hand. Tough job. A couple came out fairly easy. One was a beast with a central root going straight down.

100%, lets see the picture from the OP

Johnnyhpipe

Where is the skip? How do you intend to fill/lift that?

Calahonda52

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

Where is the skip? How do you intend to fill/lift that?

skip will be on the road so mega work with the barrow, unless he can get a mini dumper

seamus

Lumen wrote: »

Large single roots are easy with the right hand tools, e.g. 5ft crowbar and pickaxe.

It's the thousands of small ones that will drive you insane.

Can depend on the trees too.
I had a row of about 15 Griselinia hedges at the back taking up a chunk of garden. Hefty enough work, but I found that if I stripped it right back so there was just nothing but about 1-1.5 metres of trunk left, then I could use bodyweight and leverage to get them up. Though a few smacks with a flat bladed shovel and a tiny bit of sawing was sometimes necessary.

Annoying work, but managed to get almost all of them (a couple are still in an inaccessible place) out of the ground inside a day.

blackbox

I had a medium sized tree (cherry) that I had cut to the ground and I couldn't get the roots up even using a JCB.

You need to cut them about a metre from the ground so that you have enough trunk to be able to rock them loose.