What to do about other people's crap work...

Risteard81

I'm sure we've all seen installations where nearly everything appears to have been installed incorrectly, seemingly with absolutely no knowledge of the Wiring Rules. Obviously much of this can be corrected.

However, for example, where SWA cable has been bought in the north or online from England then - where three-core cable has been used for a single phase installation - there will be issues with core colours. (For those who don't know, the British Standard SWA will have the core colours in the phase colours as it is originally designed for use with a three-phase circuit not requiring a neutral, with the armour as the cpc.)

So if we have that installed in the 26-Counties then what can we do about it (short of replacing the cable) as ET101 does not permit (except in very limited circumstances) for core colours to be remarked?

2011

The issue with the core colors is routinely ignored and heat shrink applied, but this isn’t that serious IMHO. I would be much more concerned if a cable was undersized and I would be far more likely to land myself in hot water if the cables I was allowing to be installed were not CPR certified (Dca at least). I am aware of some contractors getting in serious bother for using non CPR certified cabling.

Many of the sites I work on were wired using the correct colors of that time but the phase colors have changed more than once since, so what do you do then? Some may argue that it would be safer to keep with the existing phase colors so that the 1st phase is always the red phase.

Regarding 3 core SWA: I normally use the for motors fed from a VSD of up to 30kW and run a separate CPC once the cable run is no more than 75m. Installing a 4 core SWA on a VSD is not permitted as this can cause harmonic issues.

Risteard81

Personally I think heatshrink is a sensible way to deal with it. Unfortunately the Rules are (in my opinion) too prescriptive here and essentially leave you with no way of correcting this if the wrong colours were used at the time of installation.

Far more serious is how unaware many appear to be that the whole premise of SWA cable is that the armour is earthed using proprietary glands and certainly not left floating with no connection back to the MET!

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

Personally I think heatshrink is a sensible way to deal with it. Unfortunately the Rules are (in my opinion) too prescriptive here and essentially leave you with no way of correcting this if the wrong colours were used at the time of installation.

Why would you be connecting someone else’s cables?

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

Risteard81 wrote: »

Personally I think heatshrink is a sensible way to deal with it. Unfortunately the Rules are (in my opinion) too prescriptive here and essentially leave you with no way of correcting this if the wrong colours were used at the time of installation.

Why would you be connecting someone else’s cables?

The obvious example is replacement of a Distribution Board.

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

The obvious example is replacement of a Distribution Board.

So why not connect the cables with the wrong coloured cores and write on the cert that you didn’t install the cables?
Naturally you would have to ensure that the circuits safe to connect (passed all electrical tests, not damaged etc...).
Unless you are rewiring the entire installation you can’t be expected to take ownership of everything.

If you are only paid to replace the distribution board then cabling with the wrong coloured cores are outside of your scope.

Otherwise nobody wins; you loose the work, and the customer has to retain the existing distribution board (possibly noncompliant / in poor condition) as the cost of replacing the SWAs is cost prohibitive.

Risteard81

Yes I tend to agree that this is the only realistic option.

Tuco88

I agree with the heat shrink, nothing wrong imo. Silly rule.

4 core cable is the same. 3 phase and Neutral, you will see the Neutral sleeved as Earth for DOL motors done here. Its labeled at the drawer also.When sleeved a few mm of the old colour is shown (Make it obvious).

Reminds me.
If you are familiar with old ATEX equipment cast iron gear, J.B for supply/Switch so on... It was a mixed grill with random extras. Lights done in 3 phase.

Red, Yellow, Blue. Black(N)
Brown, Red , Yellow. Blue(N)
Brown, Black , Grey Blue(N) (New at the time)

Red and Black 2 core SWA for the switches (Never seen this done ever) Sections done in pyro with random colour order. Supplied from an old Crabtree DB.

Yet to be surpassed in my book...

Risteard81

For the avoidance of doubt the core colours are not actually the only issue in the installation in question.

To put it in perspective a northern-style DB had been fitted in a press at high-level (although to be fair high-level would have been permitted at the time of installation) and with no main overcurrent protective device either in the DB or in the Permali Box. The SWA armour was unearthed and the cores were not even taped in the correct colours. This was subsequently connected into the cooker circuit MCB along with the cooker.

This SWA then went to a pump house for a swimming pool installation into another northern-style DB which had a SMPSU/electronic transformer for SELV downlighters lying loose in the bottom of the DB. The DB hadn't a great IP rating and slugs were found inside it, and the brass accessories in the pump house had largely corroded.

These were by no means the only issues in the installation either - pretty much the whole thing was crap.

I won't work downstream of a system I'm not happy with. Tell your client cost of works includes rectification of upstream electrics.

I'm so used to fixing other people's work I consider it normal.

Risteard81

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I won't work downstream of a system I'm not happy with. Tell your client cost of works includes rectification of upstream electrics.

I'm so used to fixing other people's work I consider it normal.

Indeed fixing other's work does seem far too usual. I did start from the top - including new meter tails to reach new position (nothing inherently wrong with the old meter tails other than not reaching the new DB position and being brought into the wrong entry in the Permali Box); main overcurrent protective device (none present before either in Permali Box or DB or anywhere in between) and new DB.

Still a lot of work to be done on the installation though.