Retraining as a Physics or Maths teacher

I know from this - Only six graduates in training to be Physics teachers - that there's an acute problem in finding enough Physics teachers. By most accounts there's also a shortage of Maths teachers.

If somebody wanted to retrain from outside teaching to teach these subjects, has the government introduced any financial incentive such as no fees - which I think was the situation for teachers of other subjects who went back to qualify as Maths teachers a few years ago - or subsidised fees?

At present it would cost somebody whom I know @ €20k in fees alone to pay for both the outstanding ECT credits they need for both subjects and the two-year masters so the cost is the principal impediment for them. In terms of the outstanding credits in Physics & Maths, has the Department established any financial supports yet? Can they register with the TC with their one existing subject, or do they have to complete the PME first?

mtoutlemonde

Fuaranach wrote: »

I know from this - Only six graduates in training to be Physics teachers - that there's an acute problem in finding enough Physics teachers. By most accounts there's also a shortage of Maths teachers.

If somebody wanted to retrain from outside teaching to teach these subjects, has the government introduced any financial incentive such as no fees - which I think was the situation for teachers of other subjects who went back to qualify as Maths teachers a few years ago - or subsidised fees?

At present it would cost somebody whom I know @ €20k in fees alone to pay for both the outstanding ECT credits they need for both subjects and the two-year masters so the cost is the principal impediment for them. In terms of the outstanding credits in Physics & Maths, has the Department established any financial supports yet? Can they register with the TC with their one existing subject, or do they have to complete the PME first?

To teach at second level you have to hold a recognised degree and a teaching education qualification and that includes ETBs where you could previously teach with a degree only - that changed in 2013.

Also in order to be paid by the Department, you have to be registered with the TC. The TC stance is that once you have one subject to HL Leaving Cert, it is up to the principal of a school to decide what you teach.

The Department do not care what happens in school and there are zero incentives to train in those subjects. Their stance is 'there are pinch points'. There was a free maths course for teachers teaching at least one class of maths per week. That has been discontinued.

€20000 would be the norm for most teachers i.e. three/four degree and the PME which is a whopping €12000. I would seriously consider changing to a teacher career unless you can survive for a good few years on part time hours and being treated unprofessionally by some principals. I do have to say there are far more positives than negatives (for me anyway) but teaching has changed drastically since I started and definitely not for the better. Best of luck with your decision.

RealJohn

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

There was a free maths course for teachers teaching at least one class of maths per week. That has been discontinued.

Has it? One of my colleagues claimed to be doing it last year.

mtoutlemonde

RealJohn wrote: »

Has it? One of my colleagues claimed to be doing it last year.

It's from September so people doing it now will finish but no new students. I think at the time it was being was being introduced, it was only for a year or two but it must be 8/9 years now. I think it was over on Voice for Teachers I saw it so it could be rubbish I'll check tomorrow.

rainbowtrout

Fuaranach wrote: »

I know from this - Only six graduates in training to be Physics teachers - that there's an acute problem in finding enough Physics teachers. By most accounts there's also a shortage of Maths teachers.

If somebody wanted to retrain from outside teaching to teach these subjects, has the government introduced any financial incentive such as no fees - which I think was the situation for teachers of other subjects who went back to qualify as Maths teachers a few years ago - or subsidised fees?

At present it would cost somebody whom I know @ €20k in fees alone to pay for both the outstanding ECT credits they need for both subjects and the two-year masters so the cost is the principal impediment for them. In terms of the outstanding credits in Physics & Maths, has the Department established any financial supports yet? Can they register with the TC with their one existing subject, or do they have to complete the PME first?

Yes it's hard to get physics teachers, but the headline is scaremongering to a degree. It says only 6 graduates training to be physics teachers. That's those who have got a physics degree and decided to do the dip. It does not account for any undergraduates on a teacher training degree (UL, Maynooth etc) who are doing physics as one of their subjects.


I wouldn't be looking at it as 20k to become a physics teacher. If they are not qualified as a teacher they have to do the PME anyway, which is 12k. That will have to happen regardless of their subjects. But to add on subjects, it depends on how many modules they have done in physics and maths in their original degree.

No there are no grants or financial incentives. There is a free postgrad in maths to allow teachers to qualify in maths, but they have to be qualified teachers to be eligible for it and they have to be teaching maths to be able to enrol on it.

rainbowtrout

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

There was a free maths course for teachers teaching at least one class of maths per week. That has been discontinued.

No it hasn't. Teacher I'm working with was doing it this year.

r93kaey5p2izun

My colleague was told it is closed and no new entrants being taken into Year 1 this Sept when she tried to apply. The website also says "programme closed".

mtoutlemonde

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No it hasn't. Teacher I'm working with was doing it this year.

https://www.ul.ie/graduateschool/course/professional-diploma-mathematics-teaching-level-8

Programme closed.

Postgrad10

Monsieur is correct. It's closed to new entrants as and from this year. I wonder will the government plan on doing similar for Irish.

williaint

If you have no family commitments, you can get £26k tax free to train as a teacher of Physics in England...This is what I did and I have since come back and secured a post, no way would I pay €12k to train here!



Once you have your induction year (NQT) done, you can register in Ireland and work on upgrading your PGCE / PGDE to a Masters.

evolving_doors

williaint wrote: »

If you have no family commitments, you can get £26k tax free to train as a teacher of Physics in England...This is what I did and I have since come back and secured a post, no way would I pay €12k to train here!



Once you have your induction year (NQT) done, you can register in Ireland and work on upgrading your PGCE / PGDE to a Masters.

Did you have to do any dissertation(thesis!)?

Corkgirl18

You can do a 4 year concurrent science degree in some colleges to get qualified which will work out cheaper. No need to do the PME then.

williaint

evolving_doors wrote: »

Did you have to do any dissertation(thesis!)?

Yes to go from a PGCE to a Masters I had to a dissertation of 20,000 words (I believe the PME is only 10,000 words) and weekly online sessions which were worth nothing but compulsory but it was all done by distance.

Tbh you would probably be better to aim for PGDE in England as these are closer to a Masters. Each institution is different and you need to make sure your training is for age group 11 to 18 NOT 11 to 16 which is often the case in England.

Re. concurrent option if you're retraining from another career, 4 years is a long time with no income plus you have to pay for an undergrad now.

evolving_doors

williaint wrote: »

Yes to go from a PGCE to a Masters I had to a dissertation of 20,000 words (I believe the PME is only 10,000 words) and weekly online sessions which were worth nothing but compulsory but it was all done by distance.

Tbh you would probably be better to aim for PGDE in England as these are closer to a Masters. Each institution is different and you need to make sure your training is for age group 11 to 18 NOT 11 to 16 which is often the case in England.

Re. concurrent option if you're retraining from another career, 4 years is a long time with no income plus you have to pay for an undergrad now.

UK sounds like a good idea, for Ireland though; Why pay 12k+ for full-time college for the chance of a few part time teaching hours, when you could do a free conversion/upgrade course with springboard+ in the evenings and weekends. And have a shot of starting off with min 40k + bonuses/ decent pension / health insurance in pharma or med. devices.