selling a farm

adamhughes

see a farm on estate agents and says FreeHold. never seen that before on land for sale

what exactly does it mean when it comes to farmland

ganmo

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freehold_(law)

adamhughes

what is land in poorish condition an acre at present?

Nekarsulm

adamhughes wrote: »

see a farm on estate agents and says FreeHold. never seen that before on land for sale

what exactly does it mean when it comes to farmland

As opposed to leasehold.
There is no ground rent payable to any party.
Some farms may actually be leasehold, on a thousand year lease, with a fee of five shillings per acre (for example) payable to some long forgotten estate or landlord.
Your ancestor paid full price for the land in 1930, but in the year 2930 it theoretically reverts to the original owner.
This lease money may never have been actually paid over/collected, but you still can't call it freehold.

Edit. It dosent affect the value of the land at the moment, cause there is still 920 years left to run on the lease, but in the year 2830, with only 100 years left, the value of the lease will be reduced quite a bit.

adamhughes

Nekarsulm wrote: »

As opposed to leasehold.
There is no ground rent payable to any party.
Some farms may actually be leasehold, on a thousand year lease, with a fee of five shillings per acre (for example) payable to some long forgotten estate or landlord.
Your ancestor paid full price for the land in 1930, but in the year 2930 it theoretically reverts to the original owner.
This lease money may never have been actually paid over/collected, but you still can't call it freehold.

Edit. It dosent affect the value of the land at the moment, cause there is still 920 years left to run on the lease, but in the year 2830, with only 100 years left, the value of the lease will be reduced quite a bit.

thanks for that

farm here is below average so not sure what its worth an acre

Base price

Nekarsulm wrote: »

As opposed to leasehold.
There is no ground rent payable to any party.
Some farms may actually be leasehold, on a thousand year lease, with a fee of five shillings per acre (for example) payable to some long forgotten estate or landlord.
Your ancestor paid full price for the land in 1930, but in the year 2930 it theoretically reverts to the original owner.
This lease money may never have been actually paid over/collected, but you still can't call it freehold.

Edit. It dosent affect the value of the land at the moment, cause there is still 920 years left to run on the lease, but in the year 2830, with only 100 years left, the value of the lease will be reduced quite a bit.

I always think of the Guinness/St. James Gate original lease which was taken out in 1759 for something like a thousand years.
I think Guinness/Diageo have bought it out now. I wonder how much it cost them.

Nekarsulm

adamhughes wrote: »

thanks for that

farm here is below average so not sure what its worth an acre

Well forestry land seems to be making 3000 to 3500 per acre, so that's your floor price...

TheFarrier

Base price wrote: »

I always think of the Guinness/St. James Gate original lease which was taken out in 1759 for something like a thousand years.
I think Guinness/Diageo have bought it out now. I wonder how much it cost them.

Nine thousand year lease on it I’m almost certain

arctictree

What is the actual point in these 1000 year leases, apart from getting legal people all excited?

Robson99

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Well forestry land seems to be making 3000 to 3500 per acre, so that's your floor price...

Depends.
Poor fragmented land could be as low as 1500 an acre.
Forestry price not always applicable as the base.
They not going to buy 20 acres of poor land that is in 4 or 5 lots either

adamhughes

Robson99 wrote: »

Depends.
Poor fragmented land could be as low as 1500 an acre.
Forestry price not always applicable as the base.
They not going to buy 20 acres of poor land that is in 4 or 5 lots either

thanks but that so disappointing as thought this farm was a bargain at 3150 euro an acre

anthony500_1

adamhughes wrote:

thanks but that so disappointing as thought this farm was a bargain at 3150 euro an acre

If you think it's a bargain then it's not dear. Have you done your sums and can you make the figures work. Unless farming or off farm job have the ability to pay for it then there is no point looking at it. Land does not come up for sale to often. If it's next door and suits you, and you can afford the 3150an acre then why not make an offer on it. You could be long gone the next time it comes up for sale


If your buying as an investment that's a different story.

Bass Reeves

arctictree wrote: »

What is the actual point in these 1000 year leases, apart from getting legal people all excited?

These type of leases were given back hundreds of years ago. Then inflation was zero so for the landlord. It may have made scense from the point of view that the renter would look after it like it was his own land. Back then things like rent reviews were unheard of. Ground rent on houses was similar in that the person who rented the plot build the house at his own expense and landlord had no expense except to collect the rent.

However inflation especially after World War I and World War II has eaten into the value of these long term lease's where they were virtually valueless if the lease had much longer than 100 years to run. Another anomly would be the ability to find the benifical owner in a 2-3 centuries time. Having said that I saw where apartments build during the noughties had 99 year leases written into them

Nekarsulm

Do you remember about 20 years ago some sharp operator started buying the ground rents off dozens of houses ( and a park, I believe ) in Georgian Dublin?
Then started applying inflation adjusted annual ground rents?

I think he locked the park up altogether, which caused a storm of protest from residents of the square who thought that they had the right to use it by way of living on the square.

Bullocks

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Do you remember about 20 years ago some sharp operator started buying the ground rents off dozens of houses ( and a park, I believe ) in Georgian Dublin?
Then started applying inflation adjusted annual ground rents?

I think he locked the park up altogether, which caused a storm of protest from residents of the square who thought that they had the right to use it by way of living on the square.

I vaguely remember something like that. Was he a Roscommon man?
What was the outcome do you remember?

Bass Reeves

Bullocks wrote: »

I vaguely remember something like that. Was he a Roscommon man?
What was the outcome do you remember?

Westmeath man, Athlone I think. I think Dublin County Council had to buy out the ground rents from him but not sure.

Base price

https://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0925/80695-dartmouth/