Yellow Card

TheValeyard

Hello to all.

1) I wish to dispute a yellow card given to me during the most recent Werewolf game.

2) Id also call into question the timing of the infraction.

Granted the comment I made was abrasive, but it was meant to be, to provide cover to a villager (Mary) who was about to become a Wolf convert. With my cover blown and next to be lynched and Mary next to be activated I need to have her deeply on the side of the village

Comment in question:

"Fcuk you.

Im working off a Theory here I put my point of view accross. So you can go and get hit by a truck. Im done explaining it. Im still think im right."

But this is part of my ploy to keep her firmly in villager role. I had stated on COP that this was my intention.

And as part of game rules this is sometimes done per our charter in the "getting under your skin" Category

Even our rules state that:

"Werewolf is a game where people will try get under your skin. ... but the game will have people using bad language and light name calling in order to provoke reactions from other players. This is usually in the good spirit of the game so dont take things too personally...."

I am flabbergasted that I was carded over this as it was part of my role as a seer wolf to try lay cover for my fellow wolves.


2) I am bit disgruntled with the timing of the card. Surely a card that was to be handed out, should be handed out at the time, and not over three days later, regardless of a game in progress or not.

I have been in contact with the mod, who will not change his mind and he has also informed me that the Cmod agrees with his decision.


I realise its a bank holiday weekend, so i am not expecting an immediate reply.

cheers!

dudara

Hi Murray,

Thanks for confirming you have been in touch with the mod. I’ll notify a CMod now. Can you please either post the PMs here, or alternatively forward them to the CMod when they come along

TheValeyard

dudara wrote: »

Hi Murray,

Thanks for confirming you have been in touch with the mod. I’ll notify a CMod now. Can you please either post the PMs here, or alternatively forward them to the CMod when they come along

Currently mobile.

Mod informed me that he'd already been in contact with Cmod. But ill forward when on pc. Theres no rush, you've better things to be doing on a bank holiday.

dudara

Whenever you can. Enjoy your weekend!

TheValeyard

dudara wrote: »

Whenever you can. Enjoy your weekend!

Cheers,

Have wine. And a free pass tomorrow
Nom nom nom.

Beasty

Post deleted

A reminder - only the OP, CMod, Admins or anyone invited by CMod or Admin may post in a dispute thread

Thanks

TheValeyard

The PMs...


Petr

You have received a warning
Dear Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull,

You have been warned for personal abuse.

This site is for civil discussion and so we don't allow discussion to descend into name calling and petty abuse.

Please see the Boards.ie FAQ for more details.



Moderator Note

When playing the Jurassic Park Werewolf game, when you occupied the Garbriel WW anon account, you personally abused another player.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107660451&postcount=306

This is unacceptable abuse. No more please.

Your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull View Post
Im in.

*You serious Petr?*


*Youve put the wrong post in?

I was obviously trying to get Mary WW firmly into the village pocket so when she as the wolf cub was converted she'd be safe. I even talked about it in my wolf lair with the other wolves.

Getting an infraction/ yellow card for this I believe is very unfair as is the timing of it. Its very delayed!


Pter

We infract the user, not the anon account. I cant infract the offending post, as that would infract Gabriel and not you.

Its a boards rule and it was a game rule. No personal abuse. If you cannot employ tactics that do not involve serious personal abuse, then you need to examine your playing style.

Delay is because thats how we handle issues during games.

*so is this a yellow card warning?*

Pter

Correct.

*Okay so, if your not going to change your mind on this, then Ill open up a process in the dispute forum

1) I do not believe a time delay like this is acceptable when handing out a card

2) It was part of the role of the game, as per ww charter rules. *

Pter

You are of course free to open a dispute but I can tell you now the response to any discussion around your choice of language no matter the context of the game. As per boards rules, abuse isn't allowed. At all.

The timing is because we do not disrupt games, I can understand if this is annoying, but it's not fair to disrupt the game for everyone else.

Fwiw forum mod and cmod have reviewed this and this isn't me doing something to you....it's us applying boards rules.

Anyway, proceed how you wish!

*Ill open a dispute thread soon.

Cheers!!*

Pawwed Rig

I see nothing wrong with how the mod dealt with this. If you cannot play without abusing others then you shouldn't play.
The delay in the infraction is not unusual and explainable given the uniqueness of the situation (game accounts).

TheValeyard

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with how the mod dealt with this. If you cannot play without abusing others then you shouldn't play.
The delay in the infraction is not unusual and explainable given the uniqueness of the situation (game accounts).

I wasn't abusing another player. It was the style of play i was using to give Mary WW cover.

And your quote about not playing....im one of the original players that has played nearly every game since its beginning on boards and have never had a situation like this.

Also as you should know, style like that play is covered in our WW charter "about getting under skin"

Edit: also like to point out that out of all players to receive a warning during the game, i appear to be the only one carded....(but not relevant to current discussion)

Pawwed Rig

If your style of play means posting as you did then that is unfortunate and will lead to further problems.

If there are other abusive posts please report them as normal and they will be acted upon as appropriate.

TheValeyard

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If your style of play means posting as you did then that is unfortunate and will lead to further problems.

If there are other abusive posts please report them as normal and they will be acted upon as appropriate.

Further problems?
Ive never had a problem like this before. Jt was obvious what my play was (see COP) backrooms. Other players have used a similar tactic before with no action taken. I think this is a complete over reaction.

Part of our charter even mentions this strategy. Im sure Mary WW did not take anything personally.

Its a game, its part of the role, part of the style.

TheValeyard

Howdy,

just wondering if its possible to get an update on this?

Edit: (in your own time)

Pawwed Rig

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with how the mod dealt with this. If you cannot play without abusing others then you shouldn't play.
The delay in the infraction is not unusual and explainable given the uniqueness of the situation (game accounts).

This is the decision from me.

TheValeyard

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

This is the decision from me.

That's fine, id like an admin review so.

Thanks anyway Pawwed Rig.

TheValeyard

Bump da bump.

Beasty

I've never spent any time in the forum, and suspect that may be the case with other Admins

Give me a day or two to get my head round what happens and how it happens, and then I'll be better positioned to deal with this appeal

Thanks

TheValeyard

No worries.

You should consider joining us, new game starts 26th Aug. Its a lot of fun!

Beasty

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

No worries.

You should consider joining us, new game starts 30th Aug. Its a lot of fun!

I'll try and understand it before committing:)

TheValeyard

Ive been playing since first game nearly two years ago and dont fully understand it. Just abit of paranoia, murder, betrayal, heroism and lynching. Good fun though!

Beasty

OK, I now have the basics of the game, & tbh it's something that if I did get involved in I would end up spending far too much time in that forum

The fundamental question here is whether your response to another user was, as you are suggesting, just part of your game plan, or if it was aimed abusively towards another player

The post in question was

Fcuk you.

Im working off a Theory here I put my point of view accross. So you can go and get hit by a truck. Im done explaining it. Im still think im right.

Now there is a third interpretation here - that is that you saw it as part of the game, but other users and/or the mod saw it differently

To conclude on this I think it best to look at the forum rules, and I quote from the Charter below:

3) Things can get heated - you may be called a liar or untrustworthy, deceitful etc etc and that is part of the game. If at any stage you feel a personal attack outside of the remit of the game has occurred, report the post for the attention of the forum moderators who will respond as appropriate.

and then in "What is Werewolf?" sticky:

Try not to be offended, but no personal abuse to be directed at players, especially concerning real life situations

Now there is absolutely no doubt that your post could be considered as contravening the forum rules. The terms used were very clearly abusive

The question I need to ask myself is whether I can interpret your intent in making that post. Unfortunately I am in no better position (and arguably a worse position) than the local mod to judge this. If I was close to the forum, and for example had noted similar comments being part of the regular tactics employed, I could potentially consider it fair comment in the context of the game. However I can only rely on those who are close to what goes on in the forum, who took the view the terminology was used in an abusive manner towards the other user

Unfortunately I am therefore unable to find anything wrong in the position adopted by the mod and upheld by the CMod

The only way I could consider an alternative would be if there were other examples of this sort of terminology being used and accepted in the context of the game

Just to add in connection with your timing point. My understanding is it was not appropriate to issue the card in the middle of the game, as that would give away your WW identity, so the mod left it a few days before applying it to your "regular" account. For the benefit of the mod, and indeed anyone reading this thread, it is possible to issue a profile infraction/warning which is not attributed to a specific post. The potential issue though is that any appeal here could similarly reveal a player's WW ID

Anyway, as I've indicated above, I am seeing no reason to overturn the mod's decision, unless there are any further facts you wish to present to support your case

TheValeyard

Cheers for the detailed reply! Appreciated. I do have other examples from previous games i could show you that would not be sanctioned if thats ok? (mobile for next 24hrs, so it be Friday if thats ok?)

Beasty

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Cheers for the detailed reply! Appreciated. I do have other examples from previous games i could show you that would not be sanctioned if thats ok? (mobile for next 24hrs, so it be Friday if thats ok?)

That's fine

TheValeyard

Howdy,

sorry for the delay,

Been away then a WW game started and didnt want to interfere with that

If you want an example of other "abuse" not yellow carded, I can offer you:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...&postcount=543

(no offence was taken, just part of the play)

Other examples....

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...&postcount=722
a
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...&postcount=737

Also in the more recent game....

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107983728

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057905121&page=113

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057905121&page=111

(not sure if im linking posts correctly, will try edit if needs be

Beasty

Apologies for the delay in getting back. Unfortunately I can't get all the links to work, but I have had a look at the more recent examples you provided, I have also had a word with the mod team

I have seen in this forum feedback thread a warning from the mod over personal abuse within the forum, with the following statement

Mod note

From this point onwards, personal abuse of any other posters will be taken very seriously and will result in the poster(s) at fault receiving an infraction and potentially a thread/forum ban. Regardless of whether they are playing in an active game.

Consistent provocation to obtain a reaction and instigate mod action will also be monitored and punished.

End mod note.

I would just add there is at least one other example I am aware of where a red card was issued to a user for personal abuse within the forum. In this case the mods considered your abuse simply went too far and actioned it accordingly. However I would note that your comments attracted a yellow card which was a lesser sanction than that applied to the other poster.

In the circumstances I am sorry but I do feel it appropriate to uphold the yellow card

TheValeyard

Thats fair enough Beasty. Thanks for your time anyhow.