Triple glazing

Zelda247

I live on a very noisy road and going to install 3 glazing any recs for suppliers. I live in north Dublin.

fatty pang

If you talk to an acoustic engineer they will tell you that you will get typically better sound attenuation from a double-glazed window. If you talk to a window salesman they will typically tell you what you want to hear.

massy086

I recently took out triple glazed units for a customer and replaced them with acoustic laminated a-rated units.the customer could not believe the difference it made and she also didn't have to replace her frames. The trick with laminated units is that laminated glass is two sheets of 3mm glass sandwiched together With 0.4mm of plastic in the middle.you then use a 4mm glass on the inside of the dg unit.so it's 6.4x16x4.because the two panes of glass are of a different thickness this muffles the sound waves

mad m

@massy086

Any idea price difference between the glass you put in vs normal DG unit.

massy086

mad m wrote: »

@massy086

Any idea price difference between the glass you put in vs normal DG unit.

there is about
A 30-40% difference in cost from standard dg unit.also with laminated you are getting added security as laminated glasd can't not be smashed as easily to create a hole in the unit for a burglar to gain entry

massy086

https://youtu.be/yDLejccvC6M

Zelda247

Thanks, the Windows need replacing anyway. So you think I might be better going for laminated glass instead of triple glazing? Also if I had the wall facing the road sound proofed that might help?

Pappacharlie

In my experience there is little difference from a noise reduction perspective between double and triple glazing. Triple glazed units fog upon the outside in cool weather conditions. This is perfectly normal and shows that they are working. It is something that a salesperson will not tell you.

Calahonda52

Zelda247 wrote: »

Thanks, the Windows need replacing anyway. So you think I might be better going for laminated glass instead of triple glazing? Also if I had the wall facing the road sound proofed that might help?

The wall is not the issue, it is any wall vents/chimneys/ etc as well as through the slates.
Could you screen the road by increasing the height of the wall or planting ever green shrubs: much more effective to try reduce it closer to road

Zelda247

There is no chimney in the bedroom and sadly it would not be possible to screen the road. I might look into the laminate idea if someone could help with more information. I am surprised that anyone buys triple glazing if they fog up, not good at all.

massy086

Zelda247 wrote: »

There is no chimney in the bedroom and sadly it would not be possible to screen the road. I might look into the laminate idea if someone could help with more information. I am surprised that anyone buys triple glazing if they fog up, not good at all.

Unfortunately with triple glazing yes the outer pane does fog up alot.

Calahonda52

Zelda247 wrote: »

There is no chimney in the bedroom and sadly it would not be possible to screen the road. I might look into the laminate idea if someone could help with more information. I am surprised that anyone buys triple glazing if they fog up, not good at all.

No wonder HE wept
Do you understand why and where they
fog up and how many days in the year it happens and what weather conditions, including RH and temperature, are required for it to occur.
So you would prefer to look out through less efficient windows:eek:

Pappacharlie

Yes I am well aware of how often it happens and the infleunce of Relative Humidity! I'm not sure if triple glass is much more efficient than energy efficient double glazing. There are also issues in relation to size and weight of triple glazed units depending on the window size. I do think that the laminated double glaze option would be a better option in terms of noise reduction.

BryanF

Pappacharlie wrote: »

I'm not sure if triple glass is much more efficient than energy efficient double glazing.

triple is typically better thermally.

fatty pang

BryanF wrote: »

triple is typically better thermally.

Indeed, by 40-50%

fatty pang

Calahonda52 wrote: »

So you would prefer to look out through less efficient windows:eek:

OP was merely responding to somebody elses half-baked opinion and clearly has an issue with sound not heat loss. In these circumstances double-glazing would be more appropriate.

fatty pang

Zelda247 wrote: »

I might look into the laminate idea if someone could help with more information.

If money is not an issue then replace the windows and redecorate internally. If the windows are relatively new or in good condition then just replacing the glazing would be the most cost-effective approach. If the seals are in poor condition these should also be replaced as sound will get through the smallest of gaps.
If you are only going to replace the glazing you will be limited to the same depth of glazing unit that is already in the window although this will probably limit both sound reduction and heat loss possibilities. As noted elsewhere glazing of different thicknesses will have a noticeable effect on sound reduction. At 6-7,5mm laminated glass there isn’t a huge benefit with ‘acoustic laminate’ and I wouldn’t bother incurring the extra expense. Laminate is definitely good from a security perspective (and cutting out UV -fading of internal surfaces).

If it will fit in the existing frame then the minimum thickness of glazing unit should be 6,4+16+4 with soft-coat LowE and argon for the best thermal performance. Good luck.

fatty pang

massy086 wrote: »

a-rated units.

What are 'a-rated' units ?

massy086 wrote: »

there is about
A 30-40% difference in cost from standard dg unit.

Somebody in the supply chain has very 'healthy' margins

JimmyMW

fatty pang wrote: »

Laminate is definitely good from a security perspective (and cutting out UV -fading of internal surfaces).

UV Fading is reduced by laminates, a 0.4mm interlayer will reduce by about 50% if memory serves me right, you would need to be up to 1.52mm interlayer before you reach reduction figures of the high 90%

Also, be aware of larger panes of glass, and areas where safety glass is required, a lot of the specs quoted in this thread cannot be used in all of the likely domestic locations as it is not safe and does not comply with building regulations, the most recent example of incorrect non safety glass used in a domestic with tragic circumstances as a result.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/man-bleeds-to-death-after-falling-into-glass-door-34147936.html

massy086

JimmyMW wrote: »

UV Fading is reduced by laminates, a 0.4mm interlayer will reduce by about 50% if memory serves me right, you would need to be up to 1.52mm interlayer before you reach reduction figures of the high 90%

Also, be aware of larger panes of glass, and areas where safety glass is required, a lot of the specs quoted in this thread cannot be used in all of the likely domestic locations as it is not safe and does not comply with building regulations, the most recent example of incorrect non safety glass used in a domestic with tragic circumstances as a result.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/man-bleeds-to-death-after-falling-into-glass-door-34147936.html

Laminated glass is safety glass

Zelda247

Oh gosh I am totally confused. Why on earth do some people,say that 3 glazing has improved noise reduction when you guys say it clearly doesn't.

fatty pang

JimmyMW wrote: »

UV Fading is reduced by laminates, a 0.4mm interlayer will reduce by about 50% if memory serves me right, you would need to be up to 1.52mm interlayer before you reach reduction figures of the high 90%

Your memory appears to be... fading. Laminated glass of any thickness in a window will eliminate 99% of UV light. You may be getting confused with the (relatively minor) fading effect of light above the UV range.

fatty pang

massy086 wrote: »

Laminated glass is safety glass

...and 'a-rated units' are ? (Apart from obviously being a nice little earner)

fatty pang

Zelda247 wrote: »

Oh gosh I am totally confused. Why on earth do some people,say that 3 glazing has improved noise reduction when you guys say it clearly doesn't.

There is a fair bit of uneducated opinion being aired.

massy086

fatty pang wrote: »

...and 'a-rated units' are ? (Apart from obviously being a nice little earner)

A-rated double glazed unit is made up of 4mm soft coat low E glass, a 20mm Thermex warm edge spacer bar which gives a thermal brake from the outside and inside glass panes and finally a 4mm low iron white glass.

A A-rated high insulation double glazed units are filled with Argon gas which adds another thermal barrier from outside elements.

fatty pang

massy086 wrote: »

A-rated double glazed unit is made up ....

That clears that up then. It's the typical industry marketing bolloxology rather any sort of certified performance measure.

massy086

fatty pang wrote: »

That clears that up then. It's the typical industry marketing bolloxology rather any sort of certified performance measure.

And a nice little earner too lol

JimmyMW

massy086 wrote: »

Laminated glass is safety glass

Both panes would need to be safety glass depending on the location, doors and adjacent to doors are a typical example. 6.4 Lam/16/4mm has been previously quoted, the 4mm pane would need to be toughened at a min

massy086

JimmyMW wrote: »

Both panes would need to be safety glass depending on the location, doors and adjacent to doors are a typical example. 6.4 Lam/16/4mm has been previously quoted, the 4mm pane would need to be toughened at a min

Ow yes of course where the survey requires safety glass.you would be amazed at what I see as non saftey glass.i won't make and door glass no matter how small non safety glass.if the customer won't pay the extra I won't do the job.my insurance is expensive enough without a claim

JimmyMW

fatty pang wrote: »

Your memory appears to be... fading. Laminated glass of any thickness in a window will eliminate 99% of UV light. You may be getting confused with the (relatively minor) fading effect of light above the UV range.

I might be, its a few years since I looked at it so ill try and dig out the doc I had on it previously and check.

An_Toirpin

Zelda247 wrote: »

I live on a very noisy road and going to install 3 glazing any recs for suppliers. I live in north Dublin.

I think in some cases reducing external draughts might be a complementary way to reduce noise.  Look at blowing tests