Oil conversion to Calor/Flogas LPG.

Fann Linn

My oil boiler is on the way out and needs replacing. With this in mind I'm currently exploring all options and am swayed towards moving to either Calor or Flogas in the tank mode rather than bottles/ cylinders.

I am living in a semi d in a rural village which is not and will not be connected to natural gas mains in my lifetime unfortunately.

I intend on getting some reps out from both companies over the next few weeks to get some quotes and to see what is involved in the change.


Before these people arrive however, would it be possible to get some neutral/impartial views from either installers or users on this site?
Thanks.

agusta

Getting a price on new oil boiler is a better option

John.G

Fann Linn wrote: »

My oil boiler is on the way out and needs replacing. With this in mind I'm currently exploring all options and am swayed towards moving to either Calor or Flogas in the tank mode rather than bottles/ cylinders.

I am living in a semi d in a rural village which is not and will not be connected to natural gas mains in my lifetime unfortunately.

I intend on getting some reps out from both companies over the next few weeks to get some quotes and to see what is involved in the change.


Before these people arrive however, would it be possible to get some neutral/impartial views from either installers or users on this site?
Thanks.

Have you a specific reason/reasons in opting for LPG as its ~ 50% more expensive than oil.??

monseiur

I'm not an expert but I know of at least 7 friends and relations who installed gas (tank not mains) in new builds over the last 10 years and all have converted their heating system to oil...and found it almost impossible to sell their used gas boilers.
They tell me that gas is 20 to 30% more expensive than oil, and you can shop around for heating oil whereas you're tied into a fixed contract with the gas companies and they know that and take advantage.
When oil dropped in price 2 to 3 years ago the gas companies did not follow suit for at least 18 months and only after a lot of pressure form consumer organisations etc.
I would advice you to get a few quotes on different types/makes of oil boilers, supplied & fitted. I understand that some are the condensing type modern ones are very economical to run and grants are available in certain circumstances - worth following up on.
Just my two cents.
M.

shane b

I would agree with the post by monseiur above. If you have oil already think carefully about changing. Gas would also require a new tank and gas line ran into the house.
I have LPG heating and my issue is I can't shop around as Calor or Flogas are the only suppliers of LPG and you rent the tank from them so I also have an annual fee to pay.
I have underfloor heating so LPG is supposed to work better with underfloor than oil. This was all done when I bought the house a few years ago.

Fann Linn

Thanks for all the advice folks. I'll make a few more enquiries, but from the first hand opinions offered here, I think I'll be sticking with the oil.
Thanks again.

Idbatterim

A few things with gas. Doesn’t stink. Can’t be stolen. I believe the boilers are cheaper to buy and also fully modulating. I’ve a decision to make shortly on oil v had for 10k sq foot house. I’ll look into it one more time, but I’ll pay a small premium for gas, if indeed it is any more expensive. Given its superiority in every aspect. Except perhaps cost ...

Geimhreadh

John.G wrote: »

Have you a specific reason/reasons in opting for LPG as its ~ 50% more expensive than oil.??

Hi John,
How is gas 50% more expensive?

In the same boat as OP and trying to understand the ins and outs of moving to Calor/flogas

Didn't know you had to rent the tank from them.

From what I can tell right now oil is .71c a litre and Calor told me today the LPG is 68c a litre.

So is more gas burnt to produce the same amount of heat to make it 50% more expensive?

Geimhreadh

Idbatterim wrote: »

A few things in gas. It’s far cheaper ...

Hi ldbatterim,
Can you tell us why it's far cheaper?

We are looking at 3.7k for new oil boiler or 4k to switch to gas.

Right now the cost of the fuel seems to relatively similar so trying to understand the various opinions that one it far cheaper than the other?

Idbatterim

Geimhreadh wrote: »

Hi John,
How is gas 50% more expensive?

In the same boat as OP and trying to understand the ins and outs of moving to Calor/flogas

Didn't know you had to rent the tank from them.

From what I can tell right now oil is .71c a litre and Calor told me today the LPG is 68c a litre.

So is more gas burnt to produce the same amount of heat to make it 50% more expensive?

https://www.seai.ie/resources/publications/Domestic-Fuel-Cost-Comparison.pdf

Idbatterim

Geimhreadh wrote: »

Hi ldbatterim,
Can you tell us why it's far cheaper?

We are looking at 3.7k for new oil boiler or 4k to switch to gas.

Right now the cost of the fuel seems to relatively similar so trying to understand the various opinions that one it far cheaper than the other?

Sorry. I meant to say that from my recollection of research some time ago , on oil v gas. The gas boilers were a fair bit cheaper to buy... we currently have a small enough bulk tank at the property, it as a sensor that automatically notifies Calor when it reaches a certain level, they just then show up automatically to fill it. You do pay maintenance on the tank. They painted ours the other day and wash it down occasionally...

John.G

Geimhreadh wrote: »

Hi John,
How is gas 50% more expensive?

In the same boat as OP and trying to understand the ins and outs of moving to Calor/flogas

Didn't know you had to rent the tank from them.

From what I can tell right now oil is .71c a litre and Calor told me today the LPG is 68c a litre.

So is more gas burnt to produce the same amount of heat to make it 50% more expensive?

As per SEAI link above, the energy content of 1 Litre of Kero is 10.18 Kwh which contains nearly 44% more energy than 1 Litre of LPG @ 7.09 Kwh.

With standing charges, SEAI link, table 2, and assuming 80% boiler efficiency, then the the LPG is almost 59% dearer than Kero, 13.43 C/Kwh vs 8.45 C/Kwh, your quoted LPG cost is ~ 4% cheaper than Kero so that means that LPG is still 55% more expensive per useful Kwh than Kero.

I misread the above as the standing charges (tank rental etc) are not included in the above, if anyone has a figure for this they might post it or maybe they paid for tank ownership. One way or the other, it doesn't make the LPG option seem very attractive.

Tom44

Idbatterim wrote: »

A few things with gas. Doesn’t stink. Can’t be stolen. I believe the boilers are cheaper to buy and also fully modulating. I’ve a decision to make shortly on oil v had for 10k sq foot house. I’ll look into it one more time, but I’ll pay a small premium for gas, if indeed it is any more expensive. Given its superiority in every aspect. Except perhaps cost ...

If you have a 10,000 sq/f house, you can easily go gas.

houseplant

I misread the above as the standing charges (tank rental etc) are not included in the above, if anyone has a figure for this they might post it or maybe they paid for tank ownership. One way or the other, it doesn't make the LPG option seem very attractive.[/quote]

€212 per year to 'rent' the tank. Also they take up to a week to make a delivery, once it was 10days.
STAY AWAY FROM CALOR

John.G

Tom44 wrote: »

If you have a 10,000 sq/f house, you can easily go gas.

"Naturally", I hope.

John.G

houseplant wrote: »

I misread the above as the standing charges (tank rental etc) are not included in the above, if anyone has a figure for this they might post it or maybe they paid for tank ownership. One way or the other, it doesn't make the LPG option seem very attractive.

€212 per year to 'rent' the tank. Also they take up to a week to make a delivery, once it was 10days.
STAY AWAY FROM CALOR[/QUOTE]

Taking this €212 extra cost into account:
I won't go through the dreary calcs again but if one used 15000 Kwh/year then LPG is ~ 72% more expensive than Kero, using 10000 Kwh/year makes it 80% more expensive and if one was only using 5000 Kwh/year (unlikely) makes it 96% more expensive.
While I accept that one must pay for the rent etc for a pressure vessel which needs periodic/regular inspections its a bit "misleading" when the price of LPG is quoted in Litres even though it is delivered in those quantities when the energy content is only 70% of the energy content of a litre of Kero.
My oil supplier is quoting 74C/Litre for Kerosene today, so LPG would have to be around 52C/Litre to make it competitive if one ignores the Tank charges.

Dardania

If changing from one system to another, why not consider Air to Water? There are grants available, and you can run it from electricity (so one less bill to deal with / deliveries to coordinate)

Idbatterim

John.G wrote: »

"Naturally", I hope.

Nope unfortunately, not on ng line. The figures here if accurate, would likely have me back to oil. I’d pay a premium for gas, but nothing like the figures here are suggesting ...

blackplum123

I'm new to this LPG gas heating . Can anyone tell me what they are paying per litre with FLOGAS.
My tank takes 1000 litres and looks like it will be costly to fill.

John.G

Looking at the SEAI domestic energy costs for JUly (someone might supply a link to a more updated version) they quote 82C/litre which equates to 11.53C/kwh, I got a fill of oil (kero) yesterday for 72C/litre which equates to 7.07C/kwh so based on those numbers LPG was/is ~
63% more expensive than oil. I would say, generally. that LPG has always been ~ 50% more expensive, now you will get better boiler control with a LPG boiler because they can modulate but its hard to see more than ~ a 5% gain overall so the 50% more expensive figure probably is a fair estimate.

shane b

blackplum123 wrote: »

I'm new to this LPG gas heating . Can anyone tell me what they are paying per litre with FLOGAS.
My tank takes 1000 litres and looks like it will be costly to fill.

If you have your account number they should be able to tell you over the phone and also if your account is in contract or not. You can get a discounted rate per litre for 1 year if you sign up/renew for a 2 year contract.
I'm with Calor and they have 4 different out of contract price bands depending on how much gas has been used in the previous 12 months. They varying from 89 cent for a heavy user to 109 cent for a light user.

0lddog

At 109c/l and a boiler efficiency of 92.5% I think cost of heat generated from LPG is circa 16.5 c/ kWhr. In addition there will be the ( "standing charge" ) tank rental cost.

By way of comparison, Bonkers.ie is showing three electricity suppliers charging less than 16 c per kWhr. ( Note no additional standing charge if heating with electricity )

Of course, if you heat your house during some of the night as well as some of the day and use a day/night tarrif then electricity will be even more attractive

Wildly Boaring

Tom44 wrote: »

If you have a 10,000 sq/f house, you can easily go gas.

"House"
Sounds like a barn
Need the cash for ash back