Deed of Surrender

Heat_Wave

What happens if a tenant refuses to sign a deed of surrender?

Situation:

Joint tenancy, all severely liable.
Landlord agreed to end tenancy, we were sent this deed of surrender.
The DOS states we owe rent arrears of approx €700, however I refuse to pay this amount as I vacated the property a long time ago and the current tenants are also refusing to pay it.

nuac

Mod
Leaving open for general discussion subject to forum rule v. legal advice

Peregrinus

Your liability to pay rent doesn't depend on whether you are actually occupying the property. You have rented the property; you have to pay rent on it. The allocation of the cost as between the co-tenants is a matter for them to sort out but, as betweeen the landlord and the tenants, it doesn't affect the landlord; he can pursue any co=tenant for the whole amount of the rend due.

As long as the deed of surrender remains unsigned the lease continues, and the liability for rent continues to accrue. So, the longer you and your co-tenants argue about this, the more the total amount owing to the landlord.

Heat_Wave

Peregrinus wrote: »

As long as the deed of surrender remains unsigned the lease continues, and the liability for rent continues to accrue. So, the longer you and your co-tenants argue about this, the more the total amount owing to the landlord.

I could be wrong, but I read that a landlord cannot pursue an individual in a joint tenancy agreement, he can only pursue "all" tenants as one?

Secondly, he ended the tenancy due to all the complaints. Noise, smoking indoors, poor maintenance of the property etc. This is why I moved out a while ago, I couldn't cope with the poor behaviour of the other tenants.

So surely he will sacrifice the outstanding rent in order to get rid of us? Surely he will not allow the other tenants to continue living there as his property is at risk, and the neighbours will go nuts (the neighbours complained all the time as they wanted my flatmates out. He is also their landlord). Hopefully this provides more context.

Can you negotiate the terms on a deed of surrender?

Peregrinus

Heat_Wave wrote: »

I could be wrong, but I read that a landlord cannot pursue an individual in a joint tenancy agreement, he can only pursue "all" tenants as one?

He can pursue any one or more of them, or all of them, as he pleases. If he chooses not to pursue all the tenants, then the tenant(s) that he does pursue can chase the others, if they want to.

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Secondly, he ended the tenancy due to all the complaints. Noise, smoking indoors, poor maintenance of the property etc. This is why I moved out a while ago, I couldn't cope with the poor behaviour of the other tenants.

So surely he will sacrifice the outstanding rent in order to get rid of us? Surely he will not allow the other tenants to continue living there as his property is at risk, and the neighbours will go nuts (the neighbours complained all the time as they wanted my flatmates out. He is also their landlord). Hopefully this provides more context.

Can you negotiate the terms on a deed of surrender?

You can negotiate, yes, although for the reason already mentioned your negotiating position as a tenant is not strong. Why would the landlord give up his rights as against any tenant while money is still owing to him? Are you offering anything to the landlord which would mean that it is in his interest to agree to this?

Heat_Wave

Peregrinus wrote: »

He can pursue any one or more of them, or all of them, as he pleases. If he chooses not to pursue all the tenants, then the tenant(s) that he does pursue can chase the others, if they want to.


You can negotiate, yes, although for the reason already mentioned your negotiating position as a tenant is not strong. Why would the landlord give up his rights as against any tenant while money is still owing to him? Are you offering anything to the landlord which would mean that it is in his interest to agree to this?

Hi Peregrinus,

I had a good relationship with the landlord as he understands how difficult it was for me to live there. He ended up terminating the lease because of the poor behaviour of my flatmates. However he is now down my rent. It's an unfair situation for him I admit.

However I was forced out of this tenancy by my flatmates. I endured serious mental abuse.

My Q is this. If I refuse to sign the deed of surrender, what happens next? AFAIK, the tenancy will continue (he won't want this), or his only other option is to apply to the courts for an eviction (he won't want this either as it's costly and could take months to obtain).

However, if I sign, my rent comes out of the overall deposit, and when myself and my ex flatmates are forced to communicate with one another to decide how the remainder of the deposit is split, they obviously will not want me to receive any of it. Why would I put myself in this situation? I'd rather we all received nothing, than to see the two of them receive half each.

Mod

HW, this thread was left open for general discussion only.

You will have to consult your own solicitor for advice on your own situation.

Heat_Wave

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Hi Peregrinus,

I had a good relationship with the landlord as he understands how difficult it was for me to live there. He ended up terminating the lease because of the poor behaviour of my flatmates. However he is now down my rent. It's an unfair situation for him I admit.

However I was forced out of this tenancy by my flatmates. I endured serious mental abuse.

My Q is this. If I refuse to sign the deed of surrender, what happens next? AFAIK, the tenancy will continue (he won't want this), or his only other option is to apply to the courts for an eviction (he won't want this either as it's costly and could take months to obtain).

However, if I sign, my rent comes out of the overall deposit, and when myself and my ex flatmates are forced to communicate with one another to decide how the remainder of the deposit is split, they obviously will not want me to receive any of it. Why would I put myself in this situation? I'd rather we all received nothing, than to see the two of them receive half each.

Mod

HW, this thread was left open for general discussion only.

You will have to consult your own solicitor for advice on your own situation.

Hi Mod,

Apologies, I was just seeking advice from people who know anything about deeds of surrenders.

I didn't intend (nor was I conscious) that I was crossing the line.

I would appreciate if we could keep this open for a general discussion, but understand if that's not possible.

Thanks

MOD
OK

s7ryf3925pivug

Not speaking from a legal point of view but a pragmatic one here, but a decent reference from the landlord might be important to you at some point, more important than say 233 euro or spiting your former flatmates.

Peregrinus

Heat-Wave, ask yourself, if you were in the landlord's position, what course would you take with a view to mimimising your loss in this situation?

That is the course you should expect the landlord to take.

Heat_Wave

Peregrinus wrote: »

Heat-Wave, ask yourself, if you were in the landlord's position, what course would you take with a view to mimimising your loss in this situation?

That is the course you should expect the landlord to take.

Maybe I'm naive, but I have a good relationship with this man. He knows I'm the only tenant who tried tirelessly to keep his flat in good condition.

Will this really come down to money or will he be in some what lenient given our relationship (in your opinion)?

I would love if there was a way that we could both come out well in this, and the other two tenants get what they deserve. However I don't know if justice is possible here.

Peregrinus

Well, you know him better than I do. No doubt he would prefer to collect from the other two rather than from you, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will let you off the hook. Plus, he may reckon that by keeping you in the frame, you as well has he will be putting pressure on the other two.