Seashore ownership

Discodog

I thought that no one can own the foreshore defined as the area between lowest & highest tides. Is this true? If so is it possible for someone to own a beach?

Pat Mustard

I looked this up some time ago and my recollection is that such foreshore vests in the State. It may be possible to defeat the State's title and become the registered owner of such property by adverse possession (squatters rights). The general period of limitation required for adverse possession is sixty years, if I remember correctly. I don't have the time to look up the relevant section of the Statute of Limitations atm.

4ensic15

A person can own that portion of the beach inshore of the high tide mark. They might also own all the surrounding land which might permit access to the beach. In Kilbaha in Clare, in the 19th century, the local landlord wouldn't allow a church to be built. The parishioners build a movable structure which was essentially a hut on wheels. They used to wheel it below the high tide mark on the beach, the priest used to stand in it and say mass. the landlord couldn't stop it. The structure called the ark now in a church in Kilbaha.

TomOnBoard

Discodog wrote: »

I thought that no one can own the foreshore defined as the area between lowest & highest tides. Is this true? If so is it possible for someone to own a beach?

S1. of Foreshore Act 1933 defines:


"the word “foreshore” means the bed and shore, below the line of high water of ordinary or medium tides, of the sea and of every tidal river and tidal estuary and of every channel, creek, and bay of the sea or of any such river or estuary;"

Note the 'ordinary or medium tides' would not include extraordinary tide water levels.

If the beach had been owned privately prior to the creation of Saorstat Eireann, then surely it would still be owned privately unless the State had acquired it in the meantime.

There may be an issue in some places in the future with rising sea levels, where tides increasingly might encroach upon lands that previously lay above the foreshore in private hands. Im not sure how thats gonna go...

Lmklad

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

I thought that no one can own the foreshore defined as the area between lowest & highest tides. Is this true? If so is it possible for someone to own a beach?

S1. of Foreshore Act 1933 defines:


"the word “foreshore” means the bed and shore, below the line of high water of ordinary or medium tides, of the sea and of every tidal river and tidal estuary and of every channel, creek, and bay of the sea or of any such river or estuary;"

Note the 'ordinary or medium tides' would not include extraordinary tide water levels.

If the beach had been owned privately prior to the creation of Saorstat Eireann, then surely it would still be owned privately unless the State had acquired it in the meantime.

Correct. I am aware of older estates where the land owner also owns the foreshore.

County Councils have very detailed maps which outline public and privately owned lands.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/buying_a_home/property_deeds.html

Discodog

Lmklad wrote: »

Correct. I am aware of older estates where the land owner also owns the foreshore.

County Councils have very detailed maps which outline public and privately owned lands.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/buying_a_home/property_deeds.html

Would that ownership be before legislation was passed ?

Lmklad

Discodog wrote: »

Lmklad wrote: »

Correct. I am aware of older estates where the land owner also owns the foreshore.

County Councils have very detailed maps which outline public and privately owned lands.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/buying_a_home/property_deeds.html

Would that ownership be before legislation was passed ?

The land I was looking at had been in the same family since the 1700’s. So I can only speak for that one.

TomOnBoard

Discodog wrote: »

Would that ownership be before legislation was passed ?

Basically yes. In 1922, Saorstat Eireann "inherited" everything previously vested in the State and its Governmental Depts and agencies. This was enacted through the Constitution of the Irish Free State (not Bunreacht na hEireann). If it wasnt previously vested in the State, but was held in private hands, there was no change to that ownership contained in the Free State Constitution Act, nor in the subsequent Foreshore Act 1933, nor in Bunreacht na h-Eireann, except where the State might have acquired ownership in acordance with the Foreshore Act.

I don't know of any other legislation since that might have changed the general situation, although targeted measures will have been enacted for specific areas since (such as Whiddy Oil Refinery, Corrib Gas processing etc.

Im not speaking of this as a legal person, just someone who has both years and historical interest to draw upon..

I'm sure more qualified persons can clarify and/or correct me if I'm wrong. :eek:

Grolschevik

I have a friend who got into trouble for running a business in such a place.

But then, she sells seashells on the seashore.

Addle

How do people manage to harvest and sell seaweed?

handlemaster

4ensic15 wrote: »

A person can own that portion of the beach inshore of the high tide mark. They might also own all the surrounding land which might permit access to the beach. In Kilbaha in Clare, in the 19th century, the local landlord wouldn't allow a church to be built. The parishioners build a movable structure which was essentially a hut on wheels. They used to wheel it below the high tide mark on the beach, the priest used to stand in it and say mass. the landlord couldn't stop it. The structure called the ark now in a church in Kilbaha.

And look what the church brought to Clare the locals should be proud

Eric Cartman

Addle wrote: »

How do people manage to harvest and sell seaweed?

Mod deletion - pls be polite no local beach garda even bothering to check if its even remotely illegal .

There has been litigation over seaweed harvesting rights.

I recall Circuit Court litigation over rights to harvest seaweed in Clew Bay

Victor

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I don't know of any other legislation since that might have changed the general situation, although targeted measures will have been enacted for specific areas since (such as Whiddy Oil Refinery, Corrib Gas processing etc.

Isn't this just dealt with by issuing a foreshore licence under the Foreshore Act?

Discodog

Never mind the seaweed Winkles will fetch €130 a stone before Christmas

Stanford

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Basically yes. In 1922, Saorstat Eireann "inherited" everything previously vested in the State and its Governmental Depts and agencies. This was enacted through the Constitution of the Irish Free State (not Bunreacht na hEireann). If it wasnt previously vested in the State, but was held in private hands, there was no change to that ownership contained in the Free State Constitution Act, nor in the subsequent Foreshore Act 1933, nor in Bunreacht na h-Eireann, except where the State might have acquired ownership in acordance with the Foreshore Act.

I don't know of any other legislation since that might have changed the general situation, although targeted measures will have been enacted for specific areas since (such as Whiddy Oil Refinery, Corrib Gas processing etc.

Im not speaking of this as a legal person, just someone who has both years and historical interest to draw upon..

I'm sure more qualified persons can clarify and/or correct me if I'm wrong. :eek:

Industries as you suggest apply to traverse the foreshore by means of obtaining a Foreshore Licence but ownership still vests in the State

Stanford

Addle wrote: »

How do people manage to harvest and sell seaweed?

Long established custom and practice but they still don't own the foreshore

Under His Eye

You require a foreshore licence if you wish to hunt along the foreshore.

Carawaystick

Under His Eye wrote: »

You require a foreshore licence if you wish to hunt along the foreshore.

Does that include picking limpets?

Lmklad

Carawaystick wrote: »

Under His Eye wrote: »

You require a foreshore licence if you wish to hunt along the foreshore.

Does that include picking limpets?

Assume “under his eye” means shooting on a foreshore which does require a special foreshore licence which only covers public land and not privately owned.

Discodog

Carawaystick wrote: »

Does that include picking limpets?

Some East European lads heard about the winkles. They spend hours filling bags with Limpets & anything else with a shell. The factory were not impressed when they tried to sell them.