Rules of the road — Was I correctly beeped at? How do you handle this scenario?

Apocladagr0

Scenario I (Dundrum)

Who was in the wrong here?


I needed to take the 2nd exit, which is at less 12 o'clock, so I'm in the left lane. As I'm entering the roundabout, suddenly a guy in the right lane of the roundabout decides to take the 1st exit relative to me, so I cut him off. He beeps as if it's my fault. Since he didn't obey the 12 o'clock rule properly, shouldn't he have been in the left lane too? Or do you have to wait until both lanes are clear?

https://imgur.com/gallery/Gl1DOgj


Scenario II (Blanchardstown)

How would you handle this?


Imagine you need to be in the left lane after the bus lane for a roundabout. At rush hour the left lane is always full, with the queue longer than for the right lane. If you don't cross the continuous white line and drive over the bus lane, the drivers won't let you merge, so end up holding up the traffic on the right lane. Literally everyone I've seen crosses the continuous white line and drives over the bus lane. What's the correct way to handle this situation?

https://imgur.com/9vZFHa8

_Kaiser_

Apocladagr0 wrote: »

Scenario I (Dundrum)

Who was in the wrong here?


I needed to take the 2nd exit, which is at less 12 o'clock, so I'm in the left lane. As I'm entering the roundabout, suddenly a guy in the right lane of the roundabout decides to take the 1st exit relative to me, so I cut him off. He beeps as if it's my fault. Since he didn't obey the 12 o'clock rule properly, shouldn't he have been in the left lane too? Or do you have to wait until both lanes are clear?

https://imgur.com/gallery/Gl1DOgj

You're wrong. You are supposed to yield to traffic already on the roundabout and pulled out in front of this guy who I'm assuming came from the same direction you were going and thus was perfectly entitled to be in that lane

Scenario II (Blanchardstown)

How would you handle this?

Imagine you need to be in the left lane after the bus lane for a roundabout. At rush hour the left lane is always full, with the queue longer than for the right lane. If you don't cross the continuous white line and drive over the bus lane, the drivers won't let you merge, so end up holding up the traffic on the right lane. Literally everyone I've seen crosses the continuous white line and drives over the bus lane. What's the correct way to handle this situation?

https://imgur.com/9vZFHa8

Unless the bus lane is not in operation, you are not supposed to merge into it until it ends. If it means delaying people in the right lane a few seconds, legally that's what you're meant to do.

The Gardai can and will do people for the behavior you're describing - which admittedly yes is very common.

sbs2010

For first one the other car may not have been in correct lane but they were on the roundabout before you so you were wrong to cut them off.

For the second one, stay in the right hand lane and go all the way around the roundabout I.e. 1 full circuit plus the extra to get to your exit.

cruizer101

Scenario 1, where was he coming from. He had right of way anyway as was on the roundabout first. Was he indicating at all.

Scenario 2, the right thing to do is only move left after the bus lane and if everyone did that it would work well. You are not doing anything wrong by staying in right lane but given the queue is probably go into the bus lane myself.

GreeBo

First one.
He should have moved over to the outside lane after he passed the exit parallel to you, but you should still have yielded to him.

Yer Da sells Avon

You were wrong, but unless it was a very near miss, the person beeping at you was also wrong.

ED E

Number 2 really really really needs some "red light" cameras to clamp down on if BusConnects is to function. Drive in a bus lane, get a fine every time. Cut it right out.

ted1

The car on the roundabout has right of way.

Cars in the bus lane are wrong. Enforcement levels in Ireland are terrible and need to increase

heroics

First scenario I’d have beeped at you too. Car on the roundabout has right if way and you pulled out in front of them.

This image might help
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/image/roundabout_uk.jpg

Or this video https://youtu.be/4rsdaSTOkWk

Yer Da sells Avon

heroics wrote: »

First scenario I’d have beeped at you too. Car on the roundabout has right if way and you pulled out in front of them.

If you're driving sensibly, paying attention and reading the road ahead effectively, you wouldn't need to beep at them. You'd be able to slow down without any drama. A flash of the lights, certainly, to let them know you're there, but there's way too much territorial beeping on the roads.

GreeBo

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

If you're driving sensibly, paying attention and reading the road ahead effectively, you wouldn't need to beep at them. You'd be able to slow down without any drama. A flash of the lights, certainly, to let them know you're there, but there's way too much territorial beeping on the roads.

Territorial flashing is ok but not territorial beeping?

Dravokivich

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

If you're driving sensibly, paying attention and reading the road ahead effectively, you wouldn't need to beep at them. You'd be able to slow down without any drama. A flash of the lights, certainly, to let them know you're there, but there's way too much territorial beeping on the roads.

The horn is meant to warn someone of your presence on the road. If you flash lights you can be visually distracting them and it doesn't really tell someone where you are as light can easily be reflected.

Podge_irl

For the second one, you can see a good example of what you're supposed to do here:

https://goo.gl/maps/DhaD1FBpMeC2

As you're coming off the M1 and hit the Collins Avenue junction you used to get the situation as you describe above. All the cars would move into the bus lane early when wanting to turn left. Eventually bollards were installed to stop them doing so - you simply have to wait to merge in the lane to the right of the bus lane now and that is what you are supposed to do everywhere.

Yer Da sells Avon

Dravokivich wrote: »

The horn is meant to warn someone of your presence on the road. If you flash lights you can be visually distracting them and it doesn't really tell someone where you are as light can easily be reflected.

The horn is meant to warn someone of your presence on the road, for safety reasons. More often than not, people use it to let others know that they've made a mistake, after the event. At least if you flash your lights, you're warning someone of your presence on the road, without warning everyone else within earshot too.

GreeBo

Podge_irl wrote: »

For the second one, you can see a good example of what you're supposed to do here:

https://goo.gl/maps/DhaD1FBpMeC2

As you're coming off the M1 and hit the Collins Avenue junction you used to get the situation as you describe above. All the cars would move into the bus lane early when wanting to turn left. Eventually bollards were installed to stop them doing so - you simply have to wait to merge in the lane to the right of the bus lane now and that is what you are supposed to do everywhere.

+1
This happens all over the place and you will get a ticket if the cops see you enter the lane early (though the chances are slim)
Drive up the driving lane until the bus lane ends or changes to a broken line and then indicate to get in. Often you will get in far sooner than if you had just joined the "illegal" queue.

Apocladagr0

Really pleased with all the answers, thank you everyone. Helping me to become a better driver every day!

heroics wrote: »

First scenario I’d have beeped at you too. Car on the roundabout has right if way and you pulled out in front of them.

This image might help
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/image/roundabout_uk.jpg

Or this video https://youtu.be/4rsdaSTOkWk

There are no lane changes in your pic. I edited the path of the orange car to more closely resemble what actually happened: https://i.imgur.com/yYGNBPg.png


Regardless, in the future, I'm just going to wait a bit longer before entering the roundabout:)

Dravokivich

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

The horn is meant to warn someone of your presence on the road, for safety reasons. More often than not, people use it to let others know that they've made a mistake, after the event. At least if you flash your lights, you're warning someone of your presence on the road, without warning everyone else within earshot too.

People use flashing lights to express so many different messages, it's utterly meaningless. It's also not what you are supposed to be doing as you may dazzle someone else.

bpmurray

This is one of my pet peeves. The Irish approach is to suggest the 12-o-clock rule, which is non-deterministic. I learned to drive in the UK, and the approach to roundabouts is really, really simple and really, really reliable, and never, ever confusing. There are 2 parts:

• Indicating: you indicate left at the exit before you leave the roundabout; you don't indicate two exits before you leave the roundabout; you indicate right otherwise.
• Travelling through the roundabout: at least two exits from where you leave the roundabout, you should move into the left lane; otherwise, stay in whatever lane is appropriate for the speed you're travelling, i.e. there is NO requirement to move into the right-hand lane, since it's the overtaking lane

Here, many people drive around the right-hand lane and try to exit from there, cutting across traffic and almost causing accidents all the time, like the OP referred to. The muppet who wanted to cut across traffic and exit the roundabout was 100% in the wrong! It isn't possible for someone entering the roundabout to guess that someone in the right-hand lane is going to cut across traffic like that.

Yer Da sells Avon

Dravokivich wrote: »

People use flashing lights to express so many different messages, it's utterly meaningless. It's also not what you are supposed to be doing as you may dazzle someone else.

Yeah, whatever. It's the horn-blasting that I take issue with. Way too much of it nowadays, for the slightest mistakes, and it doesn't make the roads any safer. It just creates unnecessary noise and contributes to ill-feeling among road users.

GreeBo

bpmurray wrote: »

TThe muppet who wanted to cut across traffic and exit the roundabout was 100% in the wrong! It isn't possible for someone entering the roundabout to guess that someone in the right-hand lane is going to cut across traffic like that.

The OP is demonstrably in the wrong, they entered a roundabout without yielding to traffic that was already on the roundabout.

Also there are plenty of roundabouts that have 2 lanes on the exit, on these roundabouts traffic in the inside/RHL will be exiting and they have every right to.

bpmurray

GreeBo wrote: »

The OP is demonstrably in the wrong, they entered a roundabout without yielding to traffic that was already on the roundabout.

Also there are plenty of roundabouts that have 2 lanes on the exit, on these roundabouts traffic in the inside/RHL will be exiting and they have every right to.

Fair enough - if there are 2 exit lanes. But only in that case. If someone is trying to exit into the only exit from the RHL, he should be strung up by the short & curlys.

GreeBo

bpmurray wrote: »

Fair enough - if there are 2 exit lanes. But only in that case. If someone is trying to exit into the only exit from the RHL, he should be strung up by the short & curlys.

Indeed, but only by the person on the roundaboutin the left lane.
Purple not yet on the roundabout shooting stay out of it, literally.

Deagol

Apocladagr0 wrote: »

Really pleased with all the answers, thank you everyone. Helping me to become a better driver every day!



There are no lane changes in your pic. I edited the path of the orange car to more closely resemble what actually happened: https://i.imgur.com/yYGNBPg.png


Regardless, in the future, I'm just going to wait a bit longer before entering the roundabout:)

Nice to have someone who comes on and asks advise, listens to it and takes heed; instead of the more oft scenario of people who come on under the guise of asking for advise but really just want people to validate their opinion and argue endlessly when they don't get said validation.

Well done OP!

Isambard

bpmurray wrote: »

This is one of my pet peeves. The Irish approach is to suggest the 12-o-clock rule, which is non-deterministic. I learned to drive in the UK, and the approach to roundabouts is really, really simple and really, really reliable, and never, ever confusing. There are 2 parts:

• Indicating: you indicate left at the exit before you leave the roundabout; you don't indicate two exits before you leave the roundabout; you indicate right otherwise.
• Travelling through the roundabout: at least two exits from where you leave the roundabout, you should move into the left lane; otherwise, stay in whatever lane is appropriate for the speed you're travelling, i.e. there is NO requirement to move into the right-hand lane, since it's the overtaking lane

Here, many people drive around the right-hand lane and try to exit from there, cutting across traffic and almost causing accidents all the time, like the OP referred to. The muppet who wanted to cut across traffic and exit the roundabout was 100% in the wrong! It isn't possible for someone entering the roundabout to guess that someone in the right-hand lane is going to cut across traffic like that.

I don't agree with you. In the UK you can enter by either lane if going straight through, and you do indeed indicate left at the exit before the one you want, but you can stay in the right hand lane and exit in the right hand lane, otherwise, what is it there for? The key thing is to indicate your intentions and for others to note that and not try and pass you on the inside.

Marcusm

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Yeah, whatever. It's the horn-blasting that I take issue with. Way too much of it nowadays, for the slightest mistakes, and it doesn't make the roads any safer. It just creates unnecessary noise and contributes to ill-feeling among road users.

In fairness, absent that beep you might not realise or acknowledge that your driving was substandard.

Isambard

that's not what the horn is for though, it is there solely to warn others of your approach.

Yer Da sells Avon

Marcusm wrote: »

In fairness, absent that beep you might not realise or acknowledge that your driving was substandard.

As a road user, it's not my responsibility to add to general noise pollution for the purpose of 'educating' other road users. It is my responsibility to read the road ahead and anticipate other people's mistakes - and almost 100% of the time, this negates any need for beeping (or heavy braking). Every single day, I notice too many people, especially on roundabouts, accelerating towards the scene of a potential accident, just so they can have their chance to blast their horn at them, presumably filling some void in their own lives.

Marcusm

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

As a road user, it's not my responsibility to add to general noise pollution for the purpose of 'educating' other road users. It is my responsibility to read the road ahead and anticipate other people's mistakes - and almost 100% of the time, this negates any need for beeping (or heavy braking). Every single day, I notice too many people, especially on roundabouts, accelerating towards the scene of a potential accident, just so they can have their chance to blast their horn at them, presumably filling some void in their own lives.

I think you took me up the wrong way; from what you described your driving was sufficiently substandard to suggest you were unaware of the positioning of the other road user and use of the horn was not just advisable but perhaps necessary.

I know realise you are not the OP!