Work Offshored to India

AKE1

Hi, I work in Ireland and our work was offshored to India many months ago and the company has not offered any form of redundancy package? Is this normal? As I would prefer a package.

Instead 8 months later they have offered us a role which is not similar to our previous one - and had no communication with us for those 8 months. HR also do not have a copy of our contracts however we have been working for the company for many years

Any advice would be great

Benildus

Try the 'Work Problems' thread

Here

DubCount

If the alternative offer of employment was "reasonable" then you don't have much choice. I reckon you need to move on and try to find alternative job that you do like. You should have been consulted first - did that happen?

spaceHopper

They can only change your role by making your existing one redundant and are obliged to tell you that you then have to choose between that role and redundancy. Look up redundancy on citizens information. You might find that they will leave you where you are till you leave instead or only pay statutory

Big Bag of Chips

Moved from Personal Issues.

TaurenDruid

AKE1 wrote: »

HR also do not have a copy of our contracts however we have been working for the company for many years

Any advice would be great

Get in touch with a union asap.

Legally you must be given a contract within 30 days of starting in a company so HR not being able to supply a copy of one is dodgy in the extreme.

sexmag

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Get in touch with a union asap.

Legally you must be given a contract within 30 days of starting in a company so HR not being able to supply a copy of one is dodgy in the extreme.

Could also mean that op and their colleagues have contracts but hr don't have a copy on file

AKE1

sexmag wrote: »

Could also mean that op and their colleagues have contracts but hr don't have a copy on file

Thanks Nobody has we TUPEd over to them 6 years ago from a different agency

AKE1

spaceHopper wrote: »

They can only change your role by making your existing one redundant and are obliged to tell you that you then have to choose between that role and redundancy. Look up redundancy on citizens information. You might find that they will leave you where you are till you leave instead or only pay statutory

Thats the issue they wont offer us redundancy just a different role many months later

TG1

spaceHopper wrote: »

They can only change your role by making your existing one redundant and are obliged to tell you that you then have to choose between that role and redundancy. Look up redundancy on citizens information. You might find that they will leave you where you are till you leave instead or only pay statutory

This isn't quite the case, as someone has already said once the offer is deemed reasonable, redundancy does not have to be put on the table. If you turn down a reasonable offer it's deemed as a voluntary resignation.

sexmag

TG1 wrote: »

This isn't quite the case, as someone has already said once the offer is deemed reasonable, redundancy does not have to be put on the table. If you turn down a reasonable offer it's deemed as a voluntary resignation.

But who deems it reasonable? If the employer is inclined they could feel anything is reasonable.

The WRC would have the final say on that

AKE1

sexmag wrote: »

But who deems it reasonable? If the employer is inclined they could feel anything is reasonable.

The WRC would have the final say on that

Thanks for responding everyone! Im unsure what to do, is it reasonable to offer somebody a role 8 months after the work has moved and no communication in that time?

sexmag

AKE1 wrote: »

Thanks for responding everyone! Im unsure what to do, is it reasonable to offer somebody a role 8 months after the work has moved and no communication in that time?

To be honest I don't know but I'm aware of a situation very similar to this, 10 employees had their work off shored and they were given alternate work however it was not similar to what they did before and the union confirmed it so they sat idle for 10 months and now theyve been offered another role that isnt similar but if they don't accept it they will get statutory redundancy, why the company waited 10 months to do this I don't know,it isn't very well run as they work is outsourced to an Indian company as well.

Glass fused light

sexmag wrote: »

To be honest I don't know but I'm aware of a situation very similar to this, 10 employees had their work off shored and they were given alternate work however it was not similar to what they did before and the union confirmed it so they sat idle for 10 months and now theyve been offered another role that isnt similar but if they don't accept it they will get statutory redundancy, why the company waited 10 months to do this I don't know,it isn't very well run as they work is outsourced to an Indian company as well.

The company probably found that while it looks good on paper implementing the outsourcing needs a skill set some senior managers don't have. India can supply cheaper employees the local management time goes through the roof, particularly as the managers have to take account of the time difference and culture differences.

OP if there is no written contract you as a group should employ an employment solicitor and figure out as a group what you each want to do ie do you all want redundancy or do some want to stay employed. Once you all know you can formulate a written contract based on the current work pratice/conditions and an alternative option ie redundancy package and let the solicitor start the negotiations.

AKE1

Glass fused light wrote: »

The company probably found that while it looks good on paper implementing the outsourcing needs a skill set some senior managers don't have. India can supply cheaper employees the local management time goes through the roof, particularly as the managers have to take account of the time difference and culture differences.

OP if there is no written contract you as a group should employ an employment solicitor and figure out as a group what you each want to do ie do you all want redundancy or do some want to stay employed. Once you all know you can formulate a written contract based on the current work pratice/conditions and an alternative option ie redundancy package and let the solicitor start the negotiations.

Thanks Everyone

I suppose our fear is that we would only get statutory if we negotiated it or would there be a chance of a better package would you know?

ED E

Sounds more like you want a payout than you wish to maintain your situation.

sexmag

AKE1 wrote: »

Thanks Everyone

I suppose our fear is that we would only get statutory if we negotiated it or would there be a chance of a better package would you know?

No harm in trying to negoiate but legally they only have to give statutory.

Get a solicitor who deals in employment law and they will be able to tell you if you have a case to fight for a better package

AKE1

ED E wrote: »

Sounds more like you want a payout than you wish to maintain your situation.

100% their not a good employer

BattleCorp

AKE1 wrote: »

Thanks for responding everyone! Im unsure what to do, is it reasonable to offer somebody a role 8 months after the work has moved and no communication in that time?

If the work moved 8 months ago, what have you been doing since?

AKE1

BattleCorp wrote: »

If the work moved 8 months ago, what have you been doing since?

Small amount of work and some days none

They had no communication with us

JustAThought

Sounds like you wern' t an employee.

Is this through an agency?

Something not right in the story here.

Why do none of you have copies of your own contracts?

Before 1 year and a day of continuous employment you have no rights regardless.

HandsomeBob

ED E wrote: »

Sounds more like you want a payout than you wish to maintain your situation.

Doesn't look like that at all to me. If this new role being foisted on the OP and his or her colleagues is unsuitable for whatever reason, be it technical or personal, I see nothing wrong in looking to cut ties for the right sum.

Sycamore Tree

AKE1 wrote: »

Thanks Nobody has we TUPEd over to them 6 years ago from a different agency

If you TUPEed across without a new contract (odd), then your existing contract would still apply. In TUPE, the new company can only match or better the contract terms and conditions of the previous company. TUPE is a defined process so I am surprised you did not go through the details over a few weeks of "negotiations". HR must have a contract from company A or B or they are in breach of employment law. Threaten a visit to the Workplace Relations Commission and their tune might change.

BattleCorp

AKE1 wrote: »

Small amount of work and some days none

They had no communication with us

This has me puzzled. Are you getting paid for the days where you have no work? Are you only working part-time on a zero hour contract?

GreeBo

might have a case for constructive dismissal if they have left you for 8 months scratching yourselves

BattleCorp

GreeBo wrote: »

might have a case for constructive dismissal if they have left you for 8 months scratching yourselves

Be grand if you were being paid.

GreeBo

BattleCorp wrote: »

Be grand if you were being paid.

Not if you want a career

gandalf

AKE1 wrote: »

Thanks Everyone

I suppose our fear is that we would only get statutory if we negotiated it or would there be a chance of a better package would you know?

From what I can understand you have been moved to an Indian outsourcing company via Tupe? Is this the case, if it is I think you should realistically be prepared for the bare minimum from them. I'd suggest talking to an expert in this area ie go to an employment solicitor.

Having gone through redundancies a couple of time everything needs to be clear cut and unambiguous. The fact you have been offered a position means the water is muddied and whilst you consider it a different job the company could argue that it is an equivalent. Talk to a professional about this situation.