best type of insulation and changing glass in double glazing windows

kala85

looking for opinions on improving the insulation of a house which was originally built in late 1990s . The house is a bungalow and I am looking for opinions on the pros and cons of different types of insulation - beads vs foam etc.

Also is there a grant that can be got to offset the cost.

I am also looking at upgrading the glass in the double glazing. is this worth doing?

BryanF

kala85 wrote: »

looking for opinions on improving the insulation of a house which was originally built in late 1990s . The house is a bungalow and I am looking for opinions on the
1. pros and cons of different types of insulation - beads vs foam etc.

2. Also is there a grant that can be got to offset the cost.

3. I am also looking at upgrading the glass in the double glazing. is this worth doing?

1. Read around the forum, there is lots of detailed posts going back 10+ years. IMO beads are still the safer retrofit option. To be installed subject cavity inspection by a suitably qualified installer, that will be recommended by a recognised/ certified bonded bead system manufacturer
2. Yes. Search the SEAI website.
3. Yes. Triple would be better.

kala85

Can anyone else give me information above or post links to good threads.

I had a good search around but cannot find any information on it.

KaneToad

Bumping this old thread but with a similar question.

I have double glazed uPVC windows. They're in about 15 years, since the house was built. There are 16 (3 large, 11 on the smaller side, 2 small -bathroom & utility) and 2 double french doors.

Is it worth my while, for improved heat and sound insulation, in replacing the glass only for some triple glazed glass/ or similar modern glass.

Financially I don't think I'd be in a position to change frames aswell, hence my query.

Does changing the glass deliver some of the improvements I'm looking for?

I'd be interested in hearing from those who have some first hand knowledge/experience of this.

KaneToad

Oh...and just to add to the above...

Has anyone had any recent experience with retro drylining a timber framed house?

I understand that the external option isn't a runner. If it was, it would probably be out of my price range regardless..

fatty pang

There is minimal benefit in trying to squeeze triple-glazing into frames designed to accept double-glazing except to people flogging that particular service. If using an argon fill the optimum cavity width between the panes of glass is circa 16mm for double-glazing and 16-18mm for triple-glazing. (If krypton is used those cavity widths reduce but krypton is very expensive whereas argon is cheap as chips.)
Your existing double-glazing is probably anywhere between 24-28mm thick. Even 28mm doesn’t allow enough room for ‘cost-effective’ triple-glazing.

You will also get better sound reduction in this instance from double-glazing rather than triple-glazing. Sufficient cavity width is also important for sound reduction as is having asymmetric glass thicknesses.

Given the age of your existing windows it’s questionable if they would have LowE coating on them. Such coatings significantly reduce heat loss and if the frames are as you say in good condition, I would advise just replacing the glass and the gaskets. To check, wait until it’s dark and hold a flame close enough to the glass so that you can see the reflections. If one of the 4 reflections is a different colour from the others then you have a LowE coating on one of the surfaces.

I would recommend asymmetric double-glazing that has one (outer) pane laminated. This will reduce sound transmission (sound-proof is a misnomer), provide additional security and virtually eliminate uv light responsible for fading of fabrics.

KaneToad

fatty pang wrote: »

There is minimal benefit in trying to squeeze triple-glazing into frames designed to accept double-glazing except to people flogging that particular service....

You will also get better sound reduction in this instance from double-glazing rather than triple-glazing. Sufficient cavity width is also important for sound reduction as is having asymmetric glass thicknesses.

Given the age of your existing windows it’s questionable if they would have LowE coating on them. Such coatings significantly reduce heat loss and if the frames are as you say in good condition, I would advise just replacing the glass and the gaskets. To check, wait until it’s dark and hold a flame close enough to the glass so that you can see the reflections. If one of the 4 reflections is a different colour from the others then you have a LowE coating on one of the surfaces.

I would recommend asymmetric double-glazing that has one (outer) pane laminated. This will reduce sound transmission (sound-proof is a misnomer), provide additional security and virtually eliminate uv light responsible for fading of fabrics.

Many thanks for the informed reply. I will check tonight for the LowE coating.

When I say the frames are ok, I mean that when I close the window the opening seems to seal quite well. Is there anything else I should be looking at?

I assume that the u-value of my existing 15yr old frame is not as good as a more modern uPVC frame? But has the technology of frames moved on as much as the glazing technology?

BryanF

Is the existing 15 year old windows the Bentley or lada of their time?

I’ve window frames about 15years old that have frame that are maybe 4w/m2k and windows installed 3 years ago that are maybe 1w/m2k

But there are still people selling crap windows.

KaneToad

BryanF wrote: »

Is the existing 15 year old windows the Bentley or lada of their time?

I’ve window frames about 15years old that have frame that are maybe 4w/m2k and windows installed 3 years ago that are maybe 1w/m2k

But there are still people selling crap windows.

Good question! I've no idea of the answer though.

They are white, chunky and I think they're Munster Joinery - based on the serial number on the glass.

How would I know if they were high quality or not? They were in the house when I bought it. Is there any markings on the frames that would identify their type/quality?

BryanF

There are budget windows and may just comply with min standards of their time. This is probably about 3w/m2k

KaneToad

BryanF wrote: »

There are budget windows and may just comply with min standards of their time. This is probably about 3w/m2k

With that in mind, would it be folly to replace glass and leave old frames?

Mind you, the alternative, to replace frames & glass is out of budget. Particularly since I have to cover cost of drylining too.

Is secondary glazing an option? Or is that as expensive with lesser insulation outcomes?

BryanF

KaneToad wrote: »

1. With that in mind, would it be folly to replace glass and leave old frames?

2. Mind you, the alternative, to replace frames & glass is out of budget. Particularly since I have to cover cost of drylining too.

3. Is secondary glazing an option?
4. Or is that as expensive with lesser insulation outcomes?

1. Yes
2. All the more reason to change the frames at the same time. Carefully consider due point of wall when drylinning.
3. Why would you do that?
4. Creates different set of problems

KaneToad

BryanF wrote: »

1. Yes
2. All the more reason to change the frames at the same time. Carefully consider due point of wall when drylinning.
3. Why would you do that?
4. Creates different set of problems

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I suppose it all comes down to cost. Ultimately, I won't be able to afford to do everything - drylining & full window replacement. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do "the next best" option.

(Hence my exploration of changing glass only, or secondary glazing - in the hope that they are cheaper options with similar insulating outcomes as a full window change.)

But maybe there is no suitable compromise option?

Maybe I'll only be able to do either drylining or full window replacement. Will have to look at costs and figure out which would deliver best bang for buck?

MicktheMan

KaneToad wrote: »

But maybe there is no suitable compromise option?

Maybe I'll only be able to do either drylining or full window replacement. Will have to look at costs and figure out which would deliver best bang for buck?

Maybe (and more than likely probably) you have more options.

Have you considered having a heat loss survey done first, then deciding on where to spend based on solid information. Ime, too many people spend money needlessly on ineffective measures while missing out on the key measures.

yabadabado

BryanF wrote: »

There are budget windows and may just comply with min standards of their time. This is probably about 3w/m2k

Is there a way to tell from checking windows for serial no. or some other identification?

Would like to find out for my own place as thinking of changing soon .

KaneToad

MicktheMan wrote: »

Maybe (and more than likely probably) you have more options.

Have you considered having a heat loss survey done first, then deciding on where to spend based on solid information. Ime, too many people spend money needlessly on ineffective measures while missing out on the key measures.

I have and probably will. But at this stage, given the public health issues, I'm trying to educate myself about a topic I know nothing about. I've never built or renovated anything - all feedback/opinions greatly appreciated!

burdburd

one option is to do the north facing side of the house - complete new windows. and come back to the rest in a few years time.

I am renovating sash windows, just started the 1st one a week or so ago as a trial - going well except, I am finding it difficult to find a double glazing panel only (preferably thin Double glazing) supplier in Ireland. any suggestions welcome.

If I get the 1st one done in may/june i will press ahead with two more this summer and then planning (budgeting) to do 3 bigs ones next year and 3 more big ones the following year.

KaneToad wrote: »

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I suppose it all comes down to cost. Ultimately, I won't be able to afford to do everything - drylining & full window replacement. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do "the next best" option.

(Hence my exploration of changing glass only, or secondary glazing - in the hope that they are cheaper options with similar insulating outcomes as a full window change.)

But maybe there is no suitable compromise option?

Maybe I'll only be able to do either drylining or full window replacement. Will have to look at costs and figure out which would deliver best bang for buck?

macannrb

if you are thinking about dry lining, to reduce termal bridges, would you need to move the position of the frames anyway, to get the most of of the dry lining?

I had understood that it was optimal to do both at the same time, but most people who do dry lining don't bother moving the window frames because of the extra cost -however doing both at the same time would be optimal.