Family PHEV / BEV conversion thoughts

jackc101

Hi boardies,
Can I present a scenario that I'm trying to get my head around.
We're a two car family, 07 Mazda6 Diesel that's threatening to have DPF issues and 12 Skoda Octavia Diesel (brilliantly large boot) for my other half & transporting small person no. 1. Small person 2 due in Oct.

I've too much car in the Mazda6 (though I love every bit of it's 143bhp) & recent reliability issue is making me nervous of it.
My standard commute is bikeable, so I need something to handle rainy day city driving (I'm a lazy sod) plus 6 round trips of 100 km per month to a different office with no present chance of charging. (50 km there & 50 km back)
My OH is classic city driving commute & parental taxi that strikes me as ideal for BEV but the Skoda is used for the longer family trips to Dublin, Cavan, etc. once every 6 months
We have our own driveway and installation of a charger is possible.

Realistically we're looking at the dreaded 3 car seats/boosters problem in the future and my OH would love something with a higher driving position & better protection for smallies (despite my protestations about the Mowag AFV used by the army also fitting that description)
A substantial boot is also a must, the buggy is bloody enormous (bugaboo donkey for the buggy spotters out there)
Budget restrictions would be need to keep it reasonable, under 20K.

Option 1; 2nd hand Nissan Leaf for me and leave herself in the Octavia until we get to the 3rd small person and see what's on the market then
Pro's: I get a Leaf. I passed 3 on the 50 km commute home yesterday
Con's: Would a 2nd hand leaf battery handle 100km?

Option 2; 2nd Hand Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and I take over the Skoda until funds are replenished.
Pro's; OH gets an Outlander to squash her enemies, Battery covers all her typical usage and still have ICE for when other car gets eventually replaced by BEV.
Con's: OH gets an Outlander to squash her enemies. Her enemies might include other cars in suburban car parks. It's a big lump of a thing.

Option 3; Keep saving, wait on a some of the new SUV types to hit the second hand market next year
Pro's: More of a selection, especially in the SUV / crossover space
Con's: My Mazda will last until the end of 2019 but I wonder...

Your thoughts greatly welcome!

ewj1978

Option 1: 30kwh SVE/tekna. easily under €20k( £13-15k in UK) and will easily handle 100km.
Option 2: Lovely big machine. My OH is demanding one. I'm resisting.
Option 3: Kia NIRO next year(maybe) will be a larger SUV. no prices confirmed yet but I'd be guessing €35-40 for the 64kw battery.

unkel

All good options, but I feel the guts of €20k is far too much to be spending on a '16 L30

I would get a good '14 or '15 L24 myself for not much more than half that money and keep it forever as a second car. With a light foot you should be able to make the 100km round trip most days. And when the weather is really bad in winter, you will need a 5-10 minute fast charge if there is one on the way or not far off your way. That's the con. The pro is that you can save up for a bigger SUV (with a headstart of €10k in your pocket) with a large battery in a year or two as your second EV

jackc101

Ok, running with your suggestions, second hand Nissan Leaf that I could import, or through the reputable sourcers here and keep more of my powder dry until it's time to replace the family Car with something SUV like.

That con would be a potential stop when / if the range drops below 100km at
Bandon CHAdeMO DC 45kW (Occupied) according to the ecars app at the 67 km mark on the way home.

zilog_jones

Yeah, I think a 24 kWh Leaf would be too close for comfort for a 100 km round trip unless you had charging at the destination. It will handle that range fine, and battery degradation has been insignificant so far (for 2nd generation batteries, which you'd be getting at that budget), but any detours or charger disruption could potentially leave you stranded. Assuming you're talking like Clonakilty to Cork city, as you've probably seen you're quite limited in terms of public charging.

unkel

zilog_jones wrote: »

Yeah, I think a 24 kWh Leaf would be too close for comfort for a 100 km round trip

Indeed there will be days the car won't be able to do it. But a 30 minute topup at even a slow charger (over 1000 of these in the country) will do the trick or a 5 minute topup at a fast charger. A granny cable at work, etc.

For the money saving, I would go this route. Eyes open to the above.

jackc101

unkel wrote: »

Indeed there will be days the car won't be able to do it. But a 30 minute topup at even a slow charger (over 1000 of these in the country) will do the trick or a 5 minute topup at a fast charger. A granny cable at work, etc.

For the money saving, I would go this route. Eyes open to the above.

Ok, can I paint a picture here and tell me if I'm wrong;
Import a 2014 24kW Leaf (Stg£9,999 on cargiant for example) Not sure how you'd classify the battery usage/wear without getting your hands on it with an app?
Fully charge at home, cold wet day in West Cork and on the way home the readout is telling me I've a range of 25 - 30Km left when there's actually 33Km to go.

ESB tells me the only realistic stop is this one in Bandon
CHAdeMO DC 45kW (Available)
Combo DC 45kW (Available)
Fast AC (Type-2) 43kW (Available)

Am I looking at 5 minutes or 25 minutes to get me over the line? (Will the spuds be soggy or just ruined!)

zilog_jones

The only fast chargers in west Cork are Bandon and Macroom. The Leaf needs CHAdeMO for fast charging, otherwise you'd be charging at a rate of 3.3 or 6.6 kW on a standard AC charger depending on which on-board charger your Leaf has (6.6 kW charger was optional extra, or standard on 30 kWh model?)

jackc101

zilog_jones wrote: »

The only fast chargers in west Cork are Bandon and Macroom. The Leaf needs CHAdeMO for fast charging, otherwise you'd be charging at a rate of 3.3 or 6.6 kW on a standard AC charger depending on which on-board charger your Leaf has (6.6 kW charger was optional extra, or standard on 30 kWh model?)

Ok, so the one in Bandon is the one on my route - is that the one on the bypass?

Shefwedfan

I would not even bother looking at Leaf 24kWh, you will end up wrecking your head on the days you commute because if anything happens you will be in trouble. If going Leaf then at least the 30kWh. You might save a few quid for the 24kWh but you will just end up with stress from it...check boot, I struggled to get Phil & Ted into it, mind you I didn't spend a huge amount of time at it....

With a 20k budget you could splash out and buy eGolf Gen 1, it will do 100km no problem. I get 120km no issue. At the moment I am at 150km. Driver in Limerick does 170km each day no issue, I have no idea how :-) Boot size is good, easier to get items in & out compared to Leaf

If you save a few quid could invest in Multimac, that is how I got around the child seat problem. I got the 1260 which fits into eGolf so the middle 2 seats are larger so you can get older kids in.

Outlander is great car, massive boot so no problem there. You will use up full budget for the Outlander and still have a fuel overhead.

You will be waiting a long time for a larger SUV type vehicle. The Niro etc are quite small and I know all about trying to put buggies into the back of them. It will be a struggle.

So after my ramble. I would go
Remove 1 fuel bill from household. So either L30 or eGolf or something similar. You should be able to work out how much fuel cost you will save and then put that back into saving to replace other car, moving to night/day meter and swapping white good around should help keep electricity bill at current cost. So fuel for electric is free :-) more or less

In terms of the cars, if the Mazda giving any issues at the moment? personally I would keep the Mazda and sell the Octavia now. You will be losing more each year on the Octavia than on the Mazda which has probably not costing you much now anyway.....get a mechanic to do a full check up before hand.....the depreciation on the Mazda will be less per year

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

With a 20k budget you could splash out and buy eGolf Gen 1

That's actually not a bad suggestion. Cheapest eGolf on Autotrader is £15k and it has an EPA range of 134km. That's about the same as a Leaf 24kWh but I suspect in real life the eGolf would do much better than the Leaf

About the same money as buying a Leaf 30kWh but I'd say the eGolf will keep its value better. It's smaller than the Leaf, but a vastly superior car allround

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

That's actually not a bad suggestion. Cheapest eGolf on Autotrader is £15k and it has an EPA range of 134km. That's about the same as a Leaf 24kWh but I suspect in real life the eGolf would do much better than the Leaf

About the same money as buying a Leaf 30kWh but I'd say the eGolf will keep its value better. It's smaller than the Leaf, but a vastly superior car allround

The Leaf doesn’t support the Multimac 1260, only the smaller version. I would have thought that meant the back seats are smaller?

BobMac104

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201807028044772?advertising-location=at_cars&keywords=94ah&postcode=l10aa&model=I3&page=1&make=BMW&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

This would do your commute no prob. Bit small maybe though.

Shefwedfan

BobMac104 wrote: »

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201807028044772?advertising-location=at_cars&keywords=94ah&postcode=l10aa&model=I3&page=1&make=BMW&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

This would do your commute no prob. Bit small maybe though.

Its 20k UKP so would be over budget. Also as REX do you have to pay VRT?

BobMac104

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Its 20k UKP so would be over budget. Also as REX do you have to pay VRT?

Yep, right on both counts.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201807138411604?advertising-location=at_cars&keywords=94ah&postcode=l10aa&model=I3&page=1&make=BMW&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

Here's a BEV version for the same money but a year younger. Could have it landed for 22 ish? Over budget still in fairness.

jackc101

The fear would be with a cheaper 24kW Leaf that I would be adding a previously unnecessary charging stop to my commute and I could see that driving me nuts.

I'll have a look at the eGolf now thanks for the tips.

Realistically I'll push out replacing the Mazda as far as humanly possible although the idea of maximising the newer Skodas value from Shefwedfan was something I hadn't thought of before.

Shefwedfan

jackc101 wrote: »

The fear would be with a cheaper 24kW Leaf that I would be adding a previously unnecessary charging stop to my commute and I could see that driving me nuts.

I'll have a look at the eGolf now thanks for the tips.

Realistically I'll push out replacing the Mazda as far as humanly possible although the idea of maximising the newer Skodas value from Shefwedfan was something I hadn't thought of before.

I think you would be mental to go for a 24kWh, for that commute you have a huge risk of having to do a stop to charge....you would get bored very quickly, especially in winter

jackc101

Discussing car matters with my other half, pointing out our driving profiles;
She of the small commute and kid taxi duties
I of the 100km round trip commute (6 per month)

She does not want a small car

I think a youtube review of a Nissan leaf from a car seat, buggy & child perspective might be on this evenings viewing list...

PixelTrawler

We just picked up a 2015 outlander phev. Herself is expecting with twins so the big pram vs my little astra was not a good match.

The boot is a cave. Its exactly what we needed.

Its big alright but surprisingly easy to drive. We got a UK import via a main dealer in Dublin but we also upgraded the standard car stereo to a pioneer sat nav unit with reverse camera which helps a bit. The main dealer arranged this for us. It has rear sensors also built in but our one doesnt have the front sensors (some do).

Our daily driving is low so it suits well. Not sure how well the big petrol engine would suit a longer commute.... ive yet to do any long motorway driving on it.

Came in under 20k including the pioneer upgrade.

Shefwedfan

jackc101 wrote: »

Discussing car matters with my other half, pointing out our driving profiles;
She of the small commute and kid taxi duties
I of the 100km round trip commute (6 per month)

She does not want a small car

I think a youtube review of a Nissan leaf from a car seat, buggy & child perspective might be on this evenings viewing list...

Youtube is fairly useless to be honest....

The only way is the buggy test....rock down to local dealer and look at Leaf, then bring in buggy and test it. I even bring in car seats(Axiss) with me some of the time to make sure I have space......

I get odd looks but if I am spending big money on a car who cares, I will never see those people again

og2k7

PixelTrawler wrote: »

We just picked up a 2015 outlander phev. Herself is expecting with twins so the big pram vs my little astra was not a good match.

The boot is a cave. Its exactly what we needed.

Its big alright but surprisingly easy to drive. We got a UK import via a main dealer in Dublin but we also upgraded the standard car stereo to a pioneer sat nav unit with reverse camera which helps a bit. The main dealer arranged this for us. It has rear sensors also built in but our one doesnt have the front sensors (some do).

Our daily driving is low so it suits well. Not sure how well the big petrol engine would suit a longer commute.... ive yet to do any long motorway driving on it.

Came in under 20k including the pioneer upgrade.

Can you share the details of the sat nav? what camera did you get? does this pull the other info: as in charging info that you would normally get in the higher models?

Thanks!

jackc101

Funnily enough I just broke out my spreadsheet and the boot space is an interesting one for me as in theory I'd be be replacing the
Skoda Octavia, boot 590L with the
Outlander PHEV, boot 463L
for the big buggy, etc

PixelTrawler

og2k7 wrote: »

Can you share the details of the sat nav? what camera did you get? does this pull the other info: as in charging info that you would normally get in the higher models?

Thanks!

Sat nav is a pioneer 230dab. Not sure if the camera is pioneer. It has no link to any data on the car but the car does show some limited data in the display in between the main dials in the dash. Its very basic, just showing where power is going and range left.

The steering wheel controls work fine with the pioneer. The screen is... ok and the sound quality is a bit muddy. Need to work on the settings. Theres a usb port in the glove box. So just plug in an iphone or android. We both use android, so we have a choice of waze or google maps.

Shefwedfan

jackc101 wrote: »

Funnily enough I just broke out my spreadsheet and the boot space is an interesting one for me as in theory I'd be be replacing the
Skoda Octavia, boot 590L with the
Outlander PHEV, boot 463L
for the big buggy, etc

I dont know about the Octavi abut when I had Passat/A6 and Mondeo's the boot was huge but because of the design you couldn't really fill it up....maybe suit cases but that was it....

I find the Crossover/MPV/SUV boots are a lot better....especially for buggies

jackc101

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I find the Crossover/MPV/SUV boots are a lot better....especially for buggies

Interesting point but the hatchback on the Octavia makes it cavernous too. All will be revealed when I get I get a chance to test drive and arrive with 2 car seats, cranky toddler, heavily pregnant wife and a giant buggy

We're currently playing spot the SUV/crossovers when we're driving around at the minute and as an aside, there are some number of Quashai's on the road & for sale. My OH is also after taking a shine to the looks of the Kajar too.

I'm of a mind to hop over to the UK and get an outlander PHEV in the GX4h spec (specifically for the reversing camera) as the main family car and then in 2-3 years time, convert the second car to BEV once I can find one that'll consistently do 100km within budget.

Shefwedfan

jackc101 wrote: »

Interesting point but the hatchback on the Octavia makes it cavernous too. All will be revealed when I get I get a chance to test drive and arrive with 2 car seats, cranky toddler, heavily pregnant wife and a giant buggy

We're currently playing spot the SUV/crossovers when we're driving around at the minute and as an aside, there are some number of Quashai's on the road & for sale. My OH is also after taking a shine to the looks of the Kajar too.

I'm of a mind to hop over to the UK and get an outlander PHEV in the GX4h spec (specifically for the reversing camera) as the main family car and then in 2-3 years time, convert the second car to BEV once I can find one that'll consistently do 100km within budget.

This is what I was told when we went shopping for replacement to SMAX

"You try and pack up a f**king buggy when you have a few kids running around and cars flying about etc etc....shopping in my arms....in my SMAX I can just throw it in and worry about it when home"

We bought a Galaxy :P

The Qashqai and Kadjar are the same thing. We had the 2012 model. The boot is about the same size as eGolf. The huge advantage with all of those Crossover is the height, especially when putting kids in & out. Hence why if I swap eGolf I will be looking at Crossover.....my back ain't getting any younger and my children ain't getting any lighter :P

macnab

Take into consideration that a 24kw Leaf will be useless for a few hours while it charges after your 100km round trip.
A 30kw Leaf wil still have at least 40km and maybe as much as 90km in reserve.
Range anxiety can be a constant problem if you buy the wrong car. Been there, done that.

jackc101

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This is what I was told when we went shopping for replacement to SMAX

"You try and pack up a f**king buggy when you have a few kids running around and cars flying about etc etc....shopping in my arms....in my SMAX I can just throw it in and worry about it when home"

We bought a Galaxy :P

The Qashqai and Kadjar are the same thing. We had the 2012 model. The boot is about the same size as eGolf. The huge advantage with all of those Crossover is the height, especially when putting kids in & out. Hence why if I swap eGolf I will be looking at Crossover.....my back ain't getting any younger and my children ain't getting any lighter :P

I sense Shefwedfan and I are dealing with similar issues
There it is - the ability to literally lash the buggy and shopping into the boot without having to overthink it are probably a factor

Messaging a local dealer with three Outlander PHEV in a "pending" state now to see if it would do the trick

jackc101

Quick update
Had a test drive with my OH Saturday, great experience of the Outlander PHEV.
The whosh as my OH took off for her test drive while I was holding the small fella was gas.
No issues with it, price was fair for the models we saw
http://www.electricautos.ie/vehicles/mitsubishi/outlander/kildare/2069837

Verging on bangernomics now but the money I'd get as a trade in for an 07 Mazda 6 2.0 Diesel exec, 110k miles done is pretty low, €750 to 1250, no fault of the two places that that considered it for trade in but I get the impression there is a lot more miles left on it, so I'll hold onto it and save away

FriendsEV

jackc101 wrote: »

Quick update
Had a test drive with my OH Saturday, great experience of the Outlander PHEV.
The whosh as my OH took off for her test drive while I was holding the small fella was gas.
No issues with it, price was fair for the models we saw
http://www.electricautos.ie/vehicles/mitsubishi/outlander/kildare/2069837

Verging on bangernomics now but the money I'd get as a trade in for an 07 Mazda 6 2.0 Diesel exec, 110k miles done is pretty low, €750 to 1250, no fault of the two places that that considered it for trade in but I get the impression there is a lot more miles left on it, so I'll hold onto it and save away

Good choice

Crazy to spend 25k when the 1k Mazda you have will go on for years if looked after

Shefwedfan

jackc101 wrote: »

Quick update
Had a test drive with my OH Saturday, great experience of the Outlander PHEV.
The whosh as my OH took off for her test drive while I was holding the small fella was gas.
No issues with it, price was fair for the models we saw
http://www.electricautos.ie/vehicles/mitsubishi/outlander/kildare/2069837

Verging on bangernomics now but the money I'd get as a trade in for an 07 Mazda 6 2.0 Diesel exec, 110k miles done is pretty low, €750 to 1250, no fault of the two places that that considered it for trade in but I get the impression there is a lot more miles left on it, so I'll hold onto it and save away

It is always a trade off. My wife laughs because I buy X car and say I will run it into the ground. Then I see something new and shiny and I impulse buy :P


How you like the spec? I seen it is the GX3H model?



With the unknowns coming in the budget it might be better to hold on. Your not going to lose any value in the Mazda in the next 6 months. You might have a better view of the market in 6 months.

jackc101

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It is always a trade off. My wife laughs because I buy X car and say I will run it into the ground. Then I see something new and shiny and I impulse buy :P


How you like the spec? I seen it is the GX3H model?



With the unknowns coming in the budget it might be better to hold on. Your not going to lose any value in the Mazda in the next 6 months. You might have a better view of the market in 6 months.

Yep, sounds like the plan, wait out what happens in the Budget and see what happens on the Brexit front too, while also saving hard.

(Anyone foresee problems importing cars post Brexit?)

Spec was good, I've seen people suggesting the GX4h spec but apart from the reversing camera I can live without the rest. The sensors will do that job for us. Now if a higher spec model was to appear I wouldn't turn my nose up at it either or if I went importing myself!
The boot was actually mildly smaller than the Skoda octavia we use as the main family car but not to the degree that I'd rule it out at all.

My OH was thrilled with it as it'll be her main set of wheels, but not so happy that we test drove something that we might not get for 6 months