Baggage Delay Query

Claiomh

Hi all, just looking for some advice on this as I'm unsure who is at fault and how to proceed with a reimbursement claim.

I flew from Dublin to Sydney last week, via London to see a close friend get married(A rare trip away and one I was really looking forward to). Unfortunatley, due to a delay leaving Dublin, the onward connection was missed. Aer Lingus booked me onto a different carrier for the next morning and organised an overnight in London. So far, so good.

On check-in the next morning I gave them the baggage tag as I had been told to do, and was told that it would possibly be a day late arriving, but to file a missing bag report when I landed if that was the case.

My bag didn't make the flight and I did just that on arrival. However, here is where it gets complicated- my bag never made it to Australia, until after I had already left (5 days later). The strange thing is that the bag was never handed off to the rebooked airline (Qatar), but stayed in the possession of the original carrier that I should have flown with to Sydney (Thai). They sent notice that the bag would be loaded every day, but failed to do so for a number of days.

Qatar are now saying that I should have been given the bag once rebooked and they have no liability in the case as no bag was checked in with them. My questions relate to this whole thing- I thought that once a bag was in transit it was not possible to get it- is the true?

I was told by Aer Lingus to hand the baggage tag to the check-in agent whilst checking in, and did so. Should this bag have been given to Qatar by Thai, and is it unusual for an airline to hold onto a bag for so long and then fly it to a final destination?

My feeling is that something went wrong on this- either a miscommunication or mistake somewhere, but I am unsure if I should have done anything differently. Can any tell me what would usually happen in this circumstance and who is liable for the reimbursement claim? (I ended up having to buy clothes and organise a suit hire at short notice)

As an aside, my bag should have followed my home quickly, but it's now got lost on the way back too!

Thanks for all you advice!

Remothenemo

Claiomh wrote: »

Qatar are now saying that I should have been given the bag once rebooked and they have no liability in the case as no bag was checked in with them. My questions relate to this whole thing- I thought that once a bag was in transit it was not possible to get it- is the true?

When you stay overnight it mean the check in process starts over again, e.g queing up to drop your bag. its very rare for an airline will hold your bag overnight, maybe in their hub. I believe you didnt pickup the bag in london.

At check in @ dub where did the agent say the bag will end up? The reason i ask is because airlines have agreements/partnership which will affect the destination of your bag. For example Your bag may end up in your final destination but you will have to re-check in at the transit airport to obtain boarding pass- in this case passengers are told to show bag receipt to agent(at transit airport) to ensure bag is known and in the system. When rebooked the agent should tell you the bag needs to be picked up. perhaps you confused the msg.

Qator or Thai never had your bag , its was in the lost property section in london not in the tranzit zone.

There are many possible ways of this going wrong. So i will ask the following question.

On the bag receipt - what is the final destination/ or what cities does it say?



If its anyones fault its aer lingus or you ...based on current info. The overnight stay in london restarted the process, meaning london was final destination that day and the beginning city in the next day.

In general rebooking does cause communication isuees with airlines causing lost bags and airlines wont accept fault. The bag receipt will answer that.

Claiomh

Thats interesting- I wasn't aware that overnighting meant that the check-in process started all over again. I have been stuck overnight with rebookings before and was never able to collect baggage, hence why it didn't seem strange to me.

The baggage tag did state Sydney as it's final destination, with the tag reading DUB-LHR, LHR-BKK, BKK-SYD,along with the flight numbers, and before boarding I had already obtained boarding passes for the first and last leg of the journey. I was checked in for all 3 flights but the boarding card for the second leg wasnt available. I queried this with Aer Lingus on check in in Dublin and was told that I would pick it from the service agent airside, which is exactly what happened on the return journey.

There were a number of passengers who were making the same connection as I was, and who were rebooked along with me and none picked up their bags. Its possible that I could have misunderstood the message, but its unlikely all would make the same mistake. When I was rebooked, I was told to present the baggage tag at check in the next morning but that is all. Had this been flagged even in the morning, I would have had 3 hours to retrieve the bag and return with it to check in. As it happens, I was simply told by the check in desk that it was ok, and possible that the bag would arrive a day late, but to file a missing bag report if it didn't arrive with me.

I hope that answers your questions- as you can imagine it's been a bit of a headache trying to figure it all out.

Remothenemo

The bag tag receipt is from the original flight DUB - LHR LHR-BKK, BKK - SYD, lets say 10 july. But after rebooking now the bag journey is LHR-DOH, DOH - SYD 11th Jul. The bag itinerary is completely different. The bag tag numbers will be different .

Maybe they retagged the bag in the morning???

'' I was told to present the baggage tag at check in the next morning but that is all''

I guess Aer lingus kept your bag overnight? most people would want their bags for the hotel...

Who did you check in with in LHR? QATAR? Did the agent have a confused look on his/her face when presented with bag tag receipt.

Basically THAI airlines has nothing to do with you anyway more , why would they get your bag when you are no longer flying their aircraft.

I believe this is what should of what happen.

You got re-booked after you checked in dublin , there the bag tag is DUB-LHR,LHR-BKK,BKK-SYD. However since its not possible for YOU to make LHR - BKK since delay the bag stayed in LHR and you overnighted in LHR. Since aer lingus told you NOT to pick up bag in LHR , my guess is that they make new tags for the bag and transfer it to QATAR airlines in LHR. Thats unnecessary work for aer lingus to do plus its a inconvenience for all parties (aer lingus,YOU,QATAR)...its better for you to pick up bag and check- in in LHR at Qatar desk.That why i believe that did not happen.

However even if it did happen its aer lingus fault for not giving bags to qatar.

In addition the bag receipt you received from aer lingus is further proof of aer lingus incompetence.(wrong date + wrong cities)


In terms of transiting , if you miss your 2nd leg of your journey , so will your bag (in theory). every bag must be accounted for.

Who told you your bag might arrive late ? What was there reason? That's very odd even in the event of a rebooking.


I work in airport, ill ask some aer lingus staff + baggage reclaim agents.

Claiomh

Thanks for your reply- Ill try to answer your questions in order.

There were between 16-25 passengers who were making the same connection as I was and who were all rebooked that evening. Of course most would want their bags, but nobody who was booked into the overnight hotel ended up with it- this is why I was asking about should the baggage have been given to me.

Because of the large number of passengers connecting, and the delay in landing, we had been met at the gate by two members of staff who were to take us from the Aer Lingus flight to the Thai one. We were close enough to making it when one of them received a call that the flight was closed, and they brought us to the Aer Lingus desk airside for rebooking.

I checked in the following morning with Qatar. They were aware of the rebooking, but apparently there had been a mistake made with it. A ticket number had been generated but not a booking number (or something like that- she remarked that its usually the other way around). The woman at the desk took the baggage tag and said that the bag might arrive 24 hours late, and in the worst case, possibly 72, and if it was not there in Sydney, to file a missing bag report. Because this was said, I was still unaware that my bag should have been retrieved for me the night before, and I would still have had time to sort this out. I'm not sure there was a reason given for the delay, just that these things happen.

What further complicates this, is the my bag did eventually make it to Sydney, but with Thai Airways, and flying the original routing. This would suggest no retagging of the bag. Aer Lingus didn't issue a new bag tag to me, the only one I have reads DUB-LHR,LHR-BKK,BKK-SYD, with the original flight numbers.

I was lucky enough to get a copy of the forwarding on report for the bag, which was generated after I filed the missing bag report. On it, the bag was due to be loading onto a Thai flight the next day and arrive in Sydney on July 6th- this is why I thought that the bag was in Thais possession. As I mentioned before, they claimed they were loading it for a number of days on this report, before it finally arrived on July 8th. The previous times the report also had the code RL 54, which the baggage handler in Sydney means that they were claiming they didn't get the bag from Aer Lingus.

I've tried to keep as much paperwork as possible as I know these things can be complicated.

Thanks for any information and insight you can provide- I appreciate it!

Remothenemo

There are many possible scenarios where each airline is at fault.

note: DUB- LHR(EI), LHR-BKK(THAI),BKK-SYD(THAI)
LHR-DOH(Qatar) , DOH- SYD(Qatar) - Airline in parentheses is responsible for your bag in each leg.

'this is why I was asking about should the baggage have been given to me'

Its is your bag , what if you have medication in the bag, need clean clothes, need to brush your hair teeth etc etc. 100% this is not right and is aer lingus fault for not giving you your bag. Plus this is very hard to believe , not just from an airline industry perspective, but using common sense, how could 16-25 people not demand their bag for overnight stay in a hotel. ----airlingus fault


I dont think its qatar fault at all, the qatar agent told you at check in, the bag will come 24/72 HRS late meaning the bag is not in LHR or lost in LHR. And since the this is your 1st point of contact of with qatar , the fault is either with thai or aer lingus.

So in london , only 1 or 2 airlines have touched your bag, aer lingus and/or Thai. Here is 2 reasons why the bag will come 24/72 hours late.
- Aer lingus lost your bag in LHR
- THAI put your bags into plane for BKK

if the bag actually travelled to BKK on the original flight on the original day. very unlikely thats 16-25 bags are unaccounted for, or maybe just ur bag.
This piece of information was told to qatar that's why the agent foreshadowed a LATE bag. So since the bag is in BKK then THAI will bring it to SYD. This piece of information is crucial. SomeTHING bad happened before you started your journey in LHR.

If the bag was simply lost in LHR. This piece of information was told to qatar that's why the agent foreshadowed a LATE bag. Then once the bag was found it was Flown from LHR - BKK ,BKK-SYD BY THAI.
IN this case it's aer lingus fault for losing it. let say Aer lingus found bag in day 2 and told THAI to load bags whenever they can but THAI keeps forgetting and finally loads bag in DAY 5. Then its Thai fault as well but ultimately aer lingus fault still. Or maybe aer lingus found bag in day 5 and THAI flown bag in day 5/6 , then is all aer-lingus fault.

Below is a more normal breakdown of communication between airline.

Sometimes airlines communication breakdown, for example original flight is : - ORD-EWR-DUB. In EWR passenger misses flight to DUB , so UA rebooked passenger to AA (EWR to dub same day)and tell passenger the bag will be transferred to AA. He gets into DUB and does not receive bag(bag still in EWR) - who is at fault? , UA or AA? Both airlines will say its the other fault. UA says the bag was put into the transfer zone . AA says the bag was not known to them. Perhaps this is applicable

Claiomh

Going from what you have written, it seems very likely that the bag was lost by Aer Lingus in LHR. The bag probably didn't make the onward connection that I missed as all the follow on reports list the Thai flight from LHR-BKK and BKK-SYD as a routing.

I did get in contact with Thai asking about the bag loading, but until I hear back from them I have no idea whether they had the bag or not for days before loading it- the follow on reports claim that the bag is missing for the first few days. All I know for sure is that it finally left LHR on July 6th- a full four days after the planned the original flight. Ultimately is the question when did Aer Lingus hand the bag over to Thai? And what was the reason for the delay?


I understand that the fact that Australia is so far away could also affect the speed at which a bag is delivered but that does seem like a bit much. Do you have any idea how Aer Lingus would have lost it? Since a number of us were making the same connection that when it was missed, would those bags usually be stored together until further notice?

To just go back to your first point- I've had a few unplanned overnights before because of this, and whenever I have checked baggage, I travel with a change of clothes and toiletries etc in my hand luggage- for this reason I wasn't too concerned about not having my bag.

Thanks for taking the time to reply- its good to hear from an expert!

Under His Eye

You need to read up on the Montreal Convention. These are the rules that govern baggage claims.

Claiomh

I have read up on the Montreal Convention, but I wanted to try to figure out which airline would be responsible so as to send a claim to them, hence asking for advice here.

As an aside to that, is there any liability on an airlines part when they deliver your luggage back home late? I only ask as I finally got my bag back today, having been in transit from Australia for the last week, and arriving 7 days after me.

vectorvictor

Under His Eye wrote: »

You need to read up on the Montreal Convention. These are the rules that govern baggage claims.

It is the final carrier with whom the claim would sit as they are responsible for delivery of you and your luggage. In a reroute scenario the carrier you are rerouted onto becomes the final ticketed carrier as your reservation would be adjusted to this flight.

It is not your job to figure out who is at fault. If the final carrier believes it was EI who lost the bag (which to be fair is the most likely scenario given your description) then they are free to take it up with them but your claim remains with the final carrier who were paid to transport you and your luggage to the final destination (prior missed arrangements have no bearing)

Brendan Bendar

vectorvictor wrote: »

It is the final carrier with whom the claim would sit as they are responsible for delivery of you and your luggage. In a reroute scenario the carrier you are rerouted onto becomes the final ticketed carrier as your reservation would be adjusted to this flight.

It is not your job to figure out who is at fault. If the final carrier believes it was EI who lost the bag (which to be fair is the most likely scenario given your description) then they are free to take it up with them but your claim remains with the final carrier who were paid to transport you and your luggage to the final destination (prior missed arrangements have no bearing)

This.

Claiomh

Just to be sure on this- in my case the final carrier is Qatar, and the final destination is Sydney, and not where I returned to (Dublin)?

Is this at all complicated by the fact that both I and my luggage travelled on different airlines and routings?

Under His Eye

Whoever operated the final leg into Dublin.

vectorvictor

Under His Eye wrote: »

Whoever operated the final leg into Dublin.

This is wrong. It's whoever brought you to your destination and failed to present your luggage tp you on arrival there. This is who you should report it to on arrival and you should have been given a property irregularity report and number which allows you to track your lost bag

Under His Eye

That is a bit hard when he has comeback from Sydney.

I would be going after EI and the issuer of the ticket.

vectorvictor

Under His Eye wrote: »

That is a bit hard when he has comeback from Sydney.

I would be going after EI and the issuer of the ticket.

I agree but it's the rule. EI will have nothing to do with the pax directly which again I agree if they issued the ticket his contract is with them but lost baggage and the various conventions are a pain in the ass

Claiomh

vectorvictor wrote: »

This is wrong. It's whoever brought you to your destination and failed to present your luggage tp you on arrival there. This is who you should report it to on arrival and you should have been given a property irregularity report and number which allows you to track your lost bag

This was what I thought, and why I was surprised that my bag travelled to Sydney with Thai, when I flew with Qatar. In that case is it Aer Lingus/Thai that are responsible for the delay?

Likewise, Qatar flew my bag back to Dublin (while I returned with Thai), but held onto it for a week in Doha, all the while claiming it was in Dublin- it there anything I can follow up on as regards this? I was back in Ireland for a week before I got the luggage back and needed some of the things in it.

vectorvictor

Claiomh wrote: »

This was what I thought, and why I was surprised that my bag travelled to Sydney with Thai, when I flew with Qatar. In that case is it Aer Lingus/Thai that are responsible for the delay?

Likewise, Qatar flew my bag back to Dublin (while I returned with Thai), but held onto it for a week in Doha, all the while claiming it was in Dublin- it there anything I can follow up on as regards this? I was back in Ireland for a week before I got the luggage back and needed some of the things in it.

It is Qatar this has been answered for you already by a few posters I.e. The airline operating the last flight on your connecting outbound journey. That is the airline You actually travelled on. You have your bag back so what are you looking for - compensation? If so you would be able to claim for having to repurchase essentials, toiletries , medication and clothing whilst in Sydney this claim would be against Qatar and they would want receipts, boarding card and a copy of the PIR form you would have received in Sydney

Under His Eye

I would certainly not let them off the hook at this stage.

IE 222

Out of interest, are additional steps taking when transferring lost or delayed luggage or is it presumed safe as the luggage has exceeded the flight time before been put back onto aircraft. What changes to accept unaccompanied baggage where normally it's removed if passenger fails to board the flight.

vectorvictor

IE 222 wrote: »

Out of interest, are additional steps taking when transferring lost or delayed luggage or is it presumed safe as the luggage has exceeded the flight time before been put back onto aircraft. What changes to accept unaccompanied baggage where normally it's removed if passenger fails to board the flight.

There's buckets of regulation around this , my one line summary is that passengers cannot intentionally separate themselves from flying on the same flight as their baggage but the airline is free to do so.