Are Gardai legally allowed to drive whilst on the phone.

Vizzy

This may have been asked before so apologies if it has.

Driving home this evening and met a Garda van at a mini roundabout.


Guy in the van was driving merrily along with the phone to his ear.

No emergency that I could see.


Are the Gardaí exempt from the prohibition of driving whilst on the phone ?

whippet

Yes

GM228

Vizzy wrote: »

This may have been asked before so apologies if it has.

Driving home this evening and met a Garda van at a mini roundabout.


Guy in the van was driving merrily along with the phone to his ear.

No emergency that I could see.


Are the Gardaí exempt from the prohibition of driving whilst on the phone ?

The answer is yes they are exempt.

CharlieCroker

Yes. S87, road traffic act 1961

GM228

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Yes. S91, road traffic act 1961

It's S87, Road Traffic Act 2010.

Atlantic Dawn

Yes, also exempt from parking laws.

CharlieCroker

GM228 wrote: »

It's S87, Road Traffic Act 2010.

It didn't sound right as I posted it so had to double check. My ninja edit wasn't quite quick enough for you.

Vizzy

Fair enough !!

Just from a safety point of view I can't see the logic in a Garda being exempt while in a Garda car, but the same Garda is somehow less safe if I meet him in the same place 10 mins later in his own car

Eric Cartman

Vizzy wrote: »

Fair enough !!

Just from a safety point of view I can't see the logic in a Garda being exempt while in a Garda car, but the same Garda is somehow less safe if I meet him in the same place 10 mins later in his own car

well aside from much higher driver training, a car thats infinitely more visible, a partner in the car who's also observing for hazards etc... is suppose there isn't much of a difference.

Vizzy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well aside from much higher driver training, a car thats infinitely more visible, a partner in the car who's also observing for hazards etc... is suppose there isn't much of a difference.

Are you saying that all Gardaí have advanced driving skills ?

Didn't know that.

In my case today it wasn't a Garda car it was a white van - Opel combo or similar - with GARDA on the bonnet and possibly on the side.
Garda was on his own in the van.

Don't know how the visibility of the car makes the driver a safer driver though.

2012paddy2012

Its looks very bad to use a phone while at the same responsible for enforcing regs re phones.

Should a crash occur it will have a detrimental affect in any compensation claim that may occur and may contribute to a charge re driving in a safe manner , which a court could only interpret against a police driver.

Victor

Vizzy wrote: »

Are the Gardaí exempt from the prohibition of driving whilst on the phone ?

Only if it is safe to do so.

GM228 wrote: »

It's S87, Road Traffic Act 2010.

S87, Road Traffic Act 2010 (as emended), even. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/act/16/section/48/enacted/en/html

GM228

Victor wrote: »

S87, Road Traffic Act 2010 (as emended), even. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/act/16/section/48/enacted/en/html

Most up to date amendment

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/3/section/23/enacted/en/html#sec23

As you pointed out the last line is the crucial part, "where such use does not endanger the safety of road users".

sexmag

GM228 wrote: »

As you pointed out the last line is the crucial part, "where such use does not endanger the safety of road users".

I believe this is what most people would challenge, they don't mind guards being exempt from certain traffic laws(like speeding in the course of duty to catch a runaway suspect or parking on double yellows) but driving while talking on the phone should be considerd dangerous driving that could endanger the safety of other road users especially when Bluetooth head sets and hands-free kits exist.

GM228

sexmag wrote: »

I believe this is what most people would challenge, they don't mind guards being exempt from certain traffic laws(like speeding in the course of duty to catch a runaway suspect or parking on double yellows) but driving while talking on the phone should be considerd dangerous driving that could endanger the safety of other road users especially when Bluetooth head sets and hands-free kits exist.

The problem is simply being on the phone in and of itself is not enough to establish a charge of dangerous driving, if it were we would not have needed the legislation in the first place would we, there would be other factors at play and a legal test to establish if dangerous driving applied.

Get Real

sexmag wrote: »

I believe this is what most people would challenge, they don't mind guards being exempt from certain traffic laws(like speeding in the course of duty to catch a runaway suspect or parking on double yellows) but driving while talking on the phone should be considerd dangerous driving that could endanger the safety of other road users especially when Bluetooth head sets and hands-free kits exist.

A fair point, but speeding in my view would be more dangerous,regardless of the need for it. I think both are acceptable. Ie, if its acceptable for them to speed in certain scenarios its acceptable to use the phone.

Oftentimes it is used instead of a radio to get information on a call, get clearer and more precise details rather than waiting for other "radio trafic" to finish before you have your turn to speak.

Fully accept your point with regards bluetooth. The most obvious solution. Powers that be in the gov't would see it as a money issue unfortunately to kit them all out. And for modern cars that have it built in/able to sync up with the car radio, Garda cars have these radios removed before being put on the road.

So its a money thing, once again, that prevents sensible, proactive decisions being made. Email may be sent to relevant department with a response along the lines of "computer says no"

dxhound2005

sexmag wrote: »

I believe this is what most people would challenge, they don't mind guards being exempt from certain traffic laws(like speeding in the course of duty to catch a runaway suspect or parking on double yellows) but driving while talking on the phone should be considerd dangerous driving that could endanger the safety of other road users especially when Bluetooth head sets and hands-free kits exist.

Maybe most people do mind the Guards being exempt from certain laws. How would anyone know this?

Del2005

Get Real wrote: »

A fair point, but speeding in my view would be more dangerous,regardless of the need for it. I think both are acceptable. Ie, if its acceptable for them to speed in certain scenarios its acceptable to use the phone.

Oftentimes it is used instead of a radio to get information on a call, get clearer and more precise details rather than waiting for other "radio trafic" to finish before you have your turn to speak.

Fully accept your point with regards bluetooth. The most obvious solution. Powers that be in the gov't would see it as a money issue unfortunately to kit them all out. And for modern cars that have it built in/able to sync up with the car radio, Garda cars have these radios removed before being put on the road.

So its a money thing, once again, that prevents sensible, proactive decisions being made. Email may be sent to relevant department with a response along the lines of "computer says no"

It costs €20 or less for a bluetooth headset, if they need to make calls then they can buy a headset as they aren't exempt from the law of physics. Take a bit of personal responsibility and stop blaming the higher ups.

sexmag

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Maybe most people do mind the Guards being exempt from certain laws. How would anyone know this?

Well in my example woulld you prefer a person who may have murdered your family get away by speeding while the guards have to obey the speed limit?

Claw Hammer

sexmag wrote: »

Well in my example woulld you prefer a person who may have murdered your family get away by speeding while the guards have to obey the speed limit?

What are the chances the guards are going to come on the scene just as a murderer is driving away?

Johnboy1951

sexmag wrote: »

Well in my example woulld you prefer a person who may have murdered your family get away by speeding while the guards have to obey the speed limit?

What makes you think it has to be one of only those two options? ....... obey speed limit or murderer escapes ...... is there no other option you can think of?

I believe that guards who have received the required advanced driver training should be exempt from speed limits in specific circumstances (e.g. pursuit), but most definitely not other guards who have not passed such training.

I do not believe that any guard should be allowed to hold a phone to their ear while driving, regardless circumstances.
There are other options available for guards as well as the rest of the populous.
If I am required to use BT or other scheme to avoid holding my phone whilst driving, then arguably it is even more important for a driver of a Garda car to do similar.

Lmklad

Unfortunately Bluetooth is not an option for most patrol cars as the cars are driven by multiple Gardai. You drive your car and use your own BT, your car stores your information. GDRP would not allow multiple users info to be stored.

Hands free sets are another idea but are usually made for specific phone types. Multiple drivers = multiple phone types.

Also, if they won’t give the guards GPS they sure as heck won’t fork out of BT when the guard is exempt in the first place.

Victor

Lmklad wrote: »

Multiple drivers = multiple phone types.

The phones used by most gardaí are based on the TETRA system and are issued to the gardaí, not their own phones.

Lmklad

Victor wrote: »

Lmklad wrote: »

Multiple drivers = multiple phone types.

The phones used by most gardaí are based on the TETRA system and are issued to the gardaí, not their own phones.

Incorrect. Gardai have Tetra radios which may be used as a phone but only connect to other Tetra radios. Most Gardai use there own phones.

sexmag

"Lmklad wrote: »

You drive your car and use your own BT, your car stores your information. GDRP would not allow multiple users info to be stored

I'm sorry but this is bs, car stereos with bt don't store user info,just the info of the handset I.e. make/model etc so the gdpr won't have any effect on that

Lmklad

sexmag wrote: »

"Lmklad wrote: »

You drive your car and use your own BT, your car stores your information. GDRP would not allow multiple users info to be stored

I'm sorry but this is bs, car stereos with bt don't store user info,just the info of the handset I.e. make/model etc so the gdpr won't have any effect on that

Your car doesn’t store you’re entire phone contact list? Every car I’ve driven with built in hands free does.

Johnboy1951

Lmklad wrote: »

Incorrect. Gardai have Tetra radios which may be used as a phone but only connect to other Tetra radios. Most Gardai use there own phones.

Even worse then to allow them to drive while holding their own phone in their hand.
If they want to use their own phone then they should be required to ensure they can do so without holding the device.

Lmklad

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Lmklad wrote: »

Incorrect. Gardai have Tetra radios which may be used as a phone but only connect to other Tetra radios. Most Gardai use there own phones.

Even worse then to allow them to drive while holding their own phone in their hand.
If they want to use their own phone then they should be required to ensure they can do so without holding the device.

Contact your local TD and get them to amend the law so.

sexmag

Lmklad wrote: »

Your car doesn’t store you’re entire phone contact list? Every car I’ve driven with built in hands free does.

Not stored in the sense that if I got on the car without the phone the list would be there???

Johnboy1951

Lmklad wrote: »

Contact your local TD and get them to amend the law so.

I was not aware that my "local TD" had that power!

AnMuinteoirOg

sexmag wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is bs, car stereos with bt don't store user info,just the info of the handset I.e. make/model etc so the gdpr won't have any effect on that

The Stereos are taken out of patrol cars anyway

AndrewJRenko

It's legal, but it's awful. I saw two Gardai in a minibus-style van last week, with both driver and passenger with their phones held up in front of them while driving in heavy traffic. I suggested that it wasn't a great idea, given that it gives bad example. The passenger explained that 'he was looking for an address', which apparently makes it OK. I suppose the idea that the passenger could look for the address while the driver was driving was too much to expect.

tedpan

Vizzy wrote:

Are you saying that all Gardaí have advanced driving skills ?

Most of them barely know how to use a roundabout, especially in the blachardstown area, from personal experience.

Lmklad

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Lmklad wrote: »

Contact your local TD and get them to amend the law so.

I was not aware that my "local TD" had that power!

Oh. That’s ok. TD are politicians who go the the Dail or parliament. The Parliament is where laws are written. Members of the parliament, known as TD’s (who are politicians) can table new laws or table motions to amend existing ones.

Johnboy1951

Lmklad wrote: »

Oh. That’s ok. TD are politicians who go the the Dail or parliament. The Parliament is where laws are written. Members of the parliament, known as TD’s (who are politicians) can table new laws or table motions to amend existing ones.

Ah so he really does not have the power you appeared to say he has

Lmklad wrote: »

Contact your local TD and get them to amend the law so.

If you want to disagree with my opinion do so on the grounds of what I posted about guards holding phones while driving.

Your other suggestions are not at all helpful to the discussion.

Lmklad

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Lmklad wrote: »

Oh. That’s ok. TD are politicians who go the the Dail or parliament. The Parliament is where laws are written. Members of the parliament, known as TD’s (who are politicians) can table new laws or table motions to amend existing ones.

Ah so he really does not have the power you appeared to say he has

Lmklad wrote: »

Contact your local TD and get them to amend the law so.

If you want to disagree with my opinion do so on the grounds of what I posted about guards holding phones while driving.

Your other suggestions are not at all helpful to the discussion.

To be honest I do get a little peeved when people comment on social media “in their opinion.” While not ideal, Gardai are exempt and that’s all there is to it. That exemption does not cover them in the event of a collision which is their fault. The fact that Gardai have to use their own phones for work is a totally other thread.

Johnboy1951

Lmklad wrote: »

To be honest I do get a little peeved when people comment on social media “in their opinion.” While not ideal, Gardai are exempt and that’s all there is to it. That exemption does not cover them in the event of a collision which is their fault. The fact that Gardai have to use their own phones for work is a totally other thread.

Yes they are exempt ..... but that should not be an end to it.

I would ask about the emboldened statement above ...... is it part of their employment contract that they HAVE to use their own phones in the course of their duties?
What is the situation is a garda does not own a mobile phone?
What happens if a garda does not bring their own phone to work?

Are they disciplined?
Are they given desk duty?
What is the result if they fail to comply with the requirement, you say is there, that they use their personal phones during execution of their duties?

Lastly, do you have a reference showing that requirement?

AndrewJRenko

Lmklad wrote: »

To be honest I do get a little peeved when people comment on social media “in their opinion.” While not ideal, Gardai are exempt and that’s all there is to it.

As much as you might like it to be 'all there is to it', there is a lot more to it.

If a Garda is doing something thick like texting, reading, chatting on a phone while driving, there is definitely plenty more to it. You can choose to say it to the Garda. You can choose to make a formal complaint to the Sgt or Inspector at the station. You could even make a complaint to GSOC.

One thing is for sure, if you do nothing, it's going to keep on happening.

RobbieMD

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

As much as you might like it to be 'all there is to it', there is a lot more to it.

If a Garda is doing something thick like texting, reading, chatting on a phone while driving, there is definitely plenty more to it. You can choose to say it to the Garda. You can choose to make a formal complaint to the Sgt or Inspector at the station. You could even make a complaint to GSOC.

One thing is for sure, if you do nothing, it's going to keep on happening.

And when you make your complaint to GSOC, the member will quote the relevant section and nothing will happen. Same if you go to a station with a sergeant or inspector there, although good luck getting to talk to an inspector. Thats pretty much a fact as much as you don't like it.

AndrewJRenko

RobbieMD wrote: »

And when you make your complaint to GSOC, the member will quote the relevant section and nothing will happen. Same if you go to a station with a sergeant or inspector there, although good luck getting to talk to an inspector. Thats pretty much a fact as much as you don't like it.

Something can be legal and still be very bad practice. An action does not need to be illegal to justify a complaint.