Electric car conversion

squishey

Hi,

Looking at becoming a 2nd BEV family in the near future but not overly optimistic about availability of the different models that we are looking at (Kona / Niro). There is nothing wrong with the chassis/body of our current VW Tiguan 2008 and after seeing a load of videos (mostly from EV West) on youtube I started to wonder if anyone in Ireland does petrol/diesel to electric conversions.

Had a look around and found some old links/sites that don't go anywhere or some hobby conversions but couldn't find anyone offering a service. Does anyone know of anywhere that does ICE to Electric conversions in Ireland?

Cheers

I wouldn't waste your time and money, for starters they won't be able to install a large enough battery and it won't be cheap and you got to be guaranteed a good warranty.

If I were you I'd wait for a cheap Leaf to come along.

Buy a 1st gen leaf and if you need to you can replace the battery to current 24 Kwh which is a better more robust battery, cost of that is about 5,500 installed, could even be cheaper today , and that's if you need one at all, the range of a 1st gen might be suitable even with 2 or 3 lost battery capacity bars.

You got all the benefits of a proper EV then too, longer range, fast charging and remote activation of heat and ac which can also be programmed in the car itself.

Conversion, I seriously would not be bothered with the potential headache and cost.

Water John

I think there is a doctor in Cork who did one, DIY I think. Would be interesting to do with something like a 15 year old car.

Would you be prepared to spend maybe 20k+ to convert the Tiguan? I'm not saying it's not possible but seen how difficult it is for the likes of Nissan to get for example battery cooling right would you expect a small Irish company being able to do a better job?

unkel

squishey wrote: »

Hi,

Looking at becoming a 2nd BEV family in the near future

What's your 1st EV? And what are your driving patterns for the two cars?

I just wouldn't do it unless you can do all the work yourself, paying someone won't be cheap and I've read too many horror stories, best to buy a proper built EV.

boombang

The cars EV west do are mostly characterful cars or classics. While appealing, I think it makes no sense to do what you're thinking about.

Best to flog the Tiguan and put that towards another EV, leaf 60 Kwh, Kona, Leaf will be larger more practical and faster charging than the Kona ( depending on the charger it's connected to )

Ionity are rolling out chargers and will hopefully have the first charging station ( 4x150 Kw) chargers installed by the end of the year and by the end of 2019 they plan 4 sited of 4 x 150 Kw chargers on the main motorway routes so the leaf 60 Kwh will have a big advantage.

+ Leaf 60 will have 11 Kw AC and possibly 22 Kw, a game changer car to be honest.

Actually, I'm just after remembering that Nissan are sticking with ChaDeMo, and I can't see 100+ Kw ChaDeMo chargers here any time soon, unless the ESb upgrade and install 100+ Kw triple headed units.

Nissan are really stubborn on this.

So Leaf 60 could be seriously handicapped with out 45 Kw chargers. Just imagine the ESb decide to roll out new 45 Kw chargers Christ ! The Topaz ChaDeMo they're upgrading are only 45 Kw so I don;t have much faith in them to be honest.

Gotta LEAFe room for improvement for the following generation.

pawdee

There's a fella in the UK who converts Morris Minors to electric.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/prelude-e-minor-prototype-electric-morris-might-change-world/

bp_me

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, I'm just after remembering that Nissan are sticking with ChaDeMo, and I can't see 100+ Kw ChaDeMo chargers here any time soon, unless the ESb upgrade and install 100+ Kw triple headed units.

100kW wasnt part of the framework agreement they put out a call for recently so don't hold your breath.

FriendsEV

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually, I'm just after remembering that Nissan are sticking with ChaDeMo, and I can't see 100+ Kw ChaDeMo chargers here any time soon, unless the ESb upgrade and install 100+ Kw triple headed units.

Nissan are really stubborn on this.

So Leaf 60 could be seriously handicapped with out 45 Kw chargers. Just imagine the ESb decide to roll out new 45 Kw chargers Christ ! The Topaz ChaDeMo they're upgrading are only 45 Kw so I don;t have much faith in them to be honest.

Disappointing alright

Tesla model 3 will support Ionity and the Tesla network

Best of both

There are 150 Kw multi chargers so I see no reason why the ESB don't install these, I'm sure they'll be billing for usage soon enough so they might as well install a proper infrastructure, they can't use the justification that there are no cars capable of more than 45 Kw now and if they do they should not be allowed any control over the network, perhaps they'll hoping another company buys it off of them ?

Nissan should just install CCS for Europe and the U.S and be done with it, let them keep ChaDeMo in Japan if they want.

bp_me

bp_me wrote: »

100kW wasnt part of the framework agreement they put out a call for recently so don't hold your breath.

What do you mean ?

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't see 100+ Kw ChaDeMo chargers here any time soon, unless the ESb upgrade and install 100+ Kw triple headed units.

Not a hope of that. And I can't see any commercial entity doing it either as it obsolete technology (outside of Japan)

Deleted User wrote: »

Nissan should just install CCS for Europe and the U.S and be done with it, let them keep ChaDeMo in Japan if they want.

Amen. It was a disgrace they kept the L40 on CHAdeMO. Should have moved on to CCS. I wonder how many L40 buyers do not realise that they can't juice on the Ionity chargers? Or maybe many don't even know that these Ionity CCS chargers are coming to Ireland

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Not a hope of that. And I can't see any commercial entity doing it either as it obsolete technology (outside of Japan)



Amen. It was a disgrace they kept the L40 on CHAdeMO. Should have moved on to CCS. I wonder how many L40 buyers do not realise that they can't juice on the Ionity chargers? Or maybe many don't even know that these Ionity CCS chargers are coming to Ireland

There are way more Nissan CHAdeMO chargers at the Nissan dealers and than there will ever be ionity ones in Ireland. Nissan has also joined some other competing network (can't be bothered to find out what they are called). And for the ionity users it's probably good that L24-40 won't be charging at slow speeds there.

I still think that most of the commercial networks will go for at least both of the main DC standard connectors as adding both will allow them serve all of the market and not just CCS.

unkel

samih wrote: »

There are way more Nissan CHAdeMO chargers at the Nissan dealers and than there will ever be ionity ones in Ireland.

And what's your point? Do you think Nissan Ireland or the dealers themselves are going to upgrade these to 100kW CHAdeMO chargers? I understand you would like that, but I'd say it is very unlikely

Whereas the 150kW Ionity CCS chargers coming here is almost a certainty. And be careful about using the word ever That might come back to bite ya...

What I think is sad is the new/renovated Applegreen on the N7 hasn't a single DC charger.

Garages are not even thinking charge points , most of them anyway. It's Pumps or nothing and to be honest they probably stand to make more money on chargers.

Heres Johnny

I looked at a few silly things over the years like converting a BMW E60 SE to msport and retrofitting leather interior into an E39 sport and in all cases it was both much

A - Easier
B - Cheaper

to just sell the car I had and buy the car I wanted.

They were simple non mechanical ideas I had, what you're proposing is much much more difficult and could be a disaster both for the Tiguan and for your pocket.

Exactly, most conversions I think are DIY.

The greatest issue here is component quality, i.e, battery cells, BMS, etc if any fail and it can happen , then it's going to cost big time unless you have a very good warranty that covers everything.

It's just not going to be the same as a proper EV conversion because after all, where do you think they can install the battery ? yes, in the boot and that hasn't nearly enough room for decent range, even if you can squeeze some up front.

Then there's all the paperwork, informing insurance etc, it all has to be legit or it won't pass NCT etc.

It's just not worth the hassle, in my opinion your heart will be broken with it all .

The point is that dealer network ones will almost certainly need be upgraded anyway as Nissan has committed dealers having chargers and the original DBT units are getting very old while not being the most reliable model ever in the first place.

When upgrading the old units it would be a shame if 50 kW ones were used again.

Apart from politics, which is always interesting, there is no good reason for any commercial network to not to continue supporting CHAdeMO for as long as there are cars on the road that are their potential customers. If the L60 really retains the standard and will be capable of higher rate of charging as well, as a customer I would definitely prefer to charge at the max rate possible. If say Circle K provided me a 150 kW CHAdeMO I would definitely go there instead of Applegreen that gives me maximum of 50 kW. I definitely wouldn't go all to the chain that didn't have the CHAdeMO at all. The Circle K would be able to sell me more units within the 30-45 minutes that I were prepared to stay there so they'd like that too and would be able to sell me coffee and cake boosting their profits.

Sleeper12

Your insurance will see it as a modification. Many companies may not quote you.

Would it even pass the nct converted?

unkel

samih wrote: »

The point is that dealer network ones will almost certainly need be upgraded anyway as Nissan has committed dealers having chargers and the original DBT units are getting very old while not being the most reliable model ever in the first place.

Almost certainly? :eek:

I'll give you even odds on 90% of all todays Nissan dealer CHAdeMO chargers will running 100kW within 10 years. In other words, for every €1 you give me, I will give you €2 if you win

How much do you want to wager?
.
.
.
.
I thought so

I didn't claim that almost certainly the Nissan ones will be upgraded to 100 kW+. I said that the DBT 40ish kW max. chargers have to be almost certainly be upgraded (where I meant replaced by better units) as they are getting older and fail and at that stage it would make sense to replace them with current tech.

Therefore I will not accept your bet there. If you had wanted to bet who can hike to the top of Djouce quickest I might have bitten ;-)

There are plenty of 100 + Kw chargers with CCS and ChaDeMo being installed on the Continent so no reason to suggest any future ESB 100+ Chargers will be CCS only. It is a joke seeing them upgrade the ChaDeMo only to 45 kw.

The ESb need to generate as much income as possible so why would they limit to CCS only when there are so many ChaDEMo cars out there ?

liamog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are plenty of 100 + Kw chargers with CCS and ChaDeMo being installed on the Continent so no reason to suggest any future ESB 100+ Chargers will be CCS only. It is a joke seeing them upgrade the ChaDeMo only to 45 kw.

The ESb need to generate as much income as possible so why would they limit to CCS only when there are so many ChaDEMo cars out there ?

Have we confirmed the upgraded ones are actually only 45kW, they've moved to listing the 50kW chargers as 45kW even though they're capable of supplying 50kW to the car.

It would be a bizzare step for them, though they may be grid limited at some of the sites.

bp_me

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you mean ?

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/202438

Hopefully you can see this.

This is what's called a "framework agreement". Essentially it's a preferred supplier list that will cut down a bit on the effort and time involved in doing public tenders for the duration of the framework (typically 2-3 years). It has the side effect of not being able to see what gets tendered for unless you are in the framework.

This isn't to say that ESB couldn't tender separately for 100kW or greater capable chargers but I'ld assume that framework is a statement of their intent.

Edit to add: The one really interesting thing there is an apparent intention to install 25kW DC chargers.

liamog

liamog wrote: »

Have we confirmed the upgraded ones are actually only 45kW, they've moved to listing the 50kW chargers as 45kW even though they're capable of supplying 50kW to the car.

It would be a bizzare step for them, though they may be grid limited at some of the sites.

You're correct, I've a habit of saying 45 Kw !

I could perhaps understand if the ESB wanted to up grade existing ChaDeMo to 50 Kw CCS, AC and CCS but it not good enough really.

Installing new chargers of 50 kw would not give me much confidence in the ESB at all.

They also need sites of 4+ chargers.

bp_me

bp_me wrote: »

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/202438

Hopefully you can see this.

This is what's called a "framework agreement". Essentially it's a preferred supplier list that will cut down a bit on the effort and time involved in doing public tenders for the duration of the framework (typically 2-3 years). It has the side effect of not being able to see what gets tendered for unless you are in the framework.

This isn't to say that ESB couldn't tender separately for 100kW or greater capable chargers but I'ld assume that framework is a statement of their intent.

Edit to add: The one really interesting thing there is an apparent intention to install 25kW DC chargers.

It would be a very sad day for EV owners if new installations were only 50 Kw.

I can understand 25 kw DC, they'll be the new slow chargers and most EV's can take DC and 25 Kwh in an hour is nothing to sniff at.

Perhaps the saddest of all is the lack of new installation since 2015. We are massively behind.

TonyEVW

interesting question. The Tiguan looks like a crossover version of the golf. I would expect that it is probably not much heavier if you compare similar Golf and Tiguan models, The E-golf is a diesel/petrol Golf with the running gear fuel tank and emissions systems removed. It is even assembled on the same production line.

On the E-Golf the motor charger and power control module are all under the bonnet. The battery is an H shaped platform that fits in the tunnel, under the driver and passenger seats and where the fuel tank used to be. If the same space was available in the Tiguan then, in theory, the parts from a wright-off E-Golf could be salvaged and retrofitted to your Tiguan.

The only problem with the Tiguan in comparison to the golf is the aerodynamics are a lot lower which would have a significant impact on range at speeds over 35kmh. From a cost point of view, it would be ridiculous as you would end up with a vehicle that would have no value and be difficult to insure.

TonyEVW

On the charger issue, I don't think it will be a requirement that all chargers are high powered. As an EV driver since March, my experience is that I top the car up when parking to do other tasks. The car normally is charged overnight up to 80% (range 236km), then when I'm out and about I plug it in if in close proximity to a charge point and if the charge point is available while doing other tasks.

With traditional fuel stations, they were located away from commercial centers so drivers had to take time out of their normal tasks to drive to the fuel station to fuel the car. With the advent of chargers everywhere fast, slow and in-between, the EV driver can take sips of energy as they go about the rest of there activities.

The only time I had to plan my charge was on a trip to Donegal (charged Navan on the way up). On the return, I was down to 106km at Longford where I stopped at the Topaz fast charge and had a sandwich and a coffee the battery was back up to 240km in 30minutes. I would have stopped for the same period if traveling in the diesel car so the range is not really an issue.

liamog

I basically either want a slow charger, or a really fast one, I don't see much call for middle speeds (50kW is fast becoming a middle speed for newer vehicles)

For a hypothetical BEV with a 60kWh and 16kWh/100km you have 375km of range. Most of the time you'll be happy charging slowly at home, or at a destination e.g. hotel or park and ride.
You'll very rarely want to graze charge as it's not particularly needed, and is more hassle than it's worth.

For the few times your on a long journey, if the car can charge at 150kW you can add 300km of range in 20mins, or 150km in 10. That's basically removing any impediment to adoption.
The battery tech is almost there.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowagze-Meg

This guy is always converting something. Might be worth talking to, he's in Ireland.

unkel

samih wrote: »

I said that the DBT 40ish kW max. chargers have to be almost certainly be upgraded (where I meant replaced by better units) as they are getting older and fail

I very much doubt it. The Nissan dealers weren't pleased in the first place that they had to fork out for installing CHAdeMO chargers and cough up for the free electricity. Unless they are forced to by very strict and toughly enforced contracts with Nissan Ireland, they will never replace these chargers.

samih wrote: »

If you had wanted to bet who can hike to the top of Djouce quickest I might have bitten ;-)

That's a walk. Not a hike. You can push a baby buggy to the top of Djouce

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Have we confirmed the upgraded ones are actually only 45kW, they've moved to listing the 50kW chargers as 45kW even though they're capable of supplying 50kW to the car.

It would be a bizzare step for them, though they may be grid limited at some of the sites.

The car can only receive 45-47kW NET from these chargers. That's for the efacec triple headers
The older (mainly chademo only) units give 45kW gross so 42-43kW net. To the point that many older leafs have reached single digit power draw before 80% SOC.


"Upgraded" should be 100kW minimum.

And nothing will happen until the network ownership vacuum is sorted. Read what you will into the new standard chargers being completely unbranded......

liamog

It's quite interesting.
Last year I was gathering data whilst charging, because I'm a giant nerd

Whilst charging on the Efacec and ABB chargers the Ioniq receives up to 48/49kW at around 75% SOC.

The DBTs really don't work well with an Ioniq, they maxed out at around 32kW.
It's enough of a difference that I will plan my trips around charger model.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/farwyh8epnu5s03/rapidchargedata.xlsx?dl=0

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

It's quite interesting.
Last year I was gathering data whilst charging, because I'm a giant nerd

Whilst charging on the Efacec and ABB chargers the Ioniq receives up to 48/49kW at around 75% SOC.

The DBTs really don't work well with an Ioniq, they maxed out at around 32kW.
It's enough of a difference that I will plan my trips around charger model.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/farwyh8epnu5s03/rapidchargedata.xlsx?dl=0

Ioniq's peak speed is at 76-77% SOC. It would pull the full 70kW if it were available at the charger.
The max I've seen displayed on the charger is 52.6kW (leaving out the outliers that display wrong info, like midway).

How do you get the net (ie power taken by the battery, as opposed to power sent from the charger)

EDITED to add: That's a very interesting data sheet. I've downloaded it and the figures are supremely interesting to say the least. I assume this was done via auto log of an app like leafspy?

Interesting point to note, your average charging speed across all lines was 34.65kW

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

EDITED to add: That's a very interesting data sheet. I've downloaded it and the figures are supremely interesting to say the least. I assume this was done via auto log of an app like leafspy?

Interesting point to note, your average charging speed across all lines was 34.65kW

I use Torque Pro with an OBDII device.
Here's some details https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107207860

jackbauer

Long time since I've posted on Boards.... Anyway, just want to set some of the negativity on conversions straight. I've done 5 in the past 9 years. Plenty more on the way. My E39 converted in 2013 is coming up on 90k ev miles and still giving over 100 miles of range. E31 conversion with a Tesla drive unit was at a track day at mondello in June. Like with any modified car you get your car, your way.  Won't suit everyone of course.
Check out www.youtube.com/evbmw