Unsure about accepting civil service job

belleamie

Hi there, I've been offered a Clerical Officer role in the Civil Service,, and have been researching salary, benefits on here and on the website.
I am in a private sector marketing role for the last 8 years, the money is ok, but there is no progression and lately i am feeling very uncertain about the stability of the job, I'm 35 with a 13 month old and have been worrying in case the company were to start laying off staff due to not enough work. I applied for the CO in 2016 and got the call on monday to say the role is there, ,, really don't know what to do.
The pay will be 4k less than i am on now,, and I am scared about the prospect of a year long probationary period, in the unlikely event that I wouldnt pass it,
Just wondering has anyone any advice/experience with CO officer role starting in later life?

thanks

uck51js9zml2yt

You will get FIS payments which will help.
Once you keep your head down and so your work, you'll be fine on probation.
The money will go up.

n!ghtmancometh

You'd want to be a complete moron and take the absolute piss with sick leave in order to not have your years co probation signed off. 4k is a big enough hit, but would flexitime in any way make up for it, or do you already have it in your current job?

Also, we have had people in their late 50's start off as new clerical officers in our department, so don't worry about being old or starting later in life etc.

belleamie

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

You'd want to be a complete moron and take the absolute piss with sick leave in order to not have your years co probation signed off. 4k is a big enough hit, but would flexitime in any way make up for it, or do you already have it in your current job?

Also, we have had people in their late 50's start off as new clerical officers in our department, so don't worry about being old or starting later in life etc.

I have a parental leave day at the moment, but no flexi time even though the company is quite flexible when it comes to appointments and stuff like if I have to pick up child from the creche if he is sick etc ... think I'm just worried in case I'd have to do anything like that and would it be frowned upon as I'd be on probation. I know it's silly to overthink it but I'm one of those ppl who never rings in sick and worries over stupid things like that

Crunchymomma

belleamie wrote: »

Hi there, I've been offered a Clerical Officer role in the Civil Service,, and have been researching salary, benefits on here and on the website.
I am in a private sector marketing role for the last 8 years, the money is ok, but there is no progression and lately i am feeling very uncertain about the stability of the job, I'm 35 with a 13 month old and have been worrying in case the company were to start laying off staff due to not enough work. I applied for the CO in 2016 and got the call on monday to say the role is there, ,, really don't know what to do.
The pay will be 4k less than i am on now,, and I am scared about the prospect of a year long probationary period, in the unlikely event that I wouldnt pass it,
Just wondering has anyone any advice/experience with CO officer role starting in later life?

thanks

Firstly I wouldn't worry about the probation period as you would really want to be taking the piss I think to not pass it.

On the money, 4k is a sizeable amount but not insane. I took a hit more than double that when I went in as CO when my bonuses were accounted for. It was a little tough but in my head worth it for the flexibility. I have since got EO off an open comp and made back a chunk of the money I had lost getting CO. There is promotion opportunities there for people who want to move up. EO will be open again by the end of this year I think and that starts on 29k

Squatter

belleamie wrote: »

I have a parental leave day at the moment, but no flexi time even though the company is quite flexible when it comes to appointments and stuff like if I have to pick up child from the creche if he is sick etc ... think I'm just worried in case I'd have to do anything like that and would it be frowned upon as I'd be on probation. I know it's silly to overthink it but I'm one of those ppl who never rings in sick and worries over stupid things like that

I reckon that it would be very hard to find a more family friendly employer in Ireland than the civil/public service. And, if you have the misfortune to have a genuinely disastrous probational period, then you're far more likely to have your probation period extended, rather than you being dismissed.

Furthermore, you'll have the opportunity to join a pretty good union that will ensure that you are treated fairly.

belleamie

Thanks for all the advice and comments... starting to think in the long run it would be worth it and the stability of it would be a big bonus once the probation period was over. Will decide in the next couple of days. I'm sh*ting it at the thoughts of moving and starting somewhere new

uck51js9zml2yt

belleamie wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice and comments... starting to think in the long run it would be worth it and the stability of it would be a big bonus once the probation period was over. Will decide in the next couple of days. I'm sh*ting it at the thoughts of moving and starting somewhere new

I started as CO and am waiting for appointment as EO on the outside competition.
A colleague who got in just ahead of me is waiting to jump to HEO having passed the interview internally.

GarIT

I think you'd be mad not to take it.

From what I've hear the probation period is so easy. And you'll more than make up for the loss in earnings. And have a much better quality of life.

belleamie

Crunchymomma wrote: »

Firstly I wouldn't worry about the probation period as you would really want to be taking the piss I think to not pass it.

On the money, 4k is a sizeable amount but not insane. I took a hit more than double that when I went in as CO when my bonuses were accounted for. It was a little tough but in my head worth it for the flexibility. I have since got EO off an open comp and made back a chunk of the money I had lost getting CO. There is promotion opportunities there for people who want to move up. EO will be open again by the end of this year I think and that starts on 29k

Thanks for that... do U know if you refuse an offer does that mean you're off the panel then? I would like to apply for EO but don't know if I can do that if I'm in as a CO and still on probation can you apply internally or do you have to wait til that's over? Thanks

uck51js9zml2yt

You can apply for EO on the external panel
If you turn down Co, that's it closed for this panel

Crunchymomma

belleamie wrote: »

Thanks for that... do U know if you refuse an offer does that mean you're off the panel then? I would like to apply for EO but don't know if I can do that if I'm in as a CO and still on probation can you apply internally or do you have to wait til that's over? Thanks

EO is both open and interdepartmental so you will be able to apply for the open even if still on probation (I was only a CO for 7 months when I got assigned as an EO)

If you refuse the CO you are off the panel but you could still apply for the EO because as I said its an open comp :-)

yenom

All you have to do is basic work to pass probation. The cut in wages is well worth it. Flexi time is great. You can start one morning at eight or another at ten. You can give yourself a bank holiday every month or take three half days.

This advertisement should help. It's all true too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-E99xe-uGq0

belleamie

Thanks,., after reading everything I think I'm going to take it, have to let them know today.

belleamie

yenom wrote: »

All you have to do is basic work to pass probation. The cut in wages is well worth it. Flexi time is great. You can start one morning at eight or another at ten. You can give yourself a bank holiday every month or take three half days.

This advertisement should help. It's all true too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-E99xe-uGq0

Flexi time would be great in fairness, it would be nice to not have to take annual leave for every little thing. Can you start working up flexi time pretty much straight away? That ad is funny :):)

Valentina

belleamie wrote: »

Flexi time would be great in fairness, it would be nice to not have to take annual leave for every little thing. Can you start working up flexi time pretty much straight away? That ad is funny :):)

You work up flexitime in a four week period and can take it in the next four week period. Everyone is entitled to flexi whether they're permanent, temporary or on probation. Good luck with the new role!

belleamie

Valentina wrote: »

You work up flexitime in a four week period and can take it in the next four week period. Everyone is entitled to flexi whether they're permanent, temporary or on probation. Good luck with the new role!

Great thanks so much for that info

hollymartins

Flexi is not an entitlement. I have some colleagues in different divisions in my department and some do not get flexi due to the nature of their work. The vast majority of civil servants do get flexi but it's not absolutely guaranteed, it may depend on where you are placed.

uck51js9zml2yt

belleamie wrote: »

Flexi time would be great in fairness, it would be nice to not have to take annual leave for every little thing. Can you start working up flexi time pretty much straight away? That ad is funny :):)

It goes without saying that if you've nothing to do, then the extra time to get Flexi can't be justified.
Not a problem for me. I have to manage my hours so as not to loose them.
11.30 max on the clock per period. The extra is lost.

belleamie

hollymartins wrote: »

Flexi is not an entitlement. I have some colleagues in different divisions in my department and some do not get flexi due to the nature of their work. The vast majority of civil servants do get flexi but it's not absolutely guaranteed, it may depend on where you are placed.

Thanks for the heads up

maybe check what takehome is vs current at the starting point of the CO scale, rather than gross.

just in case the additional deductions in CS take you by surprise

acronym Chilli

You won't have a pension like the CS where you are.
That is almost more valuable when you're older. For each year service 1/80 of salary as pension. The calculations on that for an older employee are beyond what could be got elsewhere.

As others said, you don't need to worry about probation. It's an ongoing problem that managers don't properly manage probation (i.e. to exit people who shouldn't be kept). Flip side is it's very hard to get dumped out via probation. Do watch your time and attendance, and do keep talking to your manager. The real reason to watch your performance is to line yourself up for promotion, not to dodge dismissal.

Also, CS is really big. Even if the office you land in doesn't suit you somehow, with a bit of time you can angle for a change.

belleamie

acronym Chilli wrote: »

You won't have a pension like the CS where you are.
That is almost more valuable when you're older. For each year service 1/80 of salary as pension. The calculations on that for an older employee are beyond what could be got elsewhere.

As others said, you don't need to worry about probation. It's an ongoing problem that managers don't properly manage probation (i.e. to exit people who shouldn't be kept). Flip side is it's very hard to get dumped out via probation. Do watch your time and attendance, and do keep talking to your manager. The real reason to watch your performance is to line yourself up for promotion, not to dodge dismissal.

Also, CS is really big. Even if the office you land in doesn't suit you somehow, with a bit of time you can angle for a change.

Have been in current job for coming up to 9 years and rarely off sick or bad attendance, just since I had my son I find things crop up so I don't want to be seen as flaky with attendance if I needed to take time off for any reason for him,but I know things happen and I'm sure if it's not happening every week it'd be acceptable the very odd time - I think that was my biggest worry. I plan to just keep head down and work hard and hopefully get if the chance to get promoted comes up then great

Crunchymomma

acronym Chilli wrote: »

You won't have a pension like the CS where you are.
That is almost more valuable when you're older. For each year service 1/80 of salary as pension. The calculations on that for an older employee are beyond what could be got elsewhere.

As others said, you don't need to worry about probation. It's an ongoing problem that managers don't properly manage probation (i.e. to exit people who shouldn't be kept). Flip side is it's very hard to get dumped out via probation. Do watch your time and attendance, and do keep talking to your manager. The real reason to watch your performance is to line yourself up for promotion, not to dodge dismissal.

Also, CS is really big. Even if the office you land in doesn't suit you somehow, with a bit of time you can angle for a change.

Agree with this last point, due to a promotion and just luck I'm about to go into my third location within a year and a half. You don't have to get stuck somewhere you don't like for ages. They also have a new mobility scheme which isn't live yet which will apparently make it easier to transfer. Afaik you can apply for transfer immediately but you won't get one until you have two years done

belleamie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

maybe check what takehome is vs current at the starting point of the CO scale, rather than gross.

just in case the additional deductions in CS take you by surprise

How would I check that? Could I ring them and ask? I have a feeling I will be unpleasantly surprised but am kinda preparing myself for that

Crunchymomma

belleamie wrote: »

How would I check that? Could I ring them and ask? I have a feeling I will be unpleasantly surprised but am kinda preparing myself for that

Try taxcalc.ie

I think my take home pay as a CO was around 380

wassie

Having worked in both the public and private sectors, I would concur with what most are saying here. You need to take the long term view as to what suits you & your family. To me it sounds like job security is your primary concern. Also as others have pointed out - you need to consider the whole benefits package.

If you are a diligent worker in the private sector and bring the same attitude to the civil service, then probation will be a breeze and you will readily progress.

As for the €4K drop in salary - I assume that's before tax so the drop in take home pay will actually less. Say its actually €3,200 - that means you need to find €266 a month in savings for a year to be effectively no worse off but with improved working conditions and job security. Tough but can be done by most people on average wages if you actually are prepared to budget properly and spend accordingly. Good luck with what ever you decide.

pc7

Also if you plan on having more children in the future you get 6 months full pay in the civil service.

Valentina

hollymartins wrote: »

Flexi is not an entitlement. I have some colleagues in different divisions in my department and some do not get flexi due to the nature of their work. The vast majority of civil servants do get flexi but it's not absolutely guaranteed, it may depend on where you are placed.

The vast majority do unless you're on shift work or a certain grade. A CO starting off is highly likely to have flexi.

Wheety

Valentina wrote: »

The vast majority do unless you're on shift work or a certain grade. A CO starting off is highly likely to have flexi.

If you're placed in certain Departments you won't. I think Dáil staff are quite restricted and the same can be said if you're on a front desk.

But the chances of not having Flexi are very small as the vast majority will.

Edit: Just realising we're saying the same thing

shar01

acronym Chilli wrote: »

You won't have a pension like the CS where you are.
That is almost more valuable when you're older. For each year service 1/80 of salary as pension. The calculations on that for an older employee are beyond what could be got elsewhere.

As others said, you don't need to worry about probation. It's an ongoing problem that managers don't properly manage probation (i.e. to exit people who shouldn't be kept). Flip side is it's very hard to get dumped out via probation. Do watch your time and attendance, and do keep talking to your manager. The real reason to watch your performance is to line yourself up for promotion, not to dodge dismissal.

Also, CS is really big. Even if the office you land in doesn't suit you somehow, with a bit of time you can angle for a change.

Incorrect. OP you'll be in Single Pension Scheme. The benefits are no where near as generous as 1/80th of pay per year of service.

And do pay heed to probation. I'm in the PS and three new starts were recently let go before end of probation.

But as others have said, keep you head down, ask questions, take notes and refer to them and get on with your co-workers and you'll be fine. Best of luck.

belleamie

shar01 wrote: »

Incorrect. OP you'll be in Single Pension Scheme. The benefits are no where near as generous as 1/80th of pay per year of service.

And do pay heed to probation. I'm in the PS and three new starts were recently let go before end of probation.

But as others have said, keep you head down, ask questions, take notes and refer to them and get on with your co-workers and you'll be fine. Best of luck.

On what basis were they let go? Poor performance or attendance, or is it because they didn't get on with co workers? Can you be let go because of that?

shar01

belleamie wrote: »

On what basis were they let go? Poor performance or attendance, or is it because they didn't get on with co workers? Can you be let go because of that?

PM sent

Wheety

I know your money is dropping but you really need to look at the benefits (although they are been eroded all the time). Flexi is great. Basically an extra 18 days off a year, if you build up a day and a half every month but that won't be easy with a baby. A day a month is a more realistic aim if you can start early or finish late most days.

The CS is generally quite good if you need time off. Also look at the salary scale for a few years from now rather than the starting salary. You might be back to what you were on in a few years, and that's not counting any possible promotions.

An Ri rua

Wheety wrote:

I know your money is dropping but you really need to look at the benefits (although they are been eroded all the time). Flexi is great. Basically an extra 18 days off a year, if you build up a day and a half every month but that won't be easy with a baby. A day a month is a more realistic aim if you can start early or finish late most days.

19 days extra a year. Remember, 4 week periods, not months.
Beat of luck OP. Do the marketing as a side gig.

Bobby2004

Just started as an EO. I know this is an old thread but I feel overwhelmed with work thrown at me since i'm just in the door. Started Monday. Would it be rare to be let go at end of probation? I would say my attendance is always exemplary in any job I've been in. I get on with most people and always try my best. Just alot of new systems to get my head around.

Rikand

Bobby2004 wrote: »

Just started as an EO. I know this is an old thread but I feel overwhelmed with work thrown at me since i'm just in the door. Started Monday. Would it be rare to be let go at end of probation? I would say my attendance is always exemplary in any job I've been in. I get on with most people and always try my best. Just alot of new systems to get my head around.

Most new jobs have lots to learn

it would be EXTREMELEY rare to be let go at the end of probabtion. You'd want to be a total **** up altogether. Like, not coming in to work. or Smoking at the desk. or coming into work naked. Like you'd have to be a total headcase, not to get through probation.

Ask loads of questions, get as much help as you can and keep coming into work on time and you will be fine!

in about 2 months you'll be completely up to speed on everything and you'll wonder why on earth you ever thought you'd have a problem in the first place

mayo londoner

I'm in a similar position to the OP of this thread, except taking a much bigger cut (16k after tax 🥺). I'm currently waiting to be assigned but expect to know by end of next week at the latest.

Reasons for taking the cut are moving to be with the GF, looking to get out of construction and the fact I'd have way more flexibility and access to cheaper housing. Current employer is demanding that I go back to office full time once it gets to level 2 with no flexibility so think that was the final straw. Also will be major restructuring going on in the company in the coming weeks which will lead to its own problems.

I suppose my biggest fear is being stuck on the clerical officer payscale for at least 4yrs as I read on another thread that you have to be in civil service for 2yrs before you can start applying for internal competitions and that the EO competition has already commenced in that regard. Am I absolutely bonkers to be taking this job and huge paycut?

Bobby2004

mayo londoner wrote: »

I'm in a similar position to the OP of this thread, except taking a much bigger cut (16k after tax 🥺). I'm currently waiting to be assigned but expect to know by end of next week at the latest.

Reasons for taking the cut are moving to be with the GF, looking to get out of construction and the fact I'd have way more flexibility and access to cheaper housing. Current employer is demanding that I go back to office full time once it gets to level 2 with no flexibility so think that was the final straw. Also will be major restructuring going on in the company in the coming weeks which will lead to its own problems.

I suppose my biggest fear is being stuck on the clerical officer payscale for at least 4yrs as I read on another thread that you have to be in civil service for 2yrs before you can start applying for internal competitions and that the EO competition has already commenced in that regard. Am I absolutely bonkers to be taking this job and huge paycut?

Just from my point of view. I was working in retail and it was going nowhere. Money was better but I'll pass it out in a few years. There will be plenty of opportunities for progression. I think I read some report before taking the EO position that there is going to be alot of retirements right up to 2028. I just wish I made the step when I had no kids or mortgage.

Samuel T. Cogley

It would be rare enough to fail probation and the CS is not known for it's induction training. Just run with it - you'll get a lot thrown at you and just take your time, work that bit later to start with (I know, I know in the CS!!!??!) and you'll get used to it. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

Turtyturd

Best advice I’d give would be make use of your CO’s. You might be new there but they are most likely there a while and I would say odds are at least one of them has been doing EO level duties at some point. When you get something you’re not sure of sit down with one of them and ask them how it’s normally done.

I wouldn’t worry about probation, as others have said it’s a formality unless you really mess up. EO can be a difficult enough position especially if you haven’t managed staff before. You have problems coming from above you, problems from below you and you also have to find time to do your regular work but if you stick with it you’ll figure out how to make it work.

Augme

mayo londoner wrote: »

I'm in a similar position to the OP of this thread, except taking a much bigger cut (16k after tax 🥺). I'm currently waiting to be assigned but expect to know by end of next week at the latest.

Reasons for taking the cut are moving to be with the GF, looking to get out of construction and the fact I'd have way more flexibility and access to cheaper housing. Current employer is demanding that I go back to office full time once it gets to level 2 with no flexibility so think that was the final straw. Also will be major restructuring going on in the company in the coming weeks which will lead to its own problems.

I suppose my biggest fear is being stuck on the clerical officer payscale for at least 4yrs as I read on another thread that you have to be in civil service for 2yrs before you can start applying for internal competitions and that the EO competition has already commenced in that regard. Am I absolutely bonkers to be taking this job and huge paycut?

It up to you to decide if you are bonkers or not. What I will say is don't go into the job expecting a promotion within four years given how the economy is going to go or don't expect to be looking at the same wage levels as they are. Is if you do get promoted.

misstearheus

I wonder did the original O.P. take up the job and get any promotions!

Bobby2004

Anyone know exactly what an EO should get after taxes every month or every 2 weeks because that's how they get paid. I got pay slip for nxt weeks payday and it was 610 net with 319 deductions. Since I only started Mon I wil have only 8 days worked til den. Thought I was taking a pay cut from my previous job but not that significant!

Bobby2004

Bobby2004 wrote: »

Anyone know exactly what an EO should get after taxes every month or every 2 weeks because that's how they get paid. I got pay slip for nxt weeks payday and it was 610 net with 319 deductions. Since I only started Mon I wil have only 8 days worked til den. Thought I was taking a pay cut from my previous job but not that significant!

Sounds like your on emergency tax. Not unusual for the first pay if the tax details haven't been received from revenue.

Call revenue Monday and get them to transfer your tax credits to your new job.
EO is paid over 14 days. Starting on a Monday means you loose 3 days pay.
Fortnight pay is the annual divided by 26.09

GarIT

Bobby2004 wrote: »

Anyone know exactly what an EO should get after taxes every month or every 2 weeks because that's how they get paid. I got pay slip for nxt weeks payday and it was 610 net with 319 deductions. Since I only started Mon I wil have only 8 days worked til den. Thought I was taking a pay cut from my previous job but not that significant!

Nobody can answer that, everyone pays a different amount of tax. To work that out we would need to know, if you are married, how much they earn, how many kids you have, if any of those are in college, your total medical expenses for the year, whether your previous job required a uniform and a few other things.

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Sounds like your on emergency tax. Not unusual for the first pay if the tax details haven't been received from revenue.

Call revenue Monday and get them to transfer your tax credits to your new job.
EO is paid over 14 days. Starting on a Monday means you loose 3 days pay.
Fortnight pay is the annual divided by 26.09

All can be done online now. MyAccount on the Revenue website.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

Nobody can answer that, everyone pays a different amount of tax. To work that out we would need to know, if you are married, how much they earn, how many kids you have, if any of those are in college, your total medical expenses for the year, whether your previous job required a uniform and a few other things.





All can be done online now. MyAccount on the Revenue website.

Amazing how many people don't have revenue accounts

MrsBean

Check your payslip to see if you're on Week 1 or Cumulative basis. Likely Week 1.
You will need to log in to your revenue online, click 'manage my tax' and make sure your employer details are up to date.

Also worth your while clicking 'my enquires' and submitting a query about Week 1 basis for them to adjust it.
Will be resolved in a couple of days.

Bobby2004

Bobby2004 wrote: »

Just from my point of view. I was working in retail and it was going nowhere. Money was better but I'll pass it out in a few years. There will be plenty of opportunities for progression. I think I read some report before taking the EO position that there is going to be alot of retirements right up to 2028. I just wish I made the step when I had no kids or mortgage.

same boat - retail for decade or so - at 31 got this CO job and its probably best move despite paying a bit less at first but yearly increments make up and the pension and i think my next point i skip to year 5 from 3 - so there is benefits and a few restorations...that's good to hear about the E/O thing as i just missed out on the latest contest and want to move up

daffodill50

Bobby2004 wrote: »

Anyone know exactly what an EO should get after taxes every month or every 2 weeks because that's how they get paid. I got pay slip for nxt weeks payday and it was 610 net with 319 deductions. Since I only started Mon I wil have only 8 days worked til den. Thought I was taking a pay cut from my previous job but not that significant!

Phone revenue and speak to an actual person, much less hassle. Also, have the Depts registration number to hand, can get this off your Payslip. Sounds like you're on emergency tax and it gets worse as the weeks go on so phone asap.