Confused about the claim settlement

dkaw99

Hi everyone,

Almost two years ago I sustained an injury whilst on a plane and the matter was being handled by my solicitors in Dublin. A week ago I attended court for the settlement together with my solicitor and him and the airline's solicitor have reached an agreement. Now this is where the confusion starts as my solicitors told me simply '3000 EUR is what you are getting after all the fees and costs'. Nothing was mentioned about the full pay-out by the airline and then the legal costs deducted; it was simply stated that I will receive this exact amount after all the costs (very vague). I contacted the solicitor over email straight away and after she missed two deadlines we agreed on for her to send this, she finally send me an email today.

1. The VAT at 1354.34 EUR is actually 23% and not 21% as stated, but I assume this to be simple mistake as the VAT is actually 23%, so no issues there
2. Outlays + Stamp duty + Commissioners Fee add up to 840 EUR as opposed to 850 EUR stated in the total Outlay box
3. Total counsel adds up to 3905.25 EUR as opposed to 3907.25 EUR - again a small difference, but it seems unprofessional to make three mistakes in a one-page document.

That's where my understanding ends and this is where I would like to ask for your help. What adds up to what? How do I deduct what I'm actually owed? What are those counsel fees; I thought it was a simple no-win-no-fee where the solicitors take a certain percentage of the winnings if we win, but now it seems that their fees add up to 3905.25 EUR (or the 7242.25 EUR?).

My solicitors are not very helpful at all at this stage.

Thank you in advance for all your help.

Cookie_Monster

I'd read that as you were awarded 9099 and they deducted all the fees etc leaving you with 3000. 9099-1354-840-3905, or if that 3905 already includes the VAT the original award was around 7650

sexmag

Solicitors are not allowed deduct/calculate a percentage of settlements for their fees.

You must awarded the entire amount and then make a payment to them.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/civil_law/cost_of_the_case.html

ichabod

I am probably missing something but did the claim not go to the PIAB first ? Also, solicitors don't make settlements. Your solicitor simply negotiates and then presents the offer to the client for a yes or a no. I hope you haven't accepted that offer yet.

Pat Mustard

dkaw99 wrote: »

Nothing was mentioned about the full pay-out by the airline and then the legal costs deducted; it was simply stated that I will receive this exact amount after all the costs (very vague).

What you need to do is to ask your solicitor for all of the relevant details. You can ask what was the settlement figure, what amount for your legal costs were agreed to be paid by the other side (or was there an all-in settlement figure?), what were your own solicitor's fees and outlays (to include court fees and counsel's fees etc., etc) and how the figure of €3k was calculated.

You may need to make an appointment to meet your solicitor to get an adequate explanation.

barman linen

Pat Mustard wrote: »

What you need to do is to ask your solicitor for all of the relevant details. You can ask what was the settlement figure, what amount for your legal costs were agreed to be paid by the other side (or was there an all-in settlement figure?), what were your own solicitor's fees and outlays (to include court fees and counsel's fees etc., etc) and how the figure of €3k was calculated.

You may need to make an appointment to meet your solicitor to get an adequate explanation.

Why are people in awe of solicitors in issues like this ? Can you not simply get them to outline all of the details - the award - the costs - what were the outlays .

If you don't get it then you simply report them to their regulatory body.

Why are people afraid ? If your solicitor is fobbing you off give them a deadline to respond and if they don't then go nuclear with the Law Society.

randomrb

barman linen wrote: »

Why are people in awe of solicitors in issues like this ? Can you not simply get them to outline all of the details - the award - the costs - what were the outlays .

If you don't get it then you simply report them to their regulatory body.

Why are people afraid ? If your solicitor is fobbing you off give them a deadline to respond and if they don't then go nuclear with the Law Society.

I don't see how this is being in awe of anyone? if you get a bill from anyone that you dont understand the first step is to talk to them and get an explanation.

Effects

barman linen wrote: »

If your solicitor is fobbing you off give them a deadline to respond and if they don't then go nuclear with the Law Society.

Go nuclear with their self regulating Law Society? Nice try

Effects

randomrb wrote: »

I don't see how this is being in awe of anyone? if you get a bill from anyone that you dont understand the first step is to talk to them and get an explanation.

Or else try and get someone else to explain it to you before you go back and query it.

Can you trust them as they've already taken their fees, which it was pointed out they are not allowed to do.

People are wary of solicitors as there are a lot of bad ones out there.

Misguided1

What fee/% did you agree with your solicitor when you asked them to represent you?
What was in the contract you would have signed? Did you agree to compensation with or without legal fees included? Presumably you would have asked the airline to pick up the legal fees if they were at fault?

Sounds somewhat unusual to be honest.

Pat Mustard

barman linen wrote: »

Why are people in awe of solicitors in issues like this ? Can you not simply get them to outline all of the details - the award - the costs - what were the outlays .

If you don't get it then you simply report them to their regulatory body.

Why are people afraid ? If your solicitor is fobbing you off give them a deadline to respond and if they don't then go nuclear with the Law Society.

They aren't.

NUTLEY BOY

Was there a S. 68 letter from the solicitor before instructions were given to act ?

randomrb

Misguided1 wrote: »

What fee/% did you agree with your solicitor when you asked them to represent you?
What was in the contract you would have signed? Did you agree to compensation with or without legal fees included? Presumably you would have asked the airline to pick up the legal fees if they were at fault?

Sounds somewhat unusual to be honest.

Its not unusual at all. A settlement means that no one is technically at fault, so therefore they don't directly pay the costs but they factor it into the settlement. It sounds like this is a no foal no fee case so it would have been set out that any fee would be taken from the settlement. If you have a dispute with the level of the fees that is a different matter that can be taken up with the Law Society

Squatter

One Senior and two junior counsel costing almost €4k in total, for a compo claim that was worth a mere €3K to the plaintiff! - is this normal?

Misguided1

randomrb wrote: »

Its not unusual at all. A settlement means that no one is technically at fault, so therefore they don't directly pay the costs but they factor it into the settlement. It sounds like this is a no foal no fee case so it would have been set out that any fee would be taken from the settlement. If you have a dispute with the level of the fees that is a different matter that can be taken up with the Law Society

Are 'no foal no fee' arrangements legal in Ireland?

Pat Mustard

Misguided1 wrote: »

Are 'no foal no fee' arrangements legal in Ireland?

Solicitors may not advertise on that basis because the term is misleading. Even if a solicitor does not charge a fee, the client may have to pay costs, if he loses his case (for example). Also, many solicitors do not cover outlays such as medical reports, meaning the client has to pay for those, in the hope of recouping these costs later on.

sexmag

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Solicitors may not advertise on that basis because the term is misleading. Even if a solicitor does not charge a fee, the client may have to pay costs, if he loses his case (for example). Also, many solicitors do not cover outlays such as medical reports, meaning the client has to pay for those, in the hope of recouping these costs later on.

whats your opinion on this matter Pat? Are you legal spiddy senses tingling?

dr.fuzzenstein

Squatter wrote: »

One Senior and two junior counsel costing almost €4k in total, for a compo claim that was worth a mere €3K to the plaintiff! - is this normal?

No, payouts usually start at €15k. More if there's an actual injury.

Pat Mustard

Squatter wrote: »

One Senior and two junior counsel

Where are you getting this?

Pat Mustard

sexmag wrote: »

whats your opinion on this matter Pat? Are you legal spiddy senses tingling?

Not sure but I suppose the OP would need to give more info.

angel eyes 2012

ichabod wrote: »

I am probably missing something but did the claim not go to the PIAB first ? Also, solicitors don't make settlements. Your solicitor simply negotiates and then presents the offer to the client for a yes or a no. I hope you haven't accepted that offer yet.

Yes, Personal Injury claims are obliged to go to PIAB first. I have a feeling the OP's Solicitor did not inform them of the PIAB option, particularly if the Defendant consented to the claim going through the process initially.

OP should have submitted their claim through PIAB without the assistance of a solicitor, the process is actually very straightforward (and no I don't work for them, I just dislike when some solicitors are not upfront and transparent about costs and court procedures). It is solicitors like this that give the rest a bad name.

Pat Mustard

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

I have a feeling the OP's Solicitor did not inform them of the PIAB option

But you didn't ask.

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

OP should have submitted their claim through PIAB without the assistance of a solicitor, the process is actually very straightforward (and no I don't work for them, I just dislike when some solicitors are not upfront and transparent about costs and court procedures). It is solicitors like this that give the rest a bad name.

There are entire threads on this, which deal with the fact that claimants do not know how to value their claims and they don't know whether they are getting the correct value. Also, many claimants have difficulty in identifying the correct defendants. By the time the issue is discovered by a solicitor, it may be too late to do anything about it.

angel eyes 2012

Pat Mustard, but you didn't ask if the OP was capable of identifying the correct defendant, perhaps they were perfectly able to do it, perhaps not. The fact is that there is a cohort of solictors that do not provide clear, unambiguous advice to their clients and the fact that the OP had to resort to seeking clairification via an online platform is a perfect example of this.

randomrb

Misguided1 wrote: »

Are 'no foal no fee' arrangements legal in Ireland?

Yes but as a previous poster said it can't be done for a percentage of the claim only for fees involved

randomrb

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Yes, Personal Injury claims are obliged to go to PIAB first. I have a feeling the OP's Solicitor did not inform them of the PIAB option, particularly if the Defendant consented to the claim going through the process initially.

OP should have submitted their claim through PIAB without the assistance of a solicitor, the process is actually very straightforward (and no I don't work for them, I just dislike when some solicitors are not upfront and transparent about costs and court procedures). It is solicitors like this that give the rest a bad name.

How could the solicitor not have told them about PIAB, as far as I know you need a certificate from PIAB saying that you went through the process to instigate court proceedings for personal injury

Squatter

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Where are you getting this?

It's on the scanned bill posted at the start of this thread.

barman linen

Effects wrote: »

Go nuclear with their self regulating Law Society? Nice try

I agree it may be futile but can focus attention to your requests. Too many people just roll over and don't follow up when they are being given the run around by service providers ( not just solicitors )

barman linen

randomrb wrote: »

I don't see how this is being in awe of anyone? if you get a bill from anyone that you dont understand the first step is to talk to them and get an explanation.

I agree - but the solicitor doesn't seem to have given him the full information and he doesn't seem to have followed up.

Pat Mustard

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Pat Mustard, but you didn't ask if the OP was capable of identifying the correct defendant

This is irrelevant. I was pointing out how you were jumping to a conclusion.

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

the fact that the OP had to resort to seeking clairification via an online platform is a perfect example of this.

A statement made on a semi-anonymous discussion site is not good evidence of what you claim.

Pat Mustard

Squatter wrote: »

It's on the scanned bill posted at the start of this thread.

Thanks for that. That link didn't work for me until you reposted it.

Pat Mustard

I am closing this for mod review.

Please allow 48 hours before sending any PMs in this regard.

Pat Mustard

Mod:

Image of bill removed. The details may be posted but the image of the bill is not to be attached or linked. No personal information relating to any party is to be posted here.

No legal advice is to be sought or given.

The thread is about the bill and the settlement. Posters are asked to keep on topic or not to post at all.

Thread reopened for general discussion but not legal advice.

NUTLEY BOY

Unless we know the exact terms of engagement of the solicitor we might be going in to something of a holding pattern.

Even if there was a no foal - no fee type arrangement the solicitor still has to put the other side's offer to the client. I infer from the OP that he was told what he was getting as distinct from what was on offer and that is just bad practice.

As far as negotiated settlements go it is quite normal for agreement to be reached on the basis of €X in agreed damages and full party and party costs. You do not have to have issued proceedings to make a settlement on that basis.

Some settlements are made on a global basis whereby the claimant is offered through his solicitor/counsel an inclusive figure of €X and no separate party and party costs. In that event it is between the claimant and solicitor to negotiate what happens with the costs. Again, I would expect that to be communicated to the client first as a matter of proper practice.

I still see no mention of a S. 68 letter.