Banned from After Hours - Shame on Boards

JackTaylorFan

I will start this dispute claim with this statement

Last night I logged onto the After Hours forum, to be confronted with one of the most shockingly transphobic threads I have yet witnessed on Boards, and that is saying something. As a member of the trans community, I found myself reading comments, not only attacking the very identity of trans people - conflating our existence to a fetish and even implying paedophilla was somehow involved - but also attacking the already underwhelming healthcare we receive from the Irish state. The whole thread was set about by transphobic users mocking, denying and refusing to accept that trans people, and children in particular, should be given the treatment they require.

The amount of misinformation, moral panic arguments and blatant disregard for trans people's lives on that thread was beyond the pale. And though, it is certainly one of the worst threads I have witnessed since joining up, it is certainly not the only one. It is a constant theme on that forum: pick out this minority for abuse and ridicule with ludicrous allegations such as treating trans children to World Health Organisations standards somehow amounts to child abuse.

I believe this deeply troubling and dangerous transphobic attitude goes further than just a few registered users but also to the Mod/Admin of that forum itself. On several occasions I have reported these outrageously abusive posts, and found I am the one the mods choose to discipline for, quite frankly, given the situation, a rather civil reply to a wholly hostile attack.


As a transwoman, I am passionate about the rights of all trans people. And suitable healthcare is a basic right for all of us. And when the healthcare of vulnerable trans children is under attack- alongside treating doctors, nurses and parents involved in their care - it is deeply troubling.

What is being allowed to happen on Boards at present, is not only an attack on the whole trans community but also a very personal one for each and every trans person. To add insult to injury, these people compare our existence to a fetish; they dehumanise us; and compare doctors and parents of trans children to child abusers. This behaviour is entirely unacceptable but this is exactly what is being allowed and indeed sanctioned and protected in the After Hours forum.

Thanks for reading

I have already tried opening a dialogue with the mod directly involved in this incident, they were quite clear not only in refusing to overturn the decision, but also to even engage in a discussion. They also made it quite clear they did not see a problem with the entirely provocative nature of the thread in question: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107465698#post107465698 Which I am saddened to say is still being allowed to continue, despite it's highly damaging, hate-filled nature. I also believe this mod to hold the same transphobic views of the majority of those who posted in that - as the mod described: "a fairly decent thread". The thread is nothing more than an attack on our rights and our very identity.

The following is the extent of the conversation that took place between me and the mod in question:

Putinbot: Dear JackTaylorFan,

You have been banned from After Hours for six months for being uncivil.

Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ.

If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here.

Putinbot

Moderator Note

post107460742


Me: So you are just going to overlook the blatant teansphobia on that thread, then?

You're probably doing me a favour, but on principle, I think I'll challenge this one.

Why do I not have permission to create a thread in the dispute forum?


PutinBot: There is something messed up with the ban notices that directs people to the prison forum for some reason. here is the link to the DRP forum https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1397


As to your ban. Your post was a disgusting attack on what has been a fairly decent thread. I'll not be lifting the ban.


Me: "A fairly decent thread"?

In what world are you living in exactly?

I will be opening a dispute. And I seriously question your ability to mod fairly also.

Regards

I will reiterate what I stated in that quote above, that that whole thread is an attack not just on a community but also a deeply personal insult to every single trans woman and man just trying to live their lives. By allowing it to continue Boards is condoning bigotry and hatred of the trans community on an horrific, disgusting level.

I also stand by what I said in my single reply on that thread. My tone was in no was way as disrespectful as the absolute vile and blatant attack that took place on our whole community yesterday, an attack which is no doubt still being condoned by Boards as I write this. It was hate speech plain and simple - based on good old-fashioned bigotry, fear-mongering and conjecture on a level that homosexuals had to endure over 20 years ago. What you are doing to this trans community by allowing this to continue unchecked is so deeply damaging, so much so, that you should actually be ashamed of yourselves as a whole. You have a responsibility to stop hate speech - you would not tolerate a discussion on the validity of the people of colour - yet, you idly standby and allow this assault on the trans community to go unchecked. You allow the provocation of a vulnerable minority and wait to tone-police said minority under attack - i.e. me, in this scenario.

Shame on everyone on Boards who condones the words and actions of the people involved in continuously attacking the trans community in the way I witnessed yesterday evening.

JackTaylorFan

I would also like to make clear, that no discussion on the issue of trans health care can ever be deemed respectable, when it begins in the tone that this one did. How can you justify a thread on trans health care that literally equates us to a "fetish"; to paedophillia; and to any other number of claims of child abuse. It was not an argument set out in good faith, it was simply transphobia. We do not discuss the treatment plan for any other medical procedure in such a derogatory manner as people do trans healthcare. Would you allow threads where members accuse doctors of malpractice and child abuse for treating cancer patients? I don't think so. Trying to legitimize this ill-informed opinion- based raging against transgender people is abhorrent. And to expect us to sit and listen and engage in such a hostile environment with people who have clearly no intention of changing their opinion or even listen to the concerns we have is laughable.



Furthermore, I will add that I have seen the claims made by that OP, that I sent them unpleasant PMs in the past - this is a blatant lie and I should have the right to defend myself seeing as my character rather than my points are being scrutinized constantly. Here is the one and only message I have ever sent the user Malayalam:

Dated: 07-02-2018, 21:38
RE: Trans Children Debate
Hi

I can't reply in thread so wished to take the opportunity to reply in private - just to clarify a few things.

I did read your tongue-in-cheek in-thread "apology", and excusing the arrogance you displayed in it - to think you have "hurt" me is laughable - I saw some sense in it. But you did attack the treatment of trans children - and this I took issue with. Is my manner aggressive on this subject? Of course. Your would be too. The fact is you brought the issue of healthcare for transgender people into an already hostile arena where it had no place being.

I am trans, I think Trudeau is a bit of a bellend - I do not agree with using words like "peoplekind" - but again, this has nothing to do with the treatment of vulnerable trans children and you linking it to gender politics and politically weaponising the issue is a disgracefully, cowardly act.

There. That's it.

Regards

If that is considered unpleasant, or "uncivil" then please tell me why the user did not report the message or if they did why no action was taken against me?



Finally, I would like to have noted the hostility aimed at me for daring to speak out about this issue. A deeply personal issue that does not affect the people so eager to have the debate. Here is just one example:

Originally Posted by dudara
@benjamin d - Abuse or name calling of another poster is not allowed. Cool your jets and make your point without insults

dudara
Again, you're right. I was calling out weasely behaviour rather than specifically name-calling. I'll choose my words more carefully but my initial point stands.

Did this person receive a ban for being uncivil?

Pawwed Rig

Hi JTF.
I can look at this for you. I note the pms you posted already but please forward the exchange where you discussed the issue with the mod to attempt to resolve the issue.

JackTaylorFan

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Hi JTF.
I can look at this for you. I note the pms you posted already but please forward the exchange where you discussed the issue with the mod to attempt to resolve the issue.

This was it

Putinbot: Dear JackTaylorFan,

You have been banned from After Hours for six months for being uncivil.

Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ.

If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here.

Putinbot

Moderator Note

post107460742


Me: So you are just going to overlook the blatant teansphobia on that thread, then?

You're probably doing me a favour, but on principle, I think I'll challenge this one.

Why do I not have permission to create a thread in the dispute forum?


PutinBot: There is something messed up with the ban notices that directs people to the prison forum for some reason. here is the link to the DRP forum https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1397


As to your ban. Your post was a disgusting attack on what has been a fairly decent thread. I'll not be lifting the ban.


Me: "A fairly decent thread"?

In what world are you living in exactly?

I will be opening a dispute. And I seriously question your ability to mod fairly also.

Regards

Pawwed Rig

Ok I see no attempt to resolve the issue in the pms posted so far. As per step 1 of the DRP process please engage with the mod to attempt to resolve the issue. Once that discussion is complete please update us here as to whether the issue is resolved or requires cmod input.

JackTaylorFan

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ok I see no attempt to resolve the issue in the pms posted so far. As per step 1 of the DRP process please engage with the mod to attempt to resolve the issue. Once that discussion is complete please update us here as to whether the issue is resolved or requires cmod input.

I did. They told me the ban will not be overturned. They have refused to engage with me further. It's all there in the post you requested.

JackTaylorFan

Here is the final message the mod engaged me in

PutinBot: There is something messed up with the ban notices that directs people to the prison forum for some reason. here is the link to the DRP forum https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1397


As to your ban. Your post was a disgusting attack on what has been a fairly decent thread. I'll not be lifting the ban.

Pawwed Rig

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

I did. They told me the ban will not be overturned. They have refused to engage with me further. It's all there in the post you requested.

Please re engage with mod. Nothing you wrote to him was an attempt at a civil discussion to resolve the matter. Bear in mind that our mods are volunteers.

JackTaylorFan

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Please re engage with mod. Nothing you wrote to him was an attempt at a civil discussion to resolve the matter. Bear in mind that our mods are volunteers.

I'm sorry but they told me they are unwilling to overturn their decision. How am I not to take this as their final decision on the matter?

They have not responded to my further messages. So what else can I do but request CMod investigation?

dudara

Please note that only the OP, CMods or Admins can post in DR. All other posts will be deleted

dudara

Pawwed Rig

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

I'm sorry but they told me they are unwilling to overturn their decision. How am I not to take this as their final decision on the matter?

They have not responded to my further messages. So what else can I do but request CMod investigation?

Your initial pm was not conducive to discussion so not surprising that the response was blunt. Wait 24-48 hours and when you have a cooler head reengage.

JackTaylorFan

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Your initial pm was not conducive to discussion so not surprising that the response was blunt. Wait 24-48 hours and when you have a cooler head reengage.

I have tried to reengage with the mod. I will await the time period you have suggested for a response.

But I would kindly request that you not make assumptions about what mood or emotion I may be experiencing whilst I am conversing with you. I have not displayed any hostility or used any aggression towards you at all.

Thank you.

Pawwed Rig

Thanks. And please limit the discussion with the mod to the post you were banned for. Boards, the mod themselves, posts of others or other matters are beyond the scope of this DRP and beyond what the mod should be discussing with you.
I will check back in late tomorrow to see if a resolution has been reached.

JackTaylorFan

Hi

I have reengaged with the mod and was unable to reach any kind of suitable agreement with them. They refused to remove the ban completely - which is the only outcome I will accept in the matter - and I refused to take an unjustified 3 month reduction.

Here is the transcript:

JackTaylorFan wrote:

A Cmod in the dispute thread has asked me to try open a dialogue with you once again. Are you willing to have a discussion about the possibilty of overturning my wrongful banning for After Hours or not?

Putinbot wrote:

Your post deserves a ban but maybe 6 months is a bit long. I'm willing to reduce it to a 3 month ban.

JackTaylorFan wrote:

I do not accept any ban, or even wrongdoing in this case. So are we willing to discuss why I feel the ban is unjustified based on the ridiculous level of transphobic provocation I was subjected to whilst viewing that forum?

If not, that's fine with me. And I will reopen the dispute and you can standby your original ban.

Putinbot wrote:

I've made my offer. If your not happy with that then you can go back to drp.

JackTaylorFan wrote:

Fine. I will return to the dispute thread.


And with all due respect, your offer is absolute garbage and your attitude here has been nothing but patronizing. Acting like what you are doing is somehow being lenient when you know-full well what is happening in that thread is nothing more than a platform for transphobic Boards users to have a dig at transpeople - and at transwomen in particular. I have looked at the thread this morning - it has veered way off its original dubious course: attacking trans women for everything; sharing videos with transphobic slurs in the very title; attacking a victorious Miss Universe contestant; attacking us for just existing. And you defending it as a "decent" thread is a joke.

The absolute gall of it.

Pawwed Rig

Ok. As you are not willing to engage civilly with the mod and thereby complete step 1 in the process I am going to uphold the ban.

JackTaylorFan

Fine, I request an admin look into this whole situation: the extreme provocation involved and the mod-sanctioned transphobia on After Hours.

JackTaylorFan

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ok. As you are not willing to engage civilly with the mod and thereby complete step 1 in the process I am going to uphold the ban.

What you consider uncivil, I consider telling the truth.

dudara

Hi, I am happy to look into your ban. Please note that I will only be reviewing the circumstances of your ban and whether it was justified or not. The DR process is about the actions of the individual and therefore accusations of transphobia in AH are not in the scope of the DRP process.

JackTaylorFan

dudara wrote: »

Hi, I am happy to look into your ban. Please note that I will only be reviewing the circumstances of your ban and whether it was justified or not. The DR process is about the actions of the individual and therefore accusations of transphobia in AH are not in the scope of the DRP process.

My comments were in direct reply to a totally malicious, ill-informed OP that was designed to drum-up transphobia. I fail to see how you can take my post in that thread in isolation.

I would also like you to clarify as to the "uncivil" nature of my point by point reply to the OP.

Thank you.

dudara

I’ve reviewed the thread in question and I acknowledge that this is a matter about which you care very much.

You say that you gave a point by point response to the OP. Yes you did, but you also edited their post in your quote in quite a dismissive manner. That’s poor enough form but the true incivility came when you effectively called them a paedophile. This is simply unacceptable. No matter how intense you feel about this, you cannot resort to accusations like that. I shouldn’t have to explain to you how that was uncivil.

Your behaviour during this DRP been far from ideal also. You refused to engage civilly with the mod, who was prepared to reduce the ban by half.

I’ve looked at your previous record in AH, and given that your last ban was for a month, I am prepared to offer you a reduced ban of 3 months, same as offered to you by the mod.

JackTaylorFan

dudara wrote: »

You say that you gave a point by point response to the OP. Yes you did, but you also edited their post in your quote in quite a dismissive manner. That’s poor enough form but the true incivility came when you effectively called them a paedophile.

No, sorry, I will dispute this claim, also.

The OP brought pedophillia into the discussion at the very beginning of the thread. So me saying they were projecting a pedophillilc tone into discussion is 100% accurate. In fact, that user's assertion, their conflating the entire trans community, parents of trans children and healthcare proffesionals to child abuse and pedophillia is the biggest insult here - which you and and all the mods involved seem so happy to overlook.

As, I said at the beginning of the dispute, and as a matter of principle, I will not accept any wrongdoing in this matter. I will not take a reduction in the length of the ban in exchange for wrongly acknowledging any guilt here. If you want to ban me from AH, or from Boards completely, then, buy all means do so. At this stage I couldn't give a damn. This site continues to sanction and defend blatant transphobia and to a lesser but still shameful extent, homophobia, at the all levels.

The only forum and moderators I have any respect for here are the ones running the LGBT forum - the rest of what I have experienced here has been a joke, quite honestly.

So yeah, uphold the ban. Extend it. I really don't care. I've made my point.

Boards.ie, and After Hours in particular, is a cesspool. A highly toxic place full of harmful transphobic trash.

So do me a favour.

Thanks.

dudara

An Admin decision is final. You do not get to dispute it.

In reviewing the thread and your actions, I tried to remain sensitive to your point of view. But the simple fact is that you accused someone of paedophila. I honestly don’t know what mental gymnastics you are performing to convince yourself that that is an acceptable thing to do. There are plenty of ways to argue your POV without resorting to that.

As you will not accept my finding, it is with regret that I’m closing this DRP.