Encouraging hive to Move On

Cushtie

Hi,
I have what I belive to be a sizeable colony of Honey Bees in the cavity wall of my house. They have been there for at least two years. They seem to have got in a tiny opening right at the apex of the roof and soffit. The is also a chimney there so they are in the cavity behind the chimney. Very awkward to get at as it's 2 storey.

Around this time last year a local bee keeper came to have a look. He went up to attic and removed as much as he could of the bees and comb but he failed to get the queen. He came back again about a week later to try again and decided it was too difficult to get the rest. Due to the chimney getting in the way. He charged me about €200 for these 2 calls. Fair enough I suppose. Anyway he reckoned the only way he could remove the rest was get a cherry picker and take off some of the roof tiles and go in from above. The quote for this was sizeable and frankly I didnt have the funds so decided to leave them there. I was hoping they might die off or leave during the winter but no such luck.

Anyway the other half is threatening divorce if I don't do something about them. They are quite active and some are finding their way down in to the house. Same as this time last year.

Is there anyway I can encourage them to up sticks and leave? Or If I waited until later in the year (do the numbers reduce?) and seal up the hole would the remaining bees die off and then I could go in through the attic again and try to do a clean up job?

Any advice greatly appreciated

Cushtie.

kingbhome

What part of the country is it

Cushtie

County Limerick

wexfordman2

Cushtie wrote: »

Hi,
I have what I belive to be a sizeable colony of Honey Bees in the cavity wall of my house. They have been there for at least two years. They seem to have got in a tiny opening right at the apex of the roof and soffit. The is also a chimney there so they are in the cavity behind the chimney. Very awkward to get at as it's 2 storey.

Around this time last year a local bee keeper came to have a look. He went up to attic and removed as much as he could of the bees and comb but he failed to get the queen. He came back again about a week later to try again and decided it was too difficult to get the rest. Due to the chimney getting in the way. He charged me about €200 for these 2 calls. Fair enough I suppose. Anyway he reckoned the only way he could remove the rest was get a cherry picker and take off some of the roof tiles and go in from above. The quote for this was sizeable and frankly I didnt have the funds so decided to leave them there. I was hoping they might die off or leave during the winter but no such luck.

Anyway the other half is threatening divorce if I don't do something about them. They are quite active and some are finding their way down in to the house. Same as this time last year.

Is there anyway I can encourage them to up sticks and leave? Or If I waited until later in the year (do the numbers reduce?) and seal up the hole would the remaining bees die off and then I could go in through the attic again and try to do a clean up job?

Any advice greatly appreciated

Cushtie.

Cheeky fecker charging 200 euro, never mind the fact that he didn't actually do anything productive for you in the end.

Hope you asked him for a receipt

Cushtie

Ha no, Cash job I'm afraid. In fairness I think he did his best. He was here for a good few hours over the 2 visits and unless he was having a kip up in the attic I think he prob earned what I paid him! He did remove a large amount of bess and comb from what I saw, Just the akwardness of where it was meant he couldn't get at all of them.

kingbhome

If you contact your local beekeeping association someone should come and remove it for free.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Try not to kill em anyway, we need the bees!

brianmc

Cushtie wrote: »

Hi,
I have what I belive to be a sizeable colony of Honey Bees in the cavity wall of my house. They have been there for at least two years. They seem to have got in a tiny opening right at the apex of the roof and soffit. The is also a chimney there so they are in the cavity behind the chimney. Very awkward to get at as it's 2 storey.

Around this time last year a local bee keeper came to have a look. He went up to attic and removed as much as he could of the bees and comb but he failed to get the queen. He came back again about a week later to try again and decided it was too difficult to get the rest. Due to the chimney getting in the way. He charged me about €200 for these 2 calls. Fair enough I suppose. Anyway he reckoned the only way he could remove the rest was get a cherry picker and take off some of the roof tiles and go in from above. The quote for this was sizeable and frankly I didnt have the funds so decided to leave them there. I was hoping they might die off or leave during the winter but no such luck.

Anyway the other half is threatening divorce if I don't do something about them. They are quite active and some are finding their way down in to the house. Same as this time last year.

Is there anyway I can encourage them to up sticks and leave? Or If I waited until later in the year (do the numbers reduce?) and seal up the hole would the remaining bees die off and then I could go in through the attic again and try to do a clean up job?

Any advice greatly appreciated

Cushtie.

Hi Cushtie,

I wrote a long reply to another post here that is probably relevant.

If the bees really are a nuisance I think you need to consider a "practical" approach to getting rid of them. It is unfair to ask people to spend time and money demolishing part of their house to save a colony of honeybees. I understand entirely the desire to "help the bees" and not do more harm but there are a few details to consider.

• Honeybees are not under threat. The number of colonies kept in Ireland and other countries is increasing over the last several years. They are also not "protected".
  
• Beekeepers who manage their colonies well can make increase in their number of stocks with relative ease.
  
• If a beekeeper did rescue this colony, most will straight away or eventually requeen the colony with a queen of known origin. The genetics of your colony in the roof will likely not be kept and likely should not be kept.

What's a practical approach... Well, if you can't reasonably get access to the colony and they are causing a problem, poisoning sounds like an option... but...

• There will be a large nest of comb with a lot of honey (especially this year) in it left behind. This can start to decay over time and may cause some issues in the building... fermenting honey will start to leak out etc.
  
• Unless access to the nest is sealed up or the cavity that was used gets filled in, a new swarm of honeybees will be back in next year.
  
• If the nest is not sealed up/removed straight away other bees will possibly rob all of the honey out of it... I'm not very familiar with the pesticides and techniques used by pest controllers but I would be concerned about collateral damage to other colonies in the area from pesticide residues.

So...

If you can't reasonably get access to get the bees out, you probably can't get access to clear the left over comb out either. Do you think the mass of honey left behind will be an issue where it is? If not, perhaps poisoning and immediately sealing up the site is the best approach.

If the honey is an issue, then you're going to need access to the comb (in which case perhaps you may as well save the bees). If you can get access, the comb should be cleared out and the cavity ideally filled to prevent a new colony from building there. Often it is difficult to seal up every entrance.

Finally, each to their own in deciding how much effort they are willing to put in to saving a colony of bees.

I just feel bad for people in this situation who are being told how important that colony is and how the bees are protected, etc.

Honeybees are to our bee population as chickens are to our bird population. It is the diversity of other bees and pollinators that are in desperate need of our help.

Cushtie

kingbhome wrote: »

If you contact your local beekeeping association someone should come and remove it for free.

That was what I done originally. And the guy that came was recommended by them.

kingbhome

Cushtie wrote: »

That was what I done originally. And the guy that came was recommended by them.

Phone them again. I'm sure they'd know someone whod do it for free.

dto001

Hi Cushtie,
There are chemicals which are supposed to force a hive to abscond but im not sure where exactly you get these I'm sure you can get them online here's a link to a page of a fella in the states discussing it. 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/5egg0t/bee_quick_versus_smoke_for_forcing_an_absconsion/
It might not work but its worth a try
cheers

Cushtie

brianmc wrote: »

Cushtie wrote: »

Hi,
I have what I belive to be a sizeable colony of Honey Bees in the cavity wall of my house. They have been there for at least two years. They seem to have got in a tiny opening right at the apex of the roof and soffit. The is also a chimney there so they are in the cavity behind the chimney. Very awkward to get at as it's 2 storey.

Around this time last year a local bee keeper came to have a look. He went up to attic and removed as much as he could of the bees and comb but he failed to get the queen. He came back again about a week later to try again and decided it was too difficult to get the rest. Due to the chimney getting in the way. He charged me about €200 for these 2 calls. Fair enough I suppose. Anyway he reckoned the only way he could remove the rest was get a cherry picker and take off some of the roof tiles and go in from above. The quote for this was sizeable and frankly I didnt have the funds so decided to leave them there. I was hoping they might die off or leave during the winter but no such luck.

Anyway the other half is threatening divorce if I don't do something about them. They are quite active and some are finding their way down in to the house. Same as this time last year.

Is there anyway I can encourage them to up sticks and leave? Or If I waited until later in the year (do the numbers reduce?) and seal up the hole would the remaining bees die off and then I could go in through the attic again and try to do a clean up job?

Any advice greatly appreciated

Cushtie.

Hi Cushtie,

I wrote a long reply to another post here that is probably ......

[*]If the nest is not sealed up/removed straight away other bees will possibly rob all of the honey out of it...

Thanks for your very long reply. Of course the ideal situation would be to persuade them to leave. Then hopefully other bees steal the honey. Then seal it up and try to do a clean up job on the comb. What are the chances of getting them to go.

If I have to poison them will this mean the honey gets poisoned aswell and other bees would not come to steal it?

Sorry for all the questions.

brianmc

Cushtie wrote: »

Thanks for your very long reply. Of course the ideal situation would be to persuade them to leave. Then hopefully other bees steal the honey. Then seal it up and try to do a clean up job on the comb. What are the chances of getting them to go.

If I have to poison them will this mean the honey gets poisoned aswell and other bees would not come to steal it?

Sorry for all the questions.

Not at all. I think it is going to be very, very difficult to get them to just abscond, queen and all. And I think that their survival as a colony would be precarious after that anyway... There's also the risk that their new home is the other end of your roof or that of one of your neighbours.

Poisoning... I don't know much about the detail... I think poisoning and allowing other bees to rob out the honey is a bad plan (for the other bees). If you wait until early spring... the honey stores should be at their lowest. I prefer the idea of securing any entrances after poisoning.

Some poisons are designed not to have immediate effect and to be carried into the nest of the insect to affect the whole colony. Some poisons are designed to have an immediate effect on the insect on contact. I don't know what pest controllers would generally use in a situation like this.

An insecticide that acts immediately on contact would be better for other colonies in the area... if a bee were to find your source of honey it wouldn't make it back to the hive to direct others to the same source. Your honey wouldn't get robbed out though.

If the insecticide gives the bee time to return to the hive and share information about where to find this unprotected source of honey, then within hours hundreds of bees will popping over and back grabbing the honey and likely poison their whole colony.

If they are genuinely a nuisance, then, personally, the plan I would choose would be to wait until early spring and then have a chat with a pest controller about what they could use to kill off the colony. Seal up/insect proof all the entrances and hope that the honey stores aren't massive. They will of course eventually decay and evaporate.

Cushtie

QUOTE If they are genuinely a nuisance, then, personally, the plan I would choose would be to wait until early spring and then have a chat with a pest controller about what they could use to kill off the colony. Seal up/insect proof all the entrances and hope that the honey stores aren't massive. They will of course eventually decay and evaporate.QUOTE

This seems like the most reasonable plan. I suppose we are taking more notice of them with all the fine weather. They haven't come near us and we are constantly out the back garden. The missus is worried one of the kids might get stung badly if they "attacked" but there doesnt seem to be any fear of that at the minute anyway.

(sorry on phone and couldn't get the quote tags workin properly )

brianmc

Cushtie wrote: »

This seems like the most reasonable plan. I suppose we are taking more notice of them with all the fine weather. They haven't come near us and we are constantly out the back garden. The missus is worried one of the kids might get stung badly if they "attacked" but there doesnt seem to be any fear of that at the minute anyway.

With the entrance up that high out of anybody's way, even if they were a somewhat aggressive colony there is very very little risk of that.

They will however, likely issue a few swarms for a week or so in the summer that can be a bit dramatic but are actually quite safe and interesting to see.

brianmc

brianmc wrote: »

• Unless access to the nest is sealed up or the cavity that was used gets filled in, a new swarm of honeybees will be back in next year.

I know exactly a case where this happened. It was a relatively inaccessible spot and the houseowner did their best to seal up all entrances with expanding foam, but a swarm came back the following year and worked at it until they found their way back in again.



You reallly need to open up the old nest, even if it means taking off slates etc, and remove all traces of comb, and then seal it up.



By the way, most beekeepers are willing to help in such situations but do remember that they are not builders or handymen and in many situations dealing with the swarm of bees is simply too dangerous because of their location or involves work outside their expertise.

Sarah 1111

I have a similar problem - or maybe its not a problem. We also have bees in the roof of our new house and haven't tried yet to remove them. I was told to get into the attic (on a dull day when they will be less active) and if we can see the hive easily, then ring the local beekeeping association who will come and take the queen etc. If its inaccessible then we'd have to poison or demolish more of the house to get at them.
However I was also told that if we provide water then the bees will be happier and more docile? I actually don't mind if they are there - so long as they stay calm and happy - I plan to have a garden which encourages them - it is mostly other people telling me they need to go.
So, questions - are they likely to cause problems in the future? Can the hive grow very big and cause a problem in the roof?
Is it true that providing water (which I will do for the birds anyway) help to keep them happy and non aggressive.
Is it possible to provide an alternative home for them? Like a man-made hive somewhere else at the other end of the garden with a drop of lemon balm to attract them? Would they move house? Or would I just get more bees moving in?
Thanks for any opinions...

i71jskz5xu42pb

Sarah 1111 wrote: »

I was told to get into the attic (on a dull day when they will be less active) and if we can see the hive easily, then ring the local beekeeping association who will come and take the queen etc.

Yep but I'd guess it'll not be accessible, loads of better nooks in a typical house for bees. Even then the beekeeper will need to be able to find the queen.

Sarah 1111 wrote: »

If its inaccessible then we'd have to poison or demolish more of the house to get at them.

Yep

Sarah 1111 wrote: »

However I was also told that if we provide water then the bees will be happier and more docile? I actually don't mind if they are there - so long as they stay calm and happy - I plan to have a garden which encourages them - it is mostly other people telling me they need to go.

Not sure about the water thing.

But yes, I'm know an older lady who has bees in her soffit right above the small patio she uses. She loves them, no bother.

Sarah 1111 wrote: »

So, questions - are they likely to cause problems in the future? Can the hive grow very big and cause a problem in the roof?

Not sure. Biggest issue I'd see is that they'll store honey and what that might attract.

Sarah 1111 wrote: »

Is it true that providing water (which I will do for the birds anyway) help to keep them happy and non aggressive.

New one on me. In Ireland water sources are generally not an issue for bees.

Sarah 1111 wrote: »

Is it possible to provide an alternative home for them? Like a man-made hive somewhere else at the other end of the garden with a drop of lemon balm to attract them? Would they move house? Or would I just get more bees moving in?

I don't think they'd move.

Even if they did leave (or die out) they'd leave behind all the comb which would attract a new swarm eventually.

As for sealing up, they will get in the smallest spaces.

brianmc

Sarah 1111 wrote: »

I have a similar problem - or maybe its not a problem. We also have bees in the roof of our new house and haven't tried yet to remove them. I was told to get into the attic (on a dull day when they will be less active) and if we can see the hive easily, then ring the local beekeeping association who will come and take the queen etc. If its inaccessible then we'd have to poison or demolish more of the house to get at them.
However I was also told that if we provide water then the bees will be happier and more docile? I actually don't mind if they are there - so long as they stay calm and happy - I plan to have a garden which encourages them - it is mostly other people telling me they need to go.
So, questions - are they likely to cause problems in the future? Can the hive grow very big and cause a problem in the roof?
Is it true that providing water (which I will do for the birds anyway) help to keep them happy and non aggressive.
Is it possible to provide an alternative home for them? Like a man-made hive somewhere else at the other end of the garden with a drop of lemon balm to attract them? Would they move house? Or would I just get more bees moving in?
Thanks for any opinions...

Cameron Ashy Sparrow is spot on, above. I'd only add, are you sure they're honeybees? ( not meant to sound condescending... a lot of people just don't realise the differences)

If they're bumblebees or pretty much anything else they'll die off/move on in Autumn.

Sarah 1111

brianmc wrote: »

Cameron Ashy Sparrow is spot on, above. I'd only add, are you sure they're honeybees? ( not meant to sound condescending... a lot of people just don't realise the differences)

If they're bumblebees or pretty much anything else they'll die off/move on in Autumn.

Not offended, I am also amazed how many people don't know the difference between a bee and a wasp. These are definitely not bumble bees, a lot of them so not solitary bees (?), definitely not wasps. Look like honey bees to me, unless there is another sort of bee that looks very similar.

My parents have honey bees in their house and honey drips down the side of the outside wall - ours look the same. Their bees got a bit aggressive and they were told to provide water and so put a large shallow bird bath near their spot and they fly back and forth endlessly (they live near (200 yards) from a big lake too so plenty of fresh water not far away) and so far it has worked and they are all calm and quiet. Maybe coincidence and whatever was bothering them went away so they settled down??

If your parents have bees too and are located 200m away its quite likely that your new swarm came from there, or that both came from the same source (but different years).

Bees need water at certain times of the year and collect it as they need it, in summer to cool down the hive and in winter to soften the honey to use it. They get to know a source and will go back there whenever they need water.

The important thing to be aware of in setting out water is that you will be creating a flight path for bees - therefore its better not to place it where it intersects where people walk. Bees bumping into people might sting by accident and thus get the reputation for being aggressive.

Bees don't need deep water; something permanently damp (eg moss or cloth in water) or with a shallow incline is fine, though having said that they can use almost anything. Mine like an old bucket in the yard...

Bees are normally not aggressive unless disturbed. Usually they prefer to mind their own business. They can be agressive if they are changing their queen or if they are under attack by another colony (robbing) and also things like vibrating machinery (tractors, lawnmowers) annoy them.

New Home

A very similar question here.

Good/bad news. A swarm of bees has been trying to take over a disused chimney in my mother's house. There's a hole that goes through it sideways, through which a genius decided to put a gas pipe (yes, you read that right). On the inside of the house, there's vent that connects to the chimney that's used for a small extractor fan for the bathroom. It's on the ground floor, but it's still about 2.5 metres up. The rest of the chimney is hollow (nobody thought about blocking it in when the pipe was installed). So far I've blocked both side entrances with wads of cotton wool soaked in lemongrass/citronella essential oil in the hope it'll act as a repellent, and I've removed the bathroom fan, and I've ushered out through the window the hundred or so bees that swarmed out of it in instalments. I've also fed them honey 'cause they were absolutely starving. The very bad news is that two nights ago my brother heard the buzzing, assumed they were wasps (without actually checking - don't get me started!), and sprayed a lot of insecticide inside the chimney, with the result that many of the poor little bees are now dying on the ground.

For the last hour and a half, no further bees have flown out into the bathroom, but although I've used one of those pipe cameras Lidl sold a while back, I can't see properly inside the chimney to see if the queen is still in there. Meanwhile, on the outside, the swarm is getting bigger and bigger. I used to know this, but I can't actually remember - would the queen and her "subjects" swarm together, or would one follow the other?

Is there anything I can do to entice them to move along, or to remove them without harming them? How can I check if the queen is actually there?

Youve made a couple of errors here.

Firstly dont ever feed bees honey. I think you might mean shop bought honey and most sold in Ireland is imported from places like china and argentina and there is a risk it could carry bee diseases.
Bees that swarm fill up with honey first so its unlikely that they would be hungry..
Secondly lemon grass is a swarm attractant in low doses, though may repel in high doses (but high doses will eventually dissipate to low doses....).
You may have two situations; a swarm which is in the act of entering your chimney as a new home..... or many bees who are feasting on your honey..
.
The queen will be with the swarm, but there is no way that would would spot her yourself with an inspection camera. Even experienced beekeepers have problems finding queens sometimes.

The actual situation is a bit unclear and i think the best thing you can do at this stage is let things calm down and contact an experienced beekeeper in your locality who might be able to advise you. Bees can be removed, provided of course that the location they have selected is accessible, which is not always the case.

New Home

Thanks DrDonkey, this was honey I got at a local market from a local enough beekeper - I tried the phone number on the jar, but got no answer.

I put less than a teaspoon on a lid, and it's being ignored altogether, although bees would eat it off my fingers when I was trying to put them outside. Considering the swarm is now completely outside the house, would I be safe enough in thinking the queen is with them?

I'll add a picture in a sec.

New Home

grassroot1

Where are you based?

Its a swarm of honeybees alright but seems quite small, possibly a secondary swarm from a hive that has already swarmed.

If theyve been there since yesterday and still havent entered their chosen location, this suggests that either they cant access it or else that they're only waiting there, while scouts are off searching for a permanent location.