What could Brexit mean for my family?

lilmissbee88

I’m not a big political person at all, I don’t really watch the news on it or read about it.

I have a worry about this whole Brexit thing. My fiancé is English, and I’m Irish. We have a toddler together and a baby due next month. I’ve heard that the Irish government can make a decision which would mean he would have to leave Ireland and return to the UK. He has been over here 10 years. He’s currently married (to another UK national living in ireland).

We’ve been looking at prices for him to get divorced so we can get married ourselves, but it’s just not possible for a long while yet with so many other things requiring money.

Is it true that he could be asked to leave, because he’s a UK national and we’re not married? It’s a worry for me now and has been playing on my mind since I’ve heard it’s a possibility.

Inquitus

You are fine, in no version of Brexit are Europeans getting sent out of the UK, or British people being sent back to the UK. The CTA between Ireland and the UK will likely remain and people will continue to have the right to stay, live and work in both countries.

listermint

Also outside political context but

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/how-to-get-divorced-for-less-than-200-1.2070254

lilmissbee88

Inquitus wrote: »

You are fine, in no version of Brexit are Europeans getting sent out of the UK, or British people being sent back to the UK. The CTA between Ireland and the UK will likely remain and people will continue to have the right to stay, live and work in both countries.

thank you! i was told it could change but just did some googling and saw articles saying the rights are protected. thank you so much

lilmissbee88

listermint wrote: »

Also outside political context but

(couldn’t post url as a new user!)

thank you!! bedtime reading for me.. appreciate it! €200 sounds much more feasible than the €6k we’ve been quoted by some solicitors.

fritzelly

The last thing Ireland wants is for the British to have to leave and the Irish in the UK to come home - it would work out worse for Ireland

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rules_UK_citizens.html

Sleeper12

lilmissbee88 wrote:

Is it true that he could be asked to leave, because he’s a UK national and we’re not married? It’s a worry for me now and has been playing on my mind since I’ve heard it’s a possibility.

Not a chance of us asking UK citizens to leave. If they started kicking out UK citizens it could derail the whole peace process. It's bridges we need to build not tear down.

I don't know how the rest of the EU will treat the British but we have a special relationship with them. We also have free movement arrangements that stretch back decades before we joined the EU (EEC)

jimmycrackcorm

lilmissbee88 wrote:

Is it true that he could be asked to leave, because he’s a UK national and we’re not married? It’s a worry for me now and has been playing on my mind since I’ve heard it’s a possibility.

If he runs around shouting for England for the world cup then he'll be asked to leave long before Brexit...

The CTA remained in force even in the darkest of times in the troubles so it would be quite unimaginable that it would be removed. The EU couldn't even block it as it would be akin to us telling the Germans they can't import any refuges.

FreudianSlippers

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not a chance of us asking UK citizens to leave. If they started kicking out UK citizens it could derail the whole peace process. It's bridges we need to build not tear down.

I don't know how the rest of the EU will treat the British but we have a special relationship with them. We also have free movement arrangements that stretch back decades before we joined the EU (EEC)

UK citizens will undoubtedly be allowed to travel to and/or reside in Ireland without visas. UK citizens will undoubtedly be allowed to work in Ireland - I would suggest that they would need to be granted employment permits but that these would be very cheap/easy to get.

UK citizens will undoubtedly and must be required to register with the Irish authorities as to their residence in Ireland; IMHO this is vital to Ireland's continued membership of the EU and free movement. We cannot have Ireland be some leaky pipe whereby UK citizens can easily get into the EU and avail of free movement.

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

UK citizens will undoubtedly be allowed to travel to and/or reside in Ireland without visas. UK citizens will undoubtedly be allowed to work in Ireland - I would suggest that they would need to be granted employment permits but that these would be very cheap/easy to get.

UK citizens will undoubtedly and must be required to register with the Irish authorities as to their residence in Ireland; IMHO this is vital to Ireland's continued membership of the EU and free movement. We cannot have Ireland be some leaky pipe whereby UK citizens can easily get into the EU and avail of free movement.

we don't have freedom of "Movement" as such, because we are outside the Schengen zone. Anyone travelling from Ireland to the Schengen area needs to show a passport, so this isn't really necessary.

FreudianSlippers

Aegir wrote: »

we don't have freedom of "Movement" as such, because we are outside the Schengen zone. Anyone travelling from Ireland to the Schengen area needs to show a passport, so this isn't really necessary.

Freedom of movement is a basic and fundamental right of EU citizens that has nothing to do with Schengen.

Jim2007

Aegir wrote: »

we don't have freedom of "Movement" as such, because we are outside the Schengen zone. Anyone travelling from Ireland to the Schengen area needs to show a passport, so this isn't really necessary.

Schengen is about visa free travel for tourists, nothing to do with FMOP. And yes of course you have exactly the same rights as every EU citizen when it comes to FMOP.

trashcan

lilmissbee88 wrote: »

I’m not a big political person at all, I don’t really watch the news on it or read about it.

I have a worry about this whole Brexit thing. My fiancé is English, and I’m Irish. We have a toddler together and a baby due next month. I’ve heard that the Irish government can make a decision which would mean he would have to leave Ireland and return to the UK. He has been over here 10 years. He’s currently married (to another UK national living in ireland).

We’ve been looking at prices for him to get divorced so we can get married ourselves, but it’s just not possible for a long while yet with so many other things requiring money.

Is it true that he could be asked to leave, because he’s a UK national and we’re not married? It’s a worry for me now and has been playing on my mind since I’ve heard it’s a possibility.

Would agree that it's unlikely that the common travel area will be affected. There is the option of becoming an Irish citizen for him however, if you're worried. If he's been here ten years it shouldn't be a problem. You can apply with five years legal residency.

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Freedom of movement is a basic and fundamental right of EU citizens that has nothing to do with Schengen.

which is why I put movement in inverted commas, because we need to produce a passport if we cross a Schengen border. British citizens travelling from Ireland to the Schengen area will have to show their passport, but will need to join the "Non EU" queue.

The right to stay in Ireland is up to the Irish immigration authorities, not the EU and whether or not British citizens need to register their residency will make no difference whatsoever to their ability to travel to the chengen area.

Presuming the CTA remains in place, there is absolutely no reason why British citizens should need to register their residency status, being a British/Irish citizen should automatically give someone the right to live and work in the UK/Ireland.

troyzer

I don't think it would be even legally possible for CTA to fall apart. In the North of Ireland you have hundreds of thousands of Irish citizens who were born and bred there who under a recent court ruling, were never British citizens.

Unless the British government wanted to boot them out of their ancestral homes, good luck getting rid of Irish citizens from the UK at large.

FreudianSlippers

Aegir wrote: »

which is why I put movement in inverted commas, because we need to produce a passport if we cross a Schengen border. British citizens travelling from Ireland to the Schengen area will have to show their passport, but will need to join the "Non EU" queue.

Not if that country is in the EU we don't.

The right to stay in Ireland is up to the Irish immigration authorities, not the EU and whether or not British citizens need to register their residency will make no difference whatsoever to their ability to travel to the chengen area.

What? Sorry but not a lot of that makes sense....

Presuming the CTA remains in place, there is absolutely no reason why British citizens should need to register their residency status, being a British/Irish citizen should automatically give someone the right to live and work in the UK/Ireland.

No, that's not really how it works. The CTA is going to stay in place, but we will be responsible for ensuring UK citizens are correctly entered into the EU (i.e. Ireland).

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Not if that country is in the EU we don't.

huh?

if you are crossing in to or out of the Schengen area, you need to show a valid ID or a passport. seeing as in both Ireland and the UK we do not have ID cards, then we have to show our passports.

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

What? Sorry but not a lot of that makes sense....

what doesn't? it looks pretty straight forward to me. Immigration in to Ireland is based on Irish law only.

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

No, that's not really how it works. The CTA is going to stay in place, but we will be responsible for ensuring UK citizens are correctly entered into the EU (i.e. Ireland).

nope, Ireland isn't a Schengen country, so how people enter, stay and leave is entirely up to Ireland.

FreudianSlippers

Aegir wrote: »

huh?

if you are crossing in to or out of the Schengen area, you need to show a valid ID or a passport. seeing as in both Ireland and the UK we do not have ID cards, then we have to show our passports.

I think I understand what you're getting at here - it's the production of passports as opposed to the freedom itself.

Just a very odd way of saying it given free movement of persons is a fundamental cornerstone of the EU.

what doesn't? it looks pretty straight forward to me. Immigration in to Ireland is based on Irish law only.

No, it isn't. Immigration is governed by each Member State in accordance with the fundamental principles of the EU and its directives implementing various other rules.

nope, Ireland isn't a Schengen country, so how people enter, stay and leave is entirely up to Ireland.

Schengen is simply an extra bonus on top of the fundamental right of free movement which allows for border-free travel within that area. It has nothing to do with "how people enter, stay or leave" the European Union, particularly frontier Member States.

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I think I understand what you're getting at here - it's the production of passports as opposed to the freedom itself.

Just a very odd way of saying it given free movement of persons is a fundamental cornerstone of the EU.

it is a fundamental cornerstone, with some caveats. One of those being required to produce identification when crossing borders. Discretionary when inside the Schengen zone, mandatory if crossing in or out of it.

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

No, it isn't. Immigration is governed by each Member State in accordance with the fundamental principles of the EU and its directives implementing various other rules.

only when it comes to EU citizens. Countries can do more or less what they like with third country nationals.

Ireland and the UK have different Visa and immigration principles to the Schengen countries.

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Schengen is simply an extra bonus on top of the fundamental right of free movement which allows for border-free travel within that area. It has nothing to do with "how people enter, stay or leave" the European Union, particularly frontier Member States.

that is correct to a degree, but the UK and Ireland have opted out of the Schengen Visa requirements, so they can operate their own immigration requirements.

If you obtain a visa for Germany, that entitles you to travel anywhere within the Schengen zone, it does not entitle you to travel within the CTA and vice versa.

A Brazilian entering France from Ireland has the exact same restrictions as if they were entering from Brazil directly.