2008-2009 cars ridiculous prices

chops018

Ok, so I think I know that the main answer to this will be the change in tax bracket.

However, it's crazy what people are commanding for their 08-09 cars.

Since I started driving when I was 17 I have always bought a car that was around 8-10 years old, sometimes 11, and then kept it around 2-3 years. They have always been between €1,500 - €3,000.

Two and a half years ago I bought a lovely 2004 BMW - leather seats, air con, heated seats, loads of extra's. €3,000 - which at the time I thought was a bit steep but it was off a dealer, had NCT etc. so I said ok I will get it. Barely any massive problems with it in my two and half years apart from the usual's - tyres, servicing etc. However, there is a lot of little problems now that would have to be sorted for the NCT come September. So I said I would see what is out there in the 08-09 bracket. Most of them are all over €5,000! My car is probably only worth about €500.

Any other reasons for the big prices apart from the tax bracket?

I was hoping to only spend about €3,000 max and get an 08. At this stage I will probably go to 07, but some of them are still expensive too. I would be looking at another BMW so probably they are always a bit more expensive. I suppose no recession anymore and even two and a half years ago when I was last buying the country wasn't where it is now.

Any thoughts? Surely they can't keep commanding high figures for the 08-09 cars. A few years ago a 10 year old car would not have been fetching over €5,000. Or am I wrong?

Mooooo

Simple enough, the price will average out at what people are willing to pay,

Dravokivich

Demand is higher for cars within 10 years, mainly due to the way insurance companies are pushing that insurance will be more expensive with an older car.

Older cars tend to have considerable drop in price when compared to them. All that separates them is the year. A 2005 e90 from a design perspective has little different to a 2009 e90. But sure... (I know from a second hand market perspective, milage and age plays a part in the price, it should make little odds with insurance when it's the driver being insured against the vehicle)

bazz26

Cars have grown in both size and price over the years. They are also better equipped so just because you could buy a 10 year old car for x amount a few years back doesn't mean you can buy a 10 year old car now for similar money.

The motor tax system and fuel type also play a part, you can either pay more for a car with cheap tax or pay less for one with higher tax. 10 years ago diesel sales really lifted off because they fell into lower VRT and motor tax brackets and they are still in demand on the second hand market today.

kermitpwee

chops018 wrote: »

Ok, so I think I know that the main answer to this will be the change in tax bracket.

However, it's crazy what people are commanding for their 08-09 cars.



Two and a half years ago I bought a lovely 2004 BMW - leather seats, air con, heated seats, loads of extra's. €3000

Any other reasons for the big prices apart from the tax bracket?

I was hoping to only spend about €3,000 max and get an 08.

Any thoughts? Surely they can't keep commanding high figures for the 08-09 cars. A few years ago a 10 year old car would not have been fetching over €5,000. Or am I wrong?

Well you paid 3000 for a 12 year old car 2.5 years ago. So how do you expect to get a 9-10 year old car for that money now? Why don't you look at 12 year old cars again?

chops018

kermitpwee wrote: »

Well you paid 3000 for a 12 year old car 2.5 years ago. So how do you expect to get a 9-10 year old car for that money now? Why don't you look at 12 year old cars again?

It was from a dealer, with a warranty and NCT. Liked the car and had a load of extra's. I did say that I thought at the time that it was steep. But I didn't think it was crazy money, and also it turned out to be a decent car too and didn't give me trouble. So retrospectively it wasn't a bad purchase. Although I know that it could have turned out differently.

Anyway, as you said in your post, I will either have to look at 12 year old cars again if I want to stay under €3,000 or else just up my budget to €5,000 to €6,000 if I want an 08 or 09 car.

kermitpwee

chops018 wrote: »

It was from a dealer, with a warranty and NCT. Liked the car and had a load of extra's. I did say that I thought at the time that it was steep. But I didn't think it was crazy money, and also it turned out to be a decent car too and didn't give me trouble. So retrospectively it wasn't a bad purchase. Although I know that it could have turned out differently.

Anyway, as you said in your post, I will either have to look at 12 year old cars again if I want to stay under €3,000 or else just up my budget to €5,000 to €6,000 if I want an 08 or 09 car.

Well if you want to stay with a Bmw you may need to look at older cars alright. I do understand where your coming from and not having a pot shot at you. Perhaps you could get another 2-3 years out of your current car with the 2-3k you would spend on a newer one.

blastman

I bought an 08 car a month ago for less than three grand. However, it is early 08 so the old tax system applies and it is expensive to tax as it has a large engine (to the Irish mentality). For the money, I got a big, comfortable, quick car with plenty of toys. OK, it will cost me a few hundred extra in tax a year, but I'd have to keep it a very long time to make up the extra premium I'd pay to get a car only 6-12 months newer. It can be done on your budget, OP, keep looking.

chops018

kermitpwee wrote: »

Well if you want to stay with a Bmw you may need to look at older cars alright. I do understand where your coming from and not having a pot shot at you. Perhaps you could get another 2-3 years out of your current car with the 2-3k you would spend on a newer one.

I'd happily go 07 to stay with BMW's. To be fair, I've seen a few sub €3,000 BMW's from 2007 but they don't look in the best condition!

No, you're grand, I know you weren't having a go. I do understand your point also and glad to get the comments. I am more ranting about the current market for cars over 08. I suppose it's certainly not the same as 5 years ago when 10 year old cars weren't commanding as much as they are now. There seems to be a lot of different factors at play.

Yes, I do plan to put mine through the NCT and see what has to be done on it. If it's too much then I will be looking for another car. I would have preferred an 08-09 but more than likely it will be an 07. I can't see it getting through the NCT without a decent bit of work. Then as posters above said, things like insurance etc. begin to go up a bit as the car gets older.

ba_barabus

There is a lack of choice of 08-10 reg cars due to the recession is one issue, along with the tax changes and a general increase in the price of cars. When you bought your BMW you probably bought something that to most people was undesirable at the time, an aging petrol on the old tax system.

Just repeat the trick and remember what you are looking at I'm ads is asking prices not selling prices.

lawred2

chops018 wrote: »

Ok, so I think I know that the main answer to this will be the change in tax bracket.

However, it's crazy what people are commanding for their 08-09 cars.

Since I started driving when I was 17 I have always bought a car that was around 8-10 years old, sometimes 11, and then kept it around 2-3 years. They have always been between €1,500 - €3,000.

Two and a half years ago I bought a lovely 2004 BMW - leather seats, air con, heated seats, loads of extra's. €3,000 - which at the time I thought was a bit steep but it was off a dealer, had NCT etc. so I said ok I will get it. Barely any massive problems with it in my two and half years apart from the usual's - tyres, servicing etc. However, there is a lot of little problems now that would have to be sorted for the NCT come September. So I said I would see what is out there in the 08-09 bracket. Most of them are all over €5,000! My car is probably only worth about €500.

Any other reasons for the big prices apart from the tax bracket?

I was hoping to only spend about €3,000 max and get an 08. At this stage I will probably go to 07, but some of them are still expensive too. I would be looking at another BMW so probably they are always a bit more expensive. I suppose no recession anymore and even two and a half years ago when I was last buying the country wasn't where it is now.

Any thoughts? Surely they can't keep commanding high figures for the 08-09 cars. A few years ago a 10 year old car would not have been fetching over €5,000. Or am I wrong?

that not when the tax regime changed?

ba_barabus

A quick search reveals lots of choice. I like this one myself https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/passed-nct-today-4-19-2008-lexus-is-250automatic/19199079

Alanstrainor

lawred2 wrote: »

that not when the tax regime changed?

It is, but to be honest I'd have to agree with the OP on this one. I look every once in a while, and prices seem high for 2008ish cars. Perhaps it is simply a supply issue, which would make a lot of sense, but I would have thought demand for cars in the second hand market is quite low, and especially those that are 10 years old considering how insurance companies treat older motors.

ba_barabus is correct as well, hard to know what these are actually selling at.

chops018

ba_barabus wrote: »

There is a lack of choice of 08-10 reg cars due to the recession is one issue, along with the tax changes and a general increase in the price of cars. When you bought your BMW you probably bought something that to most people was undesirable at the time, an aging petrol on the old tax system.

Just repeat the trick and remember what you are looking at I'm ads is asking prices not selling prices.

The oul banger BMW I have is actually diesel. So I was surprised that it gave me such little problems.

Yeah, I have heard from others that "that's what they're looking for but are they getting it" in relation to the ad's up on donedeal.

lawred2 wrote: »

that not when the tax regime changed?

It is indeed. But I did not think it would still have had this much of an effect on keeping the prices high.

ba_barabus wrote: »

A quick search reveals lots of choice. I like this one myself https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/passed-nct-today-4-19-2008-lexus-is-250automatic/19199079

Cheers for that. Looking to stick with BMW's though as I really like them personally.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

It is, but to be honest I'd have to agree with the OP on this one. I look every once in a while, and prices seem high for 2008ish cars. Perhaps it is simply a supply issue, which would make a lot of sense, but I would have thought demand for cars in the second hand market is quite low, and especially those that are 10 years old considering how insurance companies treat older motors.

ba_barabus is correct as well, hard to know what these are actually selling at.

Yeah, it is one to think about. They are advertising high but surely people in the market for a 10 year old car have the same mind frame as me in that they think €5,000 or more for an 08 car is too much.

ba_barabus

chops018 wrote: »

Yeah, it is one to think about. They are advertising high but surely people in the market for a 10 year old car have the same mind frame as me in that they think €5,000 or more for an 08 car is too much.

Due to a combination of the effects of the tax changes, insurance, poor choice and buyers blinded by diesel you have a perfect storm for demand for 10 year old cars. If it's diesel, low tax and ten years old it's what a large amount of the market want. Most won't even consider an 07 even if it's in better condition and half the price.

I looked for a diesel bmw up to 3500 between 08 and 2010. You're right, they're all shyte.

Go back one year to 2007 and there's some lovely looking cars to choose from.

chops018

ba_barabus wrote: »

Due to a combination of the effects of the tax changes, insurance, poor choice and buyers blinded by diesel you have a perfect storm for demand for 10 year old cars. If it's diesel, low tax and ten years old it's what a large amount of the market want. Most won't even consider an 07 even if it's in better condition and half the price.

I looked for a diesel bmw up to 3500 between 08 and 2010. You're right, they're all shyte.

Go back one year to 2007 and there's some lovely looking cars to choose from.

Cheers. Yes, I think come September I will be looking for a 2007 BMW. Much better value, and the higher tax doesn't bother me too much, especially as I only keep a car 2-3 years. Don't understand people mad to get an 08 car just for the tax and end up paying nearly double than what an 06 or 07 would be. Unless they plan to keep it years but usually a 10 year old car you'd only get around 3 years out of them and move on.

KFed

The 07 to 08 tax change and fuel change is a huge factor.

Remember the old tax may be 700/year instead of 270/year. Not a vast difference. But when that was v.r.t. you were paying a 2007 e92 m sport might have been 60k new instead of 50k new at the time.

So, 2007 cars may be lower specced than the 2008 car to have made it more affordable to buy.

Also, at that end of the market, 10y old, the condition of what you're selling, service history makes a vast difference.

I have a 2008 320d with 60k miles that's got full service history with receipts etc. Last two services were 4k kf work done. If I was selling, why should I just let it go for 3k since its ten years old. Mechanically, and cosmetically, it's way better than many newer cars.

Depends what you're looking for. A car with 300k that has no history, no n.c.t and a few gremlins you probably won't give it away. A low mileage, well minded example, of what was an expensive car to begin with will always command money.

Plus, how many if that model sold?
A rare desirable car at sub ten k is affordable, diesels also cheap to run due fuel and tax costs.

A ten year old mass market generic focus or whatever, not dear new, going to be worth little at that age and again, condition a major determinant of value too

kermitpwee

KFed wrote: »

The 07 to 08 tax change and fuel change is a huge factor.

Remember the old tax may be 700/year instead of 270/year. Not a vast difference. But when that was v.r.t. you were paying a 2007 e92 m sport might have been 60k new instead of 50k new at the time.

So, 2007 cars may be lower specced than the 2008 car to have made it more affordable to buy.

Also, at that end of the market, 10y old, the condition of what you're selling, service history makes a vast difference.

I have a 2008 320d with 60k miles that's got full service history with receipts etc. Last two services were 4k kf work done. If I was selling, why should I just let it go for 3k since its ten years old. Mechanically, and cosmetically, it's way better than many newer cars.

Depends what you're looking for. A car with 300k that has no history, no n.c.t and a few gremlins you probably won't give it away. A low mileage, well minded example, of what was an expensive car to begin with will always command money.

Plus, how many if that model sold?
A rare desirable car at sub ten k is affordable, diesels also cheap to run due fuel and tax costs.

A ten year old mass market generic focus or whatever, not dear new, going to be worth little at that age and again, condition a major determinant of value too

Some interesting points there. I would worry for people that think a 10 yr old 320d is a desirable car tbh. I reckon you would find it very hard to shift @ 5k. Who is going to buy it??
Nobody with a reasonable income is going to buy a 10 yr old diesel BMW, they will buy something newer.
You are left with people on a budget that want to pay feck all regardless of service history. People looking for a banger or young people that can't see the value in a 08 320d with 60k on it or people that have read about timing chain problems despite s/h.
Just my 2 cent.

DaveyDave

My sister was looking at cars to replace her Punto a few months ago so I've seen a number of listings. For €5,000-6,000 I thought you'd get something decent. I was wrong.

Subcompacts such as the i20, Polo, Ibiza, Fiesta etc everything is 10+ years old, well over 120,000km on them and cosmetically worse for wear. I would have thought they'd be a lot cheaper with the state they're in considering they're only about €15k new.

I'm not looking forward to looking for a car for the GF when she starts driving.

Heres Johnny

kermitpwee wrote: »

KFed wrote: »

The 07 to 08 tax change and fuel change is a huge factor.

Remember the old tax may be 700/year instead of 270/year. Not a vast difference. But when that was v.r.t. you were paying a 2007 e92 m sport might have been 60k new instead of 50k new at the time.

So, 2007 cars may be lower specced than the 2008 car to have made it more affordable to buy.

Also, at that end of the market, 10y old, the condition of what you're selling, service history makes a vast difference.

I have a 2008 320d with 60k miles that's got full service history with receipts etc. Last two services were 4k kf work done. If I was selling, why should I just let it go for 3k since its ten years old. Mechanically, and cosmetically, it's way better than many newer cars.

Depends what you're looking for. A car with 300k that has no history, no n.c.t and a few gremlins you probably won't give it away. A low mileage, well minded example, of what was an expensive car to begin with will always command money.

Plus, how many if that model sold?
A rare desirable car at sub ten k is affordable, diesels also cheap to run due fuel and tax costs.

A ten year old mass market generic focus or whatever, not dear new, going to be worth little at that age and again, condition a major determinant of value too

Some interesting points there. I would worry for people that think a 10 yr old 320d is a desirable car tbh. I reckon you would find it very hard to shift @ 5k. Who is going to buy it??
Nobody with a reasonable income is going to buy a 10 yr old diesel BMW, they will buy something newer.
You are left with people on a budget that want to pay feck all regardless of service history. People looking for a banger or young people that can't see the value in a 08 320d with 60k on it or people that have read about timing chain problems despite s/h.
Just my 2 cent.

I have a more than reasonable income and 2 years ago bought a 2006 e60 523i msport petrol. I've always just bought on condition and price rather than reg plate. It's still nicer than most newer cars out there. Just have an aversion to taking out loans to be honest, just buy in cash. But I will admit that in the main, you are right, most will gravitate towards newer cars on finance.

To the OP, I bought the car above when it was 10 years old from a dealer. It's a smooth 6 cylinder automatic engine but it comes with a thirst for petrol compared to other cars and the govt impose a 1080 annual tax on it. I wanted it but the dealer knew not many others would so I got it for a great price.
If I went to buy an 08 now, which I'm considering a 530d but most will go for a 520d, I would be buying a car with much better consumption and lower tax which more people want and hence higher asking prices.
However don't get carried away with the higher asking prices. Supply exceeds demand on these cars and you'll still get a great deal on a good one if you look hard enough. They are not flying off forecourts.

colm_mcm

blastman wrote: »

I bought an 08 car a month ago for less than three grand. However, it is early 08 so the old tax system applies and it is expensive to tax as it has a large engine (to the Irish mentality). For the money, I got a big, comfortable, quick car with plenty of toys. OK, it will cost me a few hundred extra in tax a year, but I'd have to keep it a very long time to make up the extra premium I'd pay to get a car only 6-12 months newer. It can be done on your budget, OP, keep looking.

It’s also high emissions if it’s cheaper on the cc rates (it automatically goes on the cheaper of the two rates)

KFed

kermitpwee wrote: »

Some interesting points there. I would worry for people that think a 10 yr old 320d is a desirable car tbh. I reckon you would find it very hard to shift @ 5k. Who is going to buy it??
Nobody with a reasonable income is going to buy a 10 yr old diesel BMW, they will buy something newer.
You are left with people on a budget that want to pay feck all regardless of service history. People looking for a banger or young people that can't see the value in a 08 320d with 60k on it or people that have read about timing chain problems despite s/h.
Just my 2 cent.

I disagree that nobody with a reasonable income would buy a 10yo diesel bmw. Horses for courses. I reckon an 08 bmw e92 m sport with a low mileage, mechanically well looked after is a desirable car, to some. Everyone has a budget in life.

If say, your budget is 10k and you fancy a quick but also economical coupe, with low tax, you basically have Audi a5, bmw 1 and 3 coupe and a few breras in that budget. Including Megane coupes, not quite same class of car, like I say look what these cars cost new, and arbitrarily going sub 100k miles, there are 42 cars on carzone. Condition basically, and spec then, drives the value.

For example, four new tyres on mine were 700 last change. If the car is just taxed, there's 1k of value in tyres and tax alone. An m sport is worth more than a non m sport. Low mileage worth slightly more again. Service history worth slightly more.

Double the budget, to 10-20k and there's a single 4 series in budget (141 incidentally, asking 19,995) and a single 6 series (sold incidentally).
And this is my point.

In the second hand market, supply of cars, of some models, at a given price point, for a given type, can be thin. Demand for some models, at that price point, is likely thin also.

Markets clear, so if i ask say 10k for my yoke, and I want to sell, then I drop it by a grand, then another, and another, after a while then another, until it does sell. Asking price dont tell the story but a decent starting point.

People have other considerations also. If you're saving for a house, but want/need a car, you may not want p.c.p., so rather than putting say 8k down and signing up to monthlies (severely curtailing your mortgage loan offer) you might buy a car outright for 8k.

Again in that scenario, and even with a very reasonable income, you might prefer buying outright versus signing up to monthlies...

kermitpwee

KFed wrote: »

I disagree that nobody with a reasonable income would buy a 10yo diesel bmw. Horses for courses. I reckon an 08 bmw e92 m sport with a low mileage, mechanically well looked after is a desirable car, to some. Everyone has a budget in life.

If say, your budget is 10k and you fancy a quick but also economical coupe, with low tax, you basically have Audi a5, bmw 1 and 3 coupe and a few breras in that budget. Including Megane coupes, not quite same class of car, like I say look what these cars cost new, and arbitrarily going sub 100k miles, there are 42 cars on carzone. Condition basically, and spec then, drives the value.

For example, four new tyres on mine were 700 last change. If the car is just taxed, there's 1k of value in tyres and tax alone. An m sport is worth more than a non m sport. Low mileage worth slightly more again. Service history worth slightly more.

Double the budget, to 10-20k and there's a single 4 series in budget (141 incidentally, asking 19,995) and a single 6 series (sold incidentally).
And this is my point.

In the second hand market, supply of cars, of some models, at a given price point, for a given type, can be thin. Demand for some models, at that price point, is likely thin also.

Markets clear, so if i ask say 10k for my yoke, and I want to sell, then I drop it by a grand, then another, and another, after a while then another, until it does sell. Asking price dont tell the story but a decent starting point.

People have other considerations also. If you're saving for a house, but want/need a car, you may not want p.c.p., so rather than putting say 8k down and signing up to monthlies (severely curtailing your mortgage loan offer) you might buy a car outright for 8k.

Again in that scenario, and even with a very reasonable income, you might prefer buying outright versus signing up to monthlies...

Well let's see how much that 3 series will sell for. I don't think that person will sell as they are happy with the car, and so they should be. The car has 60k FSH etc.
My point was that they said there car is a rare desirable car.
I don't think it's desirable at all. I think there is a market for 10 year old BMW 5 series yes. 3 series i cant see it tbh.
But hey does it really matter.

KFed

kermitpwee wrote: »

I don't think it's desirable at all. I think there is a market for 10 year old BMW 5 series yes. 3 series i cant see it tbh.
But hey does it really matter.

There's a market for everything. I reckon 3 series coupe holds value better than 3 saloon and 5 saloon at that vintage. I reckon buyers for 3 coupe maybe have a golf g.t.i. as an alternative, probably young male buyers, sub 10k budget but want a bit of power, handling and looks. 3 coupe not a bad package for that segment if the market.

O.p. was surprised 10yo cars are making over five k full stop. I made the point that mass market 25-30k new cars (focus, golf, Astra) probably aren't. But rarer cars might be. Simple reason being a scarcity of supply inherently makes an asking price sticky downwards.

If a buyer wants a sub 10k 6 series, and so few sell here, then any half decent six series that pops up will command a premium. There's literally no direct alternative in that budget.

What is desirable is in the eye of the beholder. It's a bit disingenuous to say there's no market for ten year old three series diesels. No one with a reasonable income would want one etc etc

kermitpwee

KFed wrote: »

There's a market for everything. I reckon 3 series coupe holds value better than 3 saloon and 5 saloon at that vintage. I reckon buyers for 3 coupe maybe have a golf g.t.i. as an alternative, probably young male buyers, sub 10k budget but want a bit of power, handling and looks. 3 coupe not a bad package for that segment if the market.

O.p. was surprised 10yo cars are making over five k full stop. I made the point that mass market 25-30k new cars (focus, golf, Astra) probably aren't. But rarer cars might be. Simple reason being a scarcity of supply inherently makes an asking price sticky downwards.

If a buyer wants a sub 10k 6 series, and so few sell here, then any half decent six series that pops up will command a premium. There's literally no direct alternative in that budget.

What is desirable is in the eye of the beholder. It's a bit disingenuous to say there's no market for ten year old three series diesels. No one with a reasonable income would want one etc etc

Look I'm sure your 3 series is a lovely car. I don't want to take away from the pleasure you get from your car.
There is indeed a market for everything if the price is correct.
To be fair I forgot about the 3 series coupe and yes they do command a premium.
A saloon i cant see it making 5k or more in the 3 series.
Yes the coupe is a lot more desirable. And yes if yours is a coupe with 60k you could do well perhaps.
Supply for me is not as important as demand.
Yours is a coupe let's say. Then that rules out people with kids
Your left with a younger base that can't afford it.
An older person that won't buy an old BMW diesel with a precarious timing chain.
Your market for me is the rest. A single person or a person that doesn't have kids.
Perhaps an enthusiast, yes this would be your best bet. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and none more so than the enthusiast.
You only need one person to give you 7-10k and that's what the car is worth. Just one. And yes a coupe with FSH @60k msport could be very nice.
Enjoy your car mate, i think in my old age I'm getting to clinical and cynical. If you do sell it hope you get a packet for it. Always a blessing to have a car you enjoy.