Mosaic tiles coming off shower floor in wet room

Some_randomer

Hi - I have a wet room shower with mosaic tiles that seemed like a good idea a few years ago, not so sure now. Some of the tiles and sealant have come off and now there's a leak into the downstairs area.

Looking at the pics can anyone recommend the best solution - should I replace all the mosaic tiles with bigger ones? Is there a better way to fix it?

Can anyone recommend a tiler in Dublin 9?

Thanks in advance.

Calahonda52

1: edit the post title to say shower floor in a wet room:)
2: was the floor and walls tanked with FG or similar before it was done?
3: my guess is you need to consider stripping the whole floor out and have a good look see.

Some_randomer

Calahonda52 wrote: »

1: edit the post title to say shower floor in a wet room:)
2: was the floor and walls tanked with FG or similar before it was done?
3: my guess is you need to consider stripping the whole floor out and have a good look see.

As far as I know the floor was tanked, some kind of liquid rubber stuff from what I remember

listermint

If the floor was Timber and it was upstairs then a wet room is positively asking for trouble.

Doesnt matter if you tank it the floor will flex and inevitably move. These are a terrible idea upstairs in a timber floored home. Id pull it out and put in a relatively flush shower basin. There are nice large ones available now.

The risk is greatly minimised for leaks. But they can still be there at typical joints where it meets the wall ties.

jimbev

Doesnt matter if you tank it the floor will flex and inevitably move. These are a terrible idea upstairs in a timber floored home. Id pull it out and put in a relatively flush shower basin. There are nice large ones available now


I'd 2nd this and save yourself a lot of heartache

Lex Luthor

I have to agree
There is another post about this I put up a few years ago with same problem
Wet floors upstairs are just not going to work as inevitably the tiles will move
We stripped all the tiles out, got a tiler in, he tried to fix it up and re-do it. Within 2 months it was back to square one
Our only solution was to replace the tiled floor with a low profile shower tray
Why I didn't do it in the first place I'll never know, but its much better
No chance of leaks, light reflects a lot more out off it, just all round better

Don't make the mistake now of trying to re-do it, it will be trouble again
We got one of these
https://www.sonasbathrooms.com/en/shower-enclosures-trays/shower-trays/slimline-shower-trays/kristal-low-profile-900-square-shower-tray.html

Price wise it is a lot cheaper than I was expecting and they come with the free waste

Some_randomer

@Lex thanks for the update. Gonna go with the tray option it's the best job from what I'm reading but that leaves me with another couple of issues.

The width of the wall to the window is only 670 mm (see pic) so best solution seems to be a long narrow tray eg 700 x 1000 and screen along the right hand side. Not sure though if this would require moving the sink as going 1000 mm that direction leaves the space pretty narrow and would mean squeezing in past the sink.

If anyone has any thoughts on the best solution for tray / screen given the measurements shown I'm all ears

Dr_Colossus

Before you go ripping out the whole bathroom are you sure the leak is a result of the tiles lifting around by the drain? I presume if there was no leak you'd just refix the tiles and grout.
What sort of subfloor have you under the tiles. As in what sets the slope for water run off and what sort of pan is under that and how's it connected to the drain. Tiles are really only the final barrier rather than what waterproofs the shower so even with missing tiles you shouldn't have leaks.

In terms of your existing layout and installing a shower tray you could match your existing shower floor space with a 700x800 tray and screen that off with a corner door.
You could also install a larger tray something like 800x1000 or longer and take the window into the shower area depending on what additional space you have on the window side and where the toilet is positioned.

For reference I'm doing the opposite, ripping out a shower tray (that caused a lot of damage under previous owners due to leaks around it's perimeter) and building a wet room style shower to better incorporate the space available.

Calahonda52

I don't agree with all this negativity about the wet room up stairs.

Its a problem when done by folk who are not skilled in doing it/not using the right materials/cut corners

I use a crowd who g/tee their work

Some_randomer

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Before you go ripping out the whole bathroom are you sure the leak is a result of the tiles lifting around by the drain?

I'm pretty sure it is as the leak started recently and the mosaics also started popping off, even though there were a few that came off a good while ago. From what I remember underneath the tiles was ply on top of the joists.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Its a problem when done by folk who are not skilled in doing it/not using the right materials/cut corners

I use a crowd who g/tee their work

Would you mind pm'ing me their details?

listermint

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I don't agree with all this negativity about the wet room up stairs.

Its a problem when done by folk who are not skilled in doing it/not using the right materials/cut corners

I use a crowd who g/tee their work

That's not quite accurate.

My cousin fitted is own. He is incredibly skilled and very particular. He fits professional projects as across Dublin including bars and hotels.

His gave way in about 3 years , the floor moved slightly just enough to stress corners which tanking is not designed to handle.

It's quite simple not a good solution for upstairs in timber floored rooms.

At some point it will fail and it will cost it's not worth the risk over a tray. Why bother ....

Dr_Colossus

Some_randomer wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it is as the leak started recently and the mosaics also started popping off, even though there were a few that came off a good while ago. From what I remember underneath the tiles was ply on top of the joists.

I don't understand your set up. The ply on top of the joists is just the subfloor but over that there has to be either a presloped former which the drain is part of or else a fabricated in situe concrete base with a heavy duty pvc pan liner.

listermint wrote: »

That's not quite accurate.

My cousin fitted is own. He is incredibly skilled and very particular. He fits professional projects as across Dublin including bars and hotels.

His gave way in about 3 years , the floor moved slightly just enough to stress corners which tanking is not designed to handle.

It's quite simple not a good solution for upstairs in timber floored rooms.

At some point it will fail and it will cost it's not worth the risk over a tray. Why bother ....

Shower trays have risks also as I've discovered but in my case it was mostly down to poor workmanship by the tiler employed by the previous owners. A modern looking ensuite with expensive porcelain tiles all had to be scrapped and everything taken back to the studs and joists due to leaks that had probably lasted a year or more.

Wetrooms have been built in timber framed houses in America for decades and once built correctly there's no reason why they shouldn't last decades longer.

Calahonda52

listermint wrote: »

That's not quite accurate.

My cousin fitted is own. He is incredibly skilled and very particular. He fits professional projects as across Dublin including bars and hotels.

His gave way in about 3 years , the floor moved slightly just enough to stress corners which tanking is not designed to handle.

It's quite simple not a good solution for upstairs in timber floored rooms.

At some point it will fail and it will cost it's not worth the risk over a tray. Why bother ....

Which bit exactly is NOT accurate?
Your cousin may well have all the attributes you have crowned him with, but if his area of expertise is not in wet rooms, then they are moot.

I am very particular and very skilled, but not for wet rooms

listermint

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

I don't understand your set up. The ply on top of the joists is just the subfloor but over that there has to be either a presloped former which the drain is part of or else a fabricated in situe concrete base with a heavy duty pvc pan liner.



Shower trays have risks also as I've discovered but in my case it was mostly down to poor workmanship by the tiler employed by the previous owners. A modern looking ensuite with expensive porcelain tiles all had to be scrapped and everything taken back to the studs and joists due to leaks that had probably lasted a year or more.

Wetrooms have been built in timber framed houses in America for decades and once built correctly there's no reason why they shouldn't last decades longer.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Which bit exactly is NOT accurate?
Your cousin may well have all the attributes you have crowned him with, but if his area of expertise is not in wet rooms, then they are moot.

I am very particular and very skilled, but not for wet rooms

Right so, il leave you lads in the infinite wisdom of wet room showers on upper floors in Irish homes.

I dont know a single person that has had a single good experience with one. Not one.


But sure look go ahead.

Salthillprom

listermint wrote: »

Right so, il leave you lads in the infinite wisdom of wet room showers on upper floors in Irish homes.

I dont know a single person that has had a single good experience with one. Not one.


But sure look go ahead.

If they are done properly and sealed properly then surely there shouldn’t be an issue? If a tray is installed and there’s no sealant around the waste outlet and at the joint between the tray and the tiles, won’t you come across similar problems? I’ve just put in a wet room into a bathroom in our house, which is a really old period house with timber joists. I really ensured that there’s great sealing between the tiles, floor etc. I don’t envisage any problems. There’ll only be issues with shoddy workmanship.

Lumen

What happened to that lad who wanted to pour concrete on to his upstairs timber floors? That'd fix it, one way or another. :pac:

listermint

Salthillprom wrote: »

If they are done properly and sealed properly then surely there shouldn’t be an issue? If a tray is installed and there’s no sealant around the waste outlet and at the joint between the tray and the tiles, won’t you come across similar problems? I’ve just put in a wet room into a bathroom in our house, which is a really old period house with timber joists. I really ensured that there’s great sealing between the tiles, floor etc. I don’t envisage any problems. There’ll only be issues with shoddy workmanship.

Who doesn't put sealant around he edge or joints of a tray ?

Who ?

If they did that then they have no business being near tools.

Does your timber floor defy it's natural properties of spring ? If not then come back to the thread in a few years. The only only way of limiting your chances of this happening would be to lift the floor bolster all surrounding floor joists and then use 18mm ply as a base. Otherwise you will get flex and spring. The tanking is not designed to cater for flex and spring.

I'll take it then you lifted the floor and bolstered all the joists then ? Since the work was t shoddy ?

listermint

Lumen wrote: »

What happened to that lad who wanted to pour concrete on to his upstairs timber floors? That'd fix it, one way or another. :pac:

Moved to a bungalow

Lex Luthor

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I don't agree with all this negativity about the wet room up stairs.

Its a problem when done by folk who are not skilled in doing it/not using the right materials/cut corners

I use a crowd who g/tee their work

first tradesman I used was high quality
even the 2nd person who came back to try to fix it said he could see nothing wrong and it was a high quality job
Former, tanking the lot
They're just not designed for upstairs

Some_randomer

Just getting back to this now. I spoke to 4 different tilers and I got quotes from 100 up to 3K to fix it. I think everyone is agreed that the best solution is to rip up the floor and replace it with a tray. I'm still left with a couple of problems though. The first one is that the back wall where the shower is mounted is only 670 mm wide, which means I'll have to stud out the window reveal and widen the wall (to either 700 or 800) to allow a screen to be attached (to the right of the shower as you look at the pics).

Secondly where the sink is located is also a bit of a problem because when a person stands at the sink the shower tray will be somewhere around their feet depending on the size of the tray. So I either go with a short tray (maybe 700 x 1000) which risks water splashing out over the end as it's not long enough, or I get a longer one maybe 700 * 1700 that will go under the sink to the other wall, but I don't know how this will look or if there'll be a step in the way when standing at the sink.

I found these trays from RT Large - they're low profile so I'm wondering if they'll do the trick. Has anyone managed to get one of these flush with a floor tile i.e. without leaving a step?

http://rtlarge.ie/product/slimtray/
http://rtlarge.ie/product/walk-in-shower-trays/

Anyone have any more thoughts on the layout / tray size, etc? I attached another pic to give a better idea of the space.

(Apologies for the long post but I didn't have time to write a short one )

Some_randomer

So I've put this on the long finger but really need to get it done soon. I spoke to different tilers and had one lined up but he let me down a couple of times. I bought tiles for the walls and floor and all the materials.. I decided to go with an 800 * 1200 slate tray, and am planning to put it length ways along the back wall under the window (see yellow outline in attached pic). Does this make sense?

What's the correct way to do the job? Whoever I get I want to make sure they're competent, so better I know what needs to be done rather than hoping they do a good job.

So I'm thinking:

- remove all existing wall and floor tiles
- treat the floorboards if necessary
- lay marine ply and tank the floor and walls (not sure if there's already marine ply there)
- fit the slate tray then tile floor and walls

Does this sound right? Some questions:

- do I need to insulate / plasterboard the walls before tiling them?
- I read somewhere that bathroom walls should be fiber-glassed, what does this mean and is it necessary?
- anything else that I'm missing?


Tia

Ted Plain

I was looking into getting a wetroom-type deal in our ensuite, but it just wasn't quite big enough for it to be worthwhile.

Fibreglassing is the way to go, from what I was told, and this guy was recommended to me.

Some_randomer

Hi thanks, looks like that would be expensive though and also seems like he just does roofs.