Manager wants me gone

Einstrahlung50

Hi,

I started my current job 10 months ago, a couple of weeks ago my manager told me he isn't happy with my performance. Today he called me in for another meeting and said this would likely go down the formal route soon with HR. He said he doesn't think I'm suited for the job. It's a managerial position, and says I'm not seen as a manager in the team abd there have been complaints about my performance.

So two weeks ago he gave me my goals for the year which I should try to accomplish, (should have been done in January). Now I think he has made up his mind he doesn't me. I told him that I would probably start looking for another job elsewhere of I'm no wanted.

I'd just like to get some advice from anyone who has exeprience with this type of thing in work.

I'm emplyed in Dublin by the way for a large financial services company.

eigrod

You haven't told us what you want ? If you are unhappy there and feel you'd be better off elsewhere, then resign would be your best option (better than having a dismissal on your record).

If you like it there and are prepared to fight for your right to be retained, then you should do so. If you got no formal warnings about your performance until 10 months in to the job and your manager jumps straight to initiating dismissal proceedings, then you have a lot of rights on your side.

myshirt

Are you new to management?

amcalester

eigrod wrote: »

You haven't told us what you want ? If you are unhappy there and feel you'd be better off elsewhere, then resign would be your best option (better than having a dismissal on your record).

If you like it there and are prepared to fight for your right to be retained, then you should do so. If you got no formal warnings about your performance until 10 months in to the job and your manager jumps straight to initiating dismissal proceedings, then you have a lot of rights on your side.

There less than 12 months so the OP has very few rights and can be terminated in the first 12 months easily enough.

eigrod

amcalester wrote: »

There less than 12 months so the OP has very few rights and can be terminated in the first 12 months easily enough.

Only partly true. Everyone has a right to fair procedures, be it within the 1st year of employment, or after and compensation is often awarded in the WRC where fair procedures weren't followed (but re-instatement is unlikely).

Einstrahlung50

myshirt wrote: »

Are you new to management?

I was a manager for nearly two years in my last job, but probably notionally more than anything else.

Einstrahlung50

eigrod wrote: »

You haven't told us what you want ? If you are unhappy there and feel you'd be better off elsewhere, then resign would be your best option (better than having a dismissal on your record).

If you like it there and are prepared to fight for your right to be retained, then you should do so. If you got no formal warnings about your performance until 10 months in to the job and your manager jumps straight to initiating dismissal proceedings, then you have a lot of rights on your side.

I like the job so would ideally like to stay. But the damage might be done if my manager's mind is made up.

By the way I would have thought I wouldn't have been made permanent if there were issues, so wasn't aware my performance was that far off expectations.

guile4582

he needs solid proof of poor performance, he needs to have a record of this. did he provide this to you?
is it true?
bit confused what you want from the topic...advice on???

Zulu

How have you managed this issue to date?
If you're not seen as a manager, and there are complaints about your performance, what have you done to rectify those?

I ask because your reactions would be quite telling.
Supposing you wanted the role, that you cared about it, wouldn't you be addressing the issues as they arose, and be seeking a resolution - as opposed to looking for another job?

Make a list of issues raised. Come up with a solution to each one. Arrange a meeting with your manager. Explain that this is how you see the present state of play, that you don't feel its acceptable to you, and that you want to address it. Take them through your proposed solutions. Get their agreement, or where that isn't given, get their solution/advice. Set a realistic time frame against each one in your mind, add 20% to that time frame, and communicate that as a goal to your manager. Then get cracking.

Big problems are overcome in small steps. Take control - make the plan. Tell them you are in control - take them through it. Let them see you in control - execute the plan.

That is if you want a management role...

eigrod

Einstrahlung50 wrote: »

I like the job so would ideally like to stay. But the damage might be done if my manager's mind is made up.

I would tell your manager that you are going to talk to HR to see where you stand. I would talk to HR about your employment status. Depending on what they tell you, I would say to them that you will seek appropriate advice.

Again, there's a lot you haven't told us that is very relevant, ie how you were managed through the 10 months and if you received appropriate training and development for the role, and if any formal notifications of any underperformance or attendance issues were issued to you.

Going 'into battle' with an employer is never nice and never easy, and only you can decide if it's worth it.

Einstrahlung50

eigrod wrote: »

I would tell your manager that you are going to talk to HR to see where you stand. I would talk to HR about your employment status. Depending on what they tell you, I would say to them that you will seek appropriate advice.

Again, there's a lot you haven't told us that is very relevant, ie how you were managed through the 10 months and if you received appropriate training and development for the role, and if any formal notifications of any underperformance or attendance issues were issued to you.

Going 'into battle' with an employer is never nice and never easy, and only you can decide if it's worth it.

I have yet to receive any formal notice of underperformance, for my role as manager it seems to be a case of just figure it out. Bit I got training for the most part for the actual tasks.

Two of our clients are very complex/high profile, I was given ownership. Two guys that were already there knnew them inside out and I'm not up to their level yet. But they have been working on thr clients for years.

Given I have a mortgage and kids I'm trying to decide what is the best way for me to approach this.

I know someone senior in HR so thinking of asking for a quick informal chat.

ludalyni

eigrod wrote: »

Only partly true. Everyone has a right to fair procedures, be it within the 1st year of employment, or after and compensation is often awarded in the WRC where fair procedures weren't followed (but re-instatement is unlikely).

You can't bring an unfair dismissal case to the WRC unless you have one year's service (except in very limited circumstances e.g. where the dismissal is because the employee is pregnant).

dubrov

Einstrahlung50 wrote:

Two of our clients are very complex/high profile, I was given ownership. Two guys that were already there knnew them inside out and I'm not up to their level yet. But they have been working on thr clients for years.

If you are supposed to be managing them you don't need to be up to their level.

Just make sure they get the required work done. Sounds like you are trying to do the same role as them

Einstrahlung50

dubrov wrote: »

If you are supposed to be managing them you don't need to be up to their level.

Just make sure they get the required work done. Sounds like you are trying to do the same role as them

Well I'm not actually their line manager, my manager conducts their appraisals.

Einstrahlung50

dubrov wrote: »

If you are supposed to be managing them you don't need to be up to their level.

Just make sure they get the required work done. Sounds like you are trying to do the same role as them

The work is being done, if there are any issues I address them. I think my manager is afraid if they leave the company there will be nobody to cover. So pushing me hard to be at their level.

eigrod

ludalyni wrote: »

You can't bring an unfair dismissal case to the WRC unless you have one year's service (except in very limited circumstances e.g. where the dismissal is because the employee is pregnant).

You can't take a claim under the Unfair Dismissals Act. You can take a claim under the Industrial Relations Act 1969. Claims have been successful in the Labour Court (now under the WRC). That's why I referred to fair procedures, and not the actual dismissal itself.

guile4582

it's way too sunny to try and understand what this post is about, laterz

daheff

look this isnt a fair situation. You dont have a lot of rights on your side.

At this point if your manager wants you gone then chances are you will be.

Can you think of any issues /conversations that have happened recently that may have changed your managers view of you? Have relations between you and this manager always been frosty or did it change? Try to think of a reason why their view has changed

I assume you passed a probation after 6 months. Was everything going according to plan then?


Realistically though, unless this manager is up for the chop himself, your days are numbered in the company. If i were in your shoes I'd be sending out cvs sharpish.

Einstrahlung50

daheff wrote: »

look this isnt a fair situation. You dont have a lot of rights on your side.

At this point if your manager wants you gone then chances are you will be.

Can you think of any issues /conversations that have happened recently that may have changed your managers view of you? Have relations between you and this manager always been frosty or did it change? Try to think of a reason why their view has changed

I assume you passed a probation after 6 months. Was everything going according to plan then?


Realistically though, unless this manager is up for the chop himself, your days are numbered in the company. If i were in your shoes I'd be sending out cvs sharpish.

Oh yea have already been reviewing CVs my recruiter sent me. I supposed he's just come to the conclusion recently that I'm not up to the job.

masterluke3

If he is worried about your performance, and has received complaints about your performance... then I think you probably need to look at your performance. Ask yourself what you can do in the short term to upskill yourself. Don't rely on the manager providing this is he is already worried. Learn on the job. Watch these skilled guys and learn everything you can.

Its also very unclear what your role is. Have you got a written job spec including responsibilities? If you haven't then you need to sort that out pronto.

The best way to convince your manager that you can do the job is to excel in the job.

jimmycrackcorm

Einstrahlung50 wrote:

I was a manager for nearly two years in my last job, but probably notionally more than anything else.

It took me five years to learn how to be a manager. Not many people are actually naturally disposed to it.

One thing to carefully consider is that your performance isn't being actually rated on management but leadership.

I presume you haven't had any formal training as most don't, so start reading management books and pick up and practice tips from that.

Secondly, you can repair your managers view by engaging with him in addressing issues. Look for coaching and mentorship. Fix issues that he points out and make sure you don't reappear them. If you show a willingness to do that and are engaging then you should succeed.

Nine tenths of performance is the perception.

CeilingFly

eigrod wrote: »

You can't take a claim under the Unfair Dismissals Act. You can take a claim under the Industrial Relations Act 1969. Claims have been successful in the Labour Court (now under the WRC). That's why I referred to fair procedures, and not the actual dismissal itself.

Maybe the odd one is successful, but the op has been put on alert.

They can simply say that the op is not suitable for the position they were employed for.

Then give a weeks pay in lieu of notice.


After 12 months its a hell of a lot more difficult.

My money is on a pfo letter fairly soon.

OMM 0000

I'm wondering could you bring your manager for lunch, explain how you really want this job, and you're willing to take steps to make it work. Maybe you could both agree to a bunch of things which would help you make progress, and you work on them together.

I think you'll know pretty quickly if it's a lost cause. Either the manager will be open to this, or you'll get a "we're done" vibe and know it's time to move on.

How are your personal relationships with other people in the company? Do you have many allies there?

eagle eye

I'm not sure but maybe this could be a case where his boss is a bully?

I'd take notes of everything he says to you. As you said there has been nothing from HR. You should go to that person you know and ask him confidentially if there is any issues with HR. If there isn't then your issue is this boss you have. The best way to tackle that is to continue to take notes of every conversation he has with you regarding your performance. It won't take long to get enough together to bring him to the attention of somebody senior and hopefully get something done about him.

ludalyni

eigrod wrote: »

You can't take a claim under the Unfair Dismissals Act. You can take a claim under the Industrial Relations Act 1969. Claims have been successful in the Labour Court (now under the WRC). That's why I referred to fair procedures, and not the actual dismissal itself.

Recommendations from the WRC or Labour Court under the IR Acts aren't binding unless the employer agrees in advance. The OP could bring a claim if he was fired but the employer would likely ignore it and any recommendation wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on because there's no mechanism to enforce it.

I'd advise the OP to start looking for a new job.

bucketybuck

Einstrahlung50 wrote: »

He said he doesn't think I'm suited for the job.

Are you?

Honestly and truly, are you doing a good job? I can't see an answer to that so far.

lawred2

Einstrahlung50 wrote: »

Hi,

I started my current job 10 months ago, a couple of weeks ago my manager told me he isn't happy with my performance. Today he called me in for another meeting and said this would likely go down the formal route soon with HR. He said he doesn't think I'm suited for the job. It's a managerial position, and says I'm not seen as a manager in the team abd there have been complaints about my performance.

So two weeks ago he gave me my goals for the year which I should try to accomplish, (should have been done in January). Now I think he has made up his mind he doesn't me. I told him that I would probably start looking for another job elsewhere of I'm no wanted.

I'd just like to get some advice from anyone who has exeprience with this type of thing in work.

I'm emplyed in Dublin by the way for a large financial services company.

Just leave. Why on earth would anyone work where their manager actively wants them gone!?

Ask for a month paid upfront and offer to clear your desk immediately.

Get another job.

Never think of them again.

jon1981

Some managers don't know what they want and/or lucky to have good team members they can't claim credit for.
The OPs manager perhaps was lucky to have a couple of good people who have done the job well for years and he doesn't know how to recreate that in a new person... the OP says goals were set very late and it appears tribal knowledge is key to success...

OP although you're there less than 12 months, your manager is still on the back foot. He has to prove you're under performing and to do that he needs evidence of issues he's raised with you and examples of how you failed to address.

"I don't like you and i dont think you are capable" is not enough.

Einstrahlung50

I think the damage is done, I'm applying now for other jobs and plan to leave. I just want to play this so I have as much time as possible to find another job before I'm shown the door.

jon1981

Einstrahlung50 wrote: »

I think the damage is done, I'm applying now for other jobs and plan to leave. I just want to play this so I have as much time as possible to find another job before I'm shown the door.

In my experience, to manage someone out is at least a 3 month process.

Einstrahlung50

lawred2 wrote: »

Just leave. Why on earth would anyone work where their manager actively wants them gone!?

Ask for a month paid upfront and offer to clear your desk immediately.

Get another job.

Never think of them again.

Given I have a mortgage and kids to support I need to stay on as long as I can to find another job. Of the 6 interviews I did in the last 3 years I was offered all positions so hopefully I can keep up that streak because now is when I actually need it.

Einstrahlung50

jon1981 wrote: »

In my experience, to manage someone out is at least a 3 month process.

Also I've a two month notice period.

Pelvis

Your manager doesn't sound like a very good manager.

Einstrahlung50

Pelvis wrote: »

Your manager doesn't sound like a very good manager.

To be honest I think we're both at fault, I have underperformed at times for the position, looking back, but I wasn't really aware of it at the time because I didn't really know exactly what exactly was expected. I was made permanent so presumed what I was doing was fine.

ludalyni

Einstrahlung50 wrote: »

Also I've a two month notice period.

It's quite possible that your manager may dismiss you shortly and pay you in lieu of notice so as to try and prevent you benefitting from unfair dismissals legislation. Once you hit that one year mark, it'll become a lot more difficult to dismiss you. The process after one year would basically involve a series of performance improvement plans followed by a disciplinary hearing and sanctions (i.e. warnings) until they got up to dismissal.

The upside of being paid in lieu of notice is that you'll have time to apply for new jobs and will have a buffer of two months pay to find one.