Warranty on repair

cantwbr1

In Match 2017 we bought a 141 Skoda Superb from a local dealer (not Skoda). After a couple of months the driver window motor failed and was replaced under warranty.
Last week the same window motor failed. I haven’t been back to the dealer yet (as I’m out of the country since it happened) but what can I expect from them. The car is no longer under warranty but I think that the window motor should last longer than a year

biko

There was probably some paperwork with the repair to give a separate warranty on the repair itself.

Del2005

cantwbr1 wrote: »

In Match 2017 we bought a 141 Skoda Superb from a local dealer (not Skoda). After a couple of months the driver window motor failed and was replaced under warranty.
Last week the same window motor failed. I haven’t been back to the dealer yet (as I’m out of the country since it happened) but what can I expect from them. The car is no longer under warranty but I think that the window motor should last longer than a year

Never mind the warranty. The repair should have been permanent and its failed within a year so you have consumer rights to have it fixed.

But the first thing to do is see what the dealer says.

bazz26

Was the replacement part fitted by the dealer a new genuine Skoda part or a second hand part from a scrap yard? New genuine OEM parts usually come with a guarantee but I suspect it may have been a cheaper second hand part sourced from a scrap yard. If so then a year later and with the car out of warranty I'd say your on your own there.

Toyotafanboi

A part fitted during a warranty in this instance is only covered until the existing warranty expires, the warranty doesn't get extended on that part.

So for example if a motor was fitted March 17, on a car in warranty until January 18, that motor is only warrantied until January 18.

Spare parts fitted come with 2x years warranty if the customer (or dealer) pays for the repair, which neither did in this case, Skoda the manufacturer did.

Aside from all that though, you could reasonably expect the repair to last more than a year so i'd go to the dealer with the expectation that you want them to cover full costs or at least meet you a good portion of the way towards the cost.

Also, are you sure it's the motor failed again? The window switches in those are prone to trouble iirc.

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

Was the replacement part fitted by the dealer a new genuine Skoda part or a second hand part from a scrap yard? New genuine OEM parts usually come with a guarantee but I suspect it may have been a cheaper second hand part sourced from a scrap yard. If so then a year later and with the car out of warranty I'd say your on your own there.

It doesn't matter.

The dealer is giving the warranty to the car and the car was fixed withing the given time period. Subsequent failures, outside of the warranty window, are not covered.

Del2005 wrote: »

Never mind the warranty. The repair should have been permanent and its failed within a year so you have consumer rights to have it fixed.

Nonsense. It would be different though if the OP paid for the repair, even symbolically. Then customer laws would apply.

Del2005

grogi wrote: »

Nonsense. It would be different though if the OP paid for the repair, even symbolically. Then customer laws would apply.

Show me where it says that? All I can find is that a repair should be permanent in the legislation, there's no mention of paying for it.

mullingar

It's out of warranty for sure.


The repair was "permanent" as it was not in any way completed as a temporary repair as it had fully working Skoda parts installed. The fact it failed a year later is down to cheap parts made by skoda

Del2005

mullingar wrote: »

It's out of warranty for sure.


The repair was "permanent" as it was not in any way completed as a temporary repair as it had fully working Skoda parts installed. The fact it failed a year later is down to cheap parts made by skoda

That's not permanent in consumer law.

bucketybuck

biko wrote: »

There was probably some paperwork with the repair to give a separate warranty on the repair itself.

Absolutely not, there is no separate warranty on a repair carried out under manufacturers warranty.

A repair carried out under warranty does not extend the original warranty period.

cantwbr1 wrote: »

The car is no longer under warranty but I think that the window motor should last longer than a year

Maybe it should, but you have no contractual right to enforce that as you did not pay for the window motor that was fitted.

bucketybuck

Del2005 wrote: »

That's not permanent in consumer law.

Why do you think consumer law applies?

Who is a consumer?
Generally speaking a consumer is defined in Irish law as a natural person who buys goods or a service for personal use or consumption from someone whose business it is to sell goods or provide services. By law, you are not a consumer if you:

Receive goods as a gift
Buy goods for commercial purposes (i.e. you will be using the goods for commercial and not private use)
Buy goods for private use that are normally used for business purposes
Buy goods from an individual who is not in business (i.e. you buy a car from an individual whose normal business is not selling cars)

Del2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why do you think consumer law applies?

They bought a car from a dealer which developed a fault and it wasn't permanently fixed. What part isn't covered by consumer law?

bucketybuck

Del2005 wrote: »

They bought a car from a dealer which developed a fault and it wasn't permanently fixed. What part isn't covered by consumer law?

:rolleyes:

mullingar

Del2005 wrote: »

They bought a car from a dealer which developed a fault and it wasn't permanently fixed. What part isn't covered by consumer law?

With logic like that, cars will never have a warranty expiry.

The bottom line is the garage made in all good faith a permanent repair during the warranty period. Failures outside warranty are simply not covered by the dealer.

Del2005

mullingar wrote: »

With logic like that, cars will never have a warranty expiry.

The bottom line is the garage made in all good faith a permanent repair during the warranty period. Failures outside warranty are simply not covered by the dealer.

Warranties can expire all they like. Consumer law overrides them and in this country you have up to 7 years to make a claim.

The bottom line is that the OP bought a car a year ago and within that time it developed a fault. The dealer tried to repair it but it's turned out not to be a permanent repair.

The warranty or lack of it doesn't enter the equation as it's a consumer issue not a warranty issue.

bucketybuck

The dealer did repair it. The wiper motor failed, it was replaced with a new motor, the repair was completed. That is a simple fact.

James Bond Junior

If it was a spurious part fitted eg Lucas, the garage may very well be able to have it replaced under warranty from Lucas themselves.

grogi

Del2005 wrote: »

Warranties can expire all they like. Consumer law overrides them and in this country you have up to 7 years to make a claim.

You have 7 years - but you only can claim that the product was faulty/unfit for the purpose at the time of purchase. Consumer laws don't protect you if the product develops a fault within those 7 years.

There is a grace period from the purchase when if the fault is discovered, it is assumed it was there at the time of purchase. But once that period is over - the onus of proof the fault was there at the time of purchase lays with the consumer.

Majority of retailers will not argue with the consumer - it simply is not worth it. But it is not the law.

Del2005 wrote: »

The bottom line is that the OP bought a car a year ago and within that time it developed a fault.The dealer tried to repair it but it's turned out not to be a permanent repair.

The fault wasn't there at the time of purchase, it developed later. What's more, the dealer fixed it.

The warranty or lack of it doesn't enter the equation as it's a consumer issue not a warranty issue.

Absolutely. But the protection consumer gets is very very weak. Warranty coverage is usually much better.

grogi

James Bond Junior wrote: »

If it was a spurious part fitted eg Lucas, the garage may very well be able to have it replaced under warranty from Lucas themselves.

Sure - but the garage has no obligation to chase that case. They might do it to show good faith, but they don't have to.

James Bond Junior

grogi wrote: »

Sure - but the garage has no obligation to chase that case. They might do it to show good faith, but they don't have to.

Not hard, send it back to the supplying motor factor and they take it from there.

grogi

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Not hard, send it back to the supplying motor factor and they take it from there.

Take it out. Send it. Store the car. Receive it. Put it back... That's at least few hundred quid in labour and other costs.

DaveyDave

If the customer can't claim warranty replacement on a warranty replacement, then surely the dealer can? They paid for a part? I know it doesn't necessarily effect them because they did their part, but if the customer is back in it would be nice to do, if possible?

Each part has a percentage fail rate, say 5%, times that by how many millions of parts there is out there. Seems like a waste to not get your money's worth.

I don't know much about how dealers operate though.

bucketybuck

DaveyDave wrote: »

If the customer can't claim warranty replacement on a warranty replacement, then surely the dealer can? They paid for a part? I know it doesn't necessarily effect them because they did their part, but if the customer is back in it would be nice to do, if possible?

Each part has a percentage fail rate, say 5%, times that by how many millions of parts there is out there. Seems like a waste to not get your money's worth.

I don't know much about how dealers operate though.

The dealer didn't pay for it either, the manufacturer did.

When the dealer replaced the wiper motor the bill for that repair was sent from the dealer to the manufacturer. A self billing invoice probably but its the same result, the manufacturer covered the costs.

So consumer protections apply to whomever actually paid the bill in the first place. In this case it wasn't the car owner, so their protections remain the same as they originally were from the purchase of the car itself. And it wasn't the dealer, so they can't reclaim costs they never accrued in the first place.

No, the manufacturer paid the bill. They are the ones who could look to recover costs, but since they would be looking to recover costs from themselves why on earth would they do that?

James Bond Junior

grogi wrote: »

Take it out. Send it. Store the car. Receive it. Put it back... That's at least few hundred quid in labour and other costs.

Which the garage can put in as a labour claim as part of the warranty claim.

bucketybuck

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Which the garage can put in as a labour claim as part of the warranty claim.

But you are talking about spurious parts, in such cases the suppliers are very unlikely to pay for ancillary costs such as labour.

Parts warranty and manufacturers warranty are different animals. If a supplier supplied a spurious part and it fails, their obligation is to supply a replacement part. They did not fit the part in the first place and have no obligation to cover the cost of fitting it the 2nd time around. Goodwill not withstanding.

James Bond Junior

bucketybuck wrote: »

But you are talking about spurious parts, in such cases the suppliers are very unlikely to pay for ancillary costs such as labour.

Parts warranty and manufacturers warranty are different animals. If a supplier supplied a spurious part and it fails, their obligation is to supply a replacement part. They did not fit the part in the first place and have no obligation to cover the cost of fitting it the 2nd time around. Goodwill not withstanding.

I don't mean to be patronising but in the trade world, garages can and do put warranty claims in and include a labour claim as part of this. Fact.

grogi

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I don't mean to be patronising but in the trade world, garages can and do put warranty claims in and include a labour claim as part of this. Fact.

When they supply and fit a part they also give warranty for the whole.

bucketybuck

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I don't mean to be patronising but in the trade world, garages can and do put warranty claims in and include a labour claim as part of this. Fact.

Who are you trying to tell, I'm literally in charge of warranty for a multi- franchise dealer.

You were talking about spurious parts. I have often billed time and costs to motor factors because of faulty parts or even incorrectly supplied parts, but that doesn't change the facts about their obligations.

James Bond Junior

bucketybuck wrote: »

Who are you trying to tell, I'm literally in charge of warranty for a multi- franchise dealer.

You were talking about spurious parts. I have often billed time and costs to motor factors because of faulty parts or even incorrectly supplied parts, but that doesn't change the facts about their obligations.

I have extremely close links to one of the largest independent motor factor chains in Ireland. In my experience, suppliers will also allow for labour on warranty claims.

bucketybuck

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I have extremely close links to one of the largest independent motor factor chains in Ireland. In my experience, suppliers will also allow for labour on warranty claims.

So do I, we own one of them.

Dick measuring aside this thread is about a repair carried out under manufacturers warranty followed by a 2nd failure outside the warranty terms, I'm not sure spurious parts suppliers are very relevant.

James Bond Junior

bucketybuck wrote: »

So do I, we own one of them.

Dick measuring aside this thread is about a repair carried out under manufacturers warranty followed by a 2nd failure outside the warranty terms, I'm not sure spurious parts suppliers are very relevant.

No you're right, I didn't mean to be coming across as I know more than you, just that is our experience.

Del2005

grogi wrote: »

The fault wasn't there at the time of purchase, it developed later. What's more, the dealer fixed it.

They replaced a part and the fault reoccurred, that's not fixed.

Toyotafanboi

Del2005 wrote: »

They replaced a part and the fault reoccurred, that's not fixed.

It was fixed, now it's broken again. This time it's out of warranty. As already said, by that reasoning, cars would be in warranty forever.

To be fair, this is all huge speculation, we havn't even confirmation that the same part is broken twice.

challengemaster

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It was fixed, now it's broken again. This time it's out of warranty. As already said, by that reasoning, cars would be in warranty forever.

That doesn't follow logic at all. Nobody has implied replacing a window motor increases the warranty period for the entire vehicle and every part gets an extended warranty.

Any part replaced under warranty should have it's own warranty duration applied to the part. So unless the entire car is replaced under warranty, idk what way you're figuring the warranty would never expire.

bucketybuck

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

To be fair, this is all huge speculation, we havn't even confirmation that the same part is broken twice.

It physically cannot be the same part. The original part was removed and replaced. Now the replacement may have failed.

They may both be window regs, but they are physically different parts and that matters.

challengemaster wrote: »

Any part replaced under warranty should have it's own warranty duration applied to the part. So unless the entire car is replaced under warranty, idk what way you're figuring the warranty would never expire.

Any part sold does have its statutory warranty conditions. The problem though is who gets to claim them and unfortunately for the OP it isn't him/her.

Toyotafanboi

challengemaster wrote: »

That doesn't follow logic at all. Nobody has implied replacing a window motor increases the warranty period for the entire vehicle and every part gets an extended warranty.

Any part replaced under warranty should have it's own warranty duration applied to the part. So unless the entire car is replaced under warranty, idk what way you're figuring the warranty would never expire.

Actually quite a lot of people have suggested things to that effect. The reality is the fault was fixed during the warranty period, now the warranty is up, there's a fault with the car, its not covered by the warranty as there is none and that's all there is to it really.

bucketybuck wrote: »

It physically cannot be the same part. The original part was removed and replaced. Now the replacement may have failed.

They may both be window regs, but they are physically different parts and that matters.

All I'm saying is we don't even know a second window motor has failed. It could be a fault with the reg, a broken wire, blown fuse, faulty switch etc etc. We're getting into the nitty gritty of should there be warranty cover or not on a repair from last year when we don't even know that the repair has definitely failed.

grogi

bucketybuck wrote: »

Any part sold does have its statutory warranty conditions.

Consumer laws don't apply if you are a company.

Toyotafanboi

grogi wrote: »

Consumer laws don't apply if you are a company.

This part also wasn't sold.

I think bbc is aware if that though, he's just explaining how other scenarios could be.

grogi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

This part also wasn't sold.

I think it actually was sold - to the same independent dealer the OP bought from. It is my understanding that the first fix was under the dealer's warranty, not the manufacturers warranty... It was a 141 car, failing in late 2017 - and Skoda's standard warranty is 3 years...

Toyotafanboi

Didn't cop that in the OP about the independent dealer. Well if the independent dealer bought the part from Skoda then the part has 24 months warranty on it. If it's a spurious part all bets are off :pac: i still maintain we need to confirm that it is a second failure of the motor!

bucketybuck

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Didn't cop that in the OP about the independent dealer.

:pac:

In my world "dealer" is always the main dealer, everything else is just a garage. The rest of the world should know that.

grogi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Didn't cop that in the OP about the independent dealer. Well if the independent dealer bought the part from Skoda then the part has 24 months warranty on it. If it's a spurious part all bets are off :pac: i still maintain we need to confirm that it is a second failure of the motor!

I seriously doubt it - it was probably sourced from scrap. OE parts are insanely expensive if bought from the dealer.

Even if it was bought from Skoda - it is the garage that could chase the warranty of it. With high probability they wont - they have fulfilled their contractual obligations, and it would generate additional cost for the garage.

Toyotafanboi

It's all speculation but I doubt it was sourced from scrap. Every main dealer has a retail parts department and people are keeping them open, a lot of things aren't badly priced but obviously it varies by part and manufacturer.

If an independent garage fitted a Skoda motor bought from a Skoda dealer and are confident that the motor has failed again then the garage as the customer can drop the car back to a Skoda dealership who will remove the old motor and fit a new one under spare parts warranty.

Del2005

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It was fixed, now it's broken again. This time it's out of warranty. As already said, by that reasoning, cars would be in warranty forever.

Cars can have warranties for as long a manufacturer wants. What we have is legislation which supersedes that and is much more consumer friendly.

The OP bought a car with electric windows and they have now failed, twice. The electric windows in a car aren't a consumable so should last the lifetime of the vehicle. So the OP brings the car back to the business they bought it from till the business fixes the issue or they come to an agreement with the other 2 Rs.

Toyotafanboi

Del2005 wrote: »

Cars can have warranties for as long a manufacturer wants. What we have is legislation which supersedes that and is much more consumer friendly.

The OP bought a car with electric windows and they have now failed, twice. The electric windows in a car aren't a consumable so should last the lifetime of the vehicle. So the OP brings the car back to the business they bought it from till the business fixes the issue or they come to an agreement with the other 2 Rs.

So any part that should "last the lifetime of a vehicle", is indefinitely warrantied? Is there a defined list of items somewhere or how does a part get "last a lifetime" status?

Why are we not seeing this in practise?

Surely people would be queing out the door at main dealers for free repairs and independent workshops would be struggling for work If this were the case?

It's a great idea in theory but I'd love to see some real world examples of reapir/ refund/ replacement of a second hand car due to a fault similar to this.

Del2005

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

So any part that should "last the lifetime of a vehicle", is indefinitely warrantied? Is there a defined list of items somewhere or how does a part get "last a lifetime" status?

Why are we not seeing this in practise?

Surely people would be queing out the door at main dealers for free repairs and independent workshops would be struggling for work If this were the case?

It's a great idea in theory but I'd love to see some real world examples of reapir/ refund/ replacement of a second hand car due to a fault similar to this.

We aren't seeing this in practice because for some reason people think that a manufacturer or dealer warranty are the only rights they have when a car goes faulty. If they go to the correct forum for consumer issues they'll get the correct advice about getting their problem resolved.

People have returned cars under the sale of goods for more spurious reasons than the OP, at least the the OPs is a proper issue.

Hellrazer

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

So any part that should "last the lifetime of a vehicle", is indefinitely warrantied? Is there a defined list of items somewhere or how does a part get "last a lifetime" status?

Most customers assume that everything has a lifetime warranty anyway and nothing should ever ever go wrong :D:D
Had one man that thought his crash repairs were covered under warranty.Never mind the ones that think filling their diesel with petrol and then driving it is also covered.

How would you define if something has a lifetime warranty?
My washing machine is only an electric motor /water pump and a control unit..should that have lifetime warranty??Im on my 3rd now in 15 years.
What about my kettle? Iron? Where do you stop?

Toyotafanboi

Del2005 wrote: »

We aren't seeing this in practice because for some reason people think that a manufacturer or dealer warranty are the only rights they have when a car goes faulty. If they go to the correct forum for consumer issues they'll get the correct advice about getting their problem resolved.

People have returned cars under the sale of goods for more spurious reasons than the OP, at least the the OPs is a proper issue.

I can see what you mean, I've just never seen a practical real life example, most likely because it doesn't happen.

It's like Hellrazer says. Where is the line or definition in this?

I bought my 07 Civic two years ago from an independent dealer, dealer, 1 previous owner and a FSH which I've kept up. My O/S/F calliper went last week, callipers aren't a consumable item. Could I have taken the car back to the dealer for a free calliper or a refund?

That'd be spot on, save me a nice bit on repair costs and if they won't repair it, I'll have had two years depreciation free driving in the Civic. Really great news for the consumer.

Unlimited mileage, indefinite duration warranties for all!

Del2005

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I can see what you mean, I've just never seen a practical real life example, most likely because it doesn't happen.

It's like Hellrazer says. Where is the line or definition in this?

I bought my 07 Civic two years ago from an independent dealer, dealer, 1 previous owner and a FSH which I've kept up. My O/S/F calliper went last week, callipers aren't a consumable item. Could I have taken the car back to the dealer for a free calliper or a refund?

That'd be spot on, save me a nice bit on repair costs and if they won't repair it, I'll have had two years depreciation free driving in the Civic. Really great news for the consumer.

Unlimited mileage, indefinite duration warranties for all!

You got 2 years from a 11 year old car. So the calipers lasted 11 years, I'd bet all the electric windows are still working as well. But if it was a 2 year old car I'd definitely be going back if the calipers failed, just like the OP should be going back because the electric windows failed in 2 years.

There's no warranties for all.... It's called the sale of goods and supply of services act!