Have you met any homophobic/transphobic young people?

nigel_wilson

I'm not sure if it's cultural differences but my African cousin and mother who I thought was quite nice and open minded was pretty much against the idea of myself being LGBT or the idea in general. My cousin clearly thinks it's icky and mother holds stronger views and said she would be 'devastated' if I turned out LGBT (especially being transgender) and said that she would "rather get cancer and die".

It's interesting (not really tbh but you get what I mean) that bother her and my cousin hold similar views that fundumantelist Christians in the US hold but they don't come across like that. It a shame that they're unaccepting of me being bisexual but honestly, what to do.

I'm wondering if anyone knows family or friends that are like this.

na1

are you a homophobophobic?

nigel_wilson

na1 wrote: »

are you a homophobophobic?

Well I don't really care about the comments strangers may have about my gender issues or sexual orientation but I thought that family members were supposed to be more understanding (at least that's what a therapist said). Now I realize that's probably naive.

The fact that my mother says these things is proof they probably aren't really empathetic people in all fairness (IMHO)

na1

nigel_wilson wrote: »

na1 wrote: »

are you a homophobophobic?

Well I don't really care about the comments strangers may have about my gender issues or sexual orientation but I thought that family members were supposed to be more understanding (at least that's what a therapist said). Now I realize that's probably naive.

The fact that my mother says these things is proof they probably aren't really empathetic people in all fairness (IMHO)

This is a natural reaction for people to repulse the 'non-standard' sexual patterns.
For example the majority of the community (including boards) do hate pedophiles and thinks that coprophags are disgusting. 
That's natural.

Sameasyou

whatever sexual practice people engage in, so long as it is legal, consentual and safe, whose business is it after that?
People are very quick to judge others.
I find the younger generation are more accepting of others. You’ll always get a few haters. No real reason needed.

nigel_wilson

Sameasyou wrote: »

whatever sexual practice people engage in, so long as it is legal, consentual and safe, whose business is it after that?
People are very quick to judge others.
I find the younger generation are more accepting of others. You’ll always get a few haters. No real reason needed.

True but I think culture has a massive influence. I've lived in the US and people in general say that African Americans are on average more anti-LGBT than other people.

I was just curious as to how many Irish young teens who are the same age as my cousin (23yr old millenial) would be totally against it.

harr

Yes unfortunately, I have a cousin who is very homophobic and to be honest racist at times and his children are turning out the same way..
I try to show my own children that what they are saying is wrong and I do try limit my kids interaction with his kids..
Quick question anyone recommend a book or resource on explaining why someone is transgender they are still young ( under 10)
They were happy with my exclamation on gays couples ( for now) but explaining transgender is is a bit more complex.

nigel_wilson

harr wrote: »

Yes unfortunately, I have a cousin who is very homophobic and to be honest racist at times and his children are turning out the same way..
I try to show my own children that what they are saying is wrong and I do try limit my kids interaction with his kids..
Quick question anyone recommend a book or resource on explaining why someone is transgender they are still young ( under 10)
They were happy with my exclamation on gays couples ( for now) but explaining transgender is is a bit more complex.

Is he Irish and or religious? Just wondering how common homophobia is in people who have no religious affiliation living in pretty liberal countries

na1

harr wrote: »

Quick question anyone recommend a book or resource on explaining why someone is transgender 

Some kind of mental illness is making people believe that they are not who they are.
You'd better give your children a book about DNA, X, Y chromosomes etc.

harr

nigel_wilson wrote: »

Is he Irish and or religious? Just wondering how common homophobia is in people who have no religious affiliation living in pretty liberal countries

Yes he is Irish and not in anyway religious...just a bigot

D3V!L

nigel_wilson wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's cultural differences but my African cousin and mother who I thought was quite nice and open minded was pretty much against the idea of myself being LGBT or the idea in general. My cousin clearly thinks it's icky and mother holds stronger views and said she would be 'devastated' if I turned out LGBT (especially being transgender) and said that she would "rather get cancer and die".

It's interesting (not really tbh but you get what I mean) that bother her and my cousin hold similar views that fundumantelist Christians in the US hold but they don't come across like that. It a shame that they're unaccepting of me being bisexual but honestly, what to do.

I'm wondering if anyone knows family or friends that are like this.

Jaysus, you're doing well being LGBT all at the same time.

baby and crumble

na1: Transphobia is not permitted on the LGBT board, it's in the charter and there's no place for it here.

JackTaylorFan

Yeah, i encounter transphobia on an almost daily basis, and, sadly, I must report, it's almost always entirely from people who belong to minorities. And I don't doubt that it exists in all sections of society, but these so called minorities are a lot more vocal about it in my experience. Anyways, I have gotten into trouble for documenting some of these incidents before... so...

I live and grew-up in a small enough town where everybody knows your business.. It's like a goldfish bowl... and word obviously gets around... So yeah, even if it's not obvious when you see me I still get **** for being trans.

The latest incident was a young (about 17 or so) black teenager (I suspect Nigerian also), who decided in the middle of a busy street to start taking the piss as his young Irish girlfriend laughed along with him. I also had another Nigerian man who claimed to be gay himself confront me on the street and pretty much out me to an entire crowd of young people. Apparently he knew me to see in the LGBT community (whatever that means) and so he had a right to know why I exist. This same guy continues to harass me from time-to-time, once following me into a pub and confronting me as I sat with some friends having a drink.

Then there are the Irish people themselves... and to be honest, some of them are just as ****ing bad...

Also, the people who are transphobic and don't even recognise it as such... because they want to believe they are tolerant and accepting, but when it comes down to it, they still view you as something other than. "But you're not a real woman, are you?" is what one of my cis straight friends said to me after a drink or two on a night out. So yeah, it's everywhere. And not always as obvious as someone shouting abuse and threatening you on the street, or on the bus (which happens a lot by the way) or wherever.

As for religion, I'm sure it plays its part. I have witnessed it first hand in my own family - it demonizes homosexuality and transgenderism for sure. But then again, all this faith ****, it's just a convenient excuse for people to be hateful *****, in my honest opinion.


And to put all that into context, on a day-to-day basis, my experiences with people are mainly positive (unlike a lot of transwomen who don't "pass" as well as I do) but it's the **** ones that stick...

"Pass", sorry, I hate this term...

Qrt

Unfortunately, there seems to be a bit more prejudice among people with African origins, but to me that's just a result of colonisation. A lot of Africa is dominated by Crazy Catholics, Evangelicals and Pentecostalists – much the same as the American Bible Belt. Ireland was identical up until recently, and a lot of Eastern Europe remains so. Only time will change things.

Help!!!!

Qrt wrote: »

Unfortunately, there seems to be a bit more prejudice among people with African origins, but to me that's just a result of colonisation. A lot of Africa is dominated by Crazy Catholics, Evangelicals and Pentecostalists – much the same as the American Bible Belt. Ireland was identical up until recently, and a lot of Eastern Europe remains so. Only time will change things.

It has more to do about the religion you left out & cultural differences.
Raping a man is seen as power over that person which is why its done in conflict. In prison a 'man' can have a sexual relationship with another man or a transwoman but the 'man' will not consider himself gay, it is that he is the dominant one
It wasn't that long ago that Ireland voted yes to same sex marriage do you think in 3 years 'Irish' people have started turning 'phobic' again or is it more to do with who we have started importing?
I'm sorry to say that the LGBTQ community have been sold out by our 'elites'

JackTaylorFan

Qrt wrote: »

Only time will change things.

Massive influx of people with fundamentalist third world religious beliefs...

Yeah, let's see which way that goes...

Sameasyou

I’m religious, catholic. I’m also bi. I have never been told in church to discriminate against anyone who is gay, trans etc. If I was I would get up and walk out. I think the church has become a lot more liberal than it used to be. You get the odd crazy one in the congregation with some hard line views. But to me God would not create you a certain way to punish you. I am happy to take my kids there. I would only ever worship a loving God. Ireland will change for the better. Hang in there.

Help!!!!

Sameasyou wrote: »

I’m religious, catholic. I’m also bi. I have never been told in church to discriminate against anyone who is gay, trans etc. If I was I would get up and walk out. I think the church has become a lot more liberal than it used to be. You get the odd crazy one in the congregation with some hard line views. But to me God would not create you a certain way to punish you. I am happy to take my kids there. I would only ever worship a loving God. Ireland will change for the better. Hang in there.

Yes the Catholic church may do but unfortunately theres a new kid in town with a backward mentality & not much tolerance

JackTaylorFan

Sameasyou wrote: »

I’m religious, catholic. I’m also bi. I have never been told in church to discriminate against anyone who is gay, trans etc. If I was I would get up and walk out. I think the church has become a lot more liberal than it used to be. You get the odd crazy one in the congregation with some hard line views. But to me God would not create you a certain way to punish you. I am happy to take my kids there. I would only ever worship a loving God. Ireland will change for the better. Hang in there.

The head of your church, the pope, literally preaches exclusion and intolerance (which amounts to hate) of LGBT+ people - and he is seen by straights as progressive... It's laughable you saying on one hand that on a micro level you have never witnessed such an incident, while ignoring the fact your church is inherently phobic.

Sameasyou

Thanks for that. Can you please link me to where the current pope is preaching his exclusion and intolerance, as I seem to have missed that.
Is he singling out LGBT+ for this intolerance or does he include straight people having sex outside marriage in his condemnation of all that is wrong with the world today?
Does he single out LGBT+ for extra exclusion than straight people who have sex outside of marriage?
My life as a Catholic has been mostly positive, but my faith and loyalty to the church has been severely battered with all the disgusting scandals that have came to light, and still more to come I know.
My faith is a simple one and I let my own conscience decide what is right and wrong.
I hope and pray for changes so that I can be proud of my church again.

JackTaylorFan

Here's just a small sample... it's really not hard to find stories of Pope Francis being exclusionary of LGBTQ people. He is trying to drag the church into the 20th century, a century too late.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/pope-condemns-technologies-make-gender-transitions-easier-n808081

https://www.metroweekly.com/2018/03/international-womens-day-event-banned-from-vatican-over-lesbian-speaker/

https://www.advocate.com/religion/2018/6/16/pope-francis-same-sex-couples-are-not-families


Good luck defending that...

JackTaylorFan

Okay... one more for posterity...

https://www.vox.com/2015/2/20/8078979/pope-francis-trans-rights

Sameasyou

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Good luck defending that...

Thank you for the links. Please don’t think I’m trying to defend the pope. I’m here to learn by talking about these issues. If more people did that, they will educate themselves, and through education comes understanding. I’ve shared my personal experience within my church. I’m not going to Mass every week to hear sermons where LGBT+ are condemned from the pulpit. I want Trans people in Ireland to know that acceptance is coming. That was the purpose of me responding in the first place. I wanted to help the OP to feel better. To give them hope for a better Ireland. I didn’t reply to defend, nor did I defend the Pope.

cgcsb

Sameasyou wrote: »

I hope and pray for changes so that I can be proud of my church again.

I don't mean any offence, but do you seriously foresee a future in which any remotely moral person could be 'proud' of the Catholic Church? Like with everything that has happened and continues to happen.

Sameasyou

It’s not that long ago that women had to be churched after having a baby, as that was the product of sin. That doesn’t happen now. At a time Infants who died before they were baptised were not allowed to be buried in the church graveyard. That does not happen now. I could list many more changes that have happened because right thinking people could see it was cold and inhuman. That’s why I believe changes can happen.

JackTaylorFan

Sameasyou wrote: »

Thank you for the links. Please don’t think I’m trying to defend the pope. I’m here to learn by talking about these issues. If more people did that, they will educate themselves, and through education comes understanding. I’ve shared my personal experience within my church. I’m not going to Mass every week to hear sermons where LGBT+ are condemned from the pulpit. I want Trans people in Ireland to know that acceptance is coming. That was the purpose of me responding in the first place. I wanted to help the OP to feel better. To give them hope for a better Ireland. I didn’t reply to defend, nor did I defend the Pope.

My apologies. I mistook the tone. I'm too used to people looking for arguments on here. Thanks for the clarification

wakka12

Sameasyou wrote: »

I’m religious, catholic. I’m also bi. I have never been told in church to discriminate against anyone who is gay, trans etc. If I was I would get up and walk out. I think the church has become a lot more liberal than it used to be. You get the odd crazy one in the congregation with some hard line views. But to me God would not create you a certain way to punish you. I am happy to take my kids there. I would only ever worship a loving God. Ireland will change for the better. Hang in there.

There were pride flags on the church at top of stephens green on saturday

JackTaylorFan

wakka12 wrote: »

There were pride flags on the church at top of stephens green on saturday

Well that makes everything okay then...

baby and crumble

wakka12 wrote: »

There were pride flags on the church at top of stephens green on saturday

To be fair that was probably the Unitarian Church, so that's not Catholic.

I did like to see some religious groups marching in the parade on Saturday, just shows that while the mass relious doctrine may be preached one way, not all of those of that particular faith believe all the doctrine. It's pointless to tar all relious people with one brush, just like it's pointless to tar all gay or trans people with one brush too.