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Can I refuse to do something I don't agree with?

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  • 27-06-2018 5:05pm
    #1
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,936 ✭✭✭✭


    Pretty sure I know the answer to this is that I have to do it, but want to see opinions anyway.

    There's a piece of work coming up where I work that I think isn't very fair to our customers, is a waste of resources for doing it and a big waste of work that I and others have done previously.

    Can I refuse to do it and argue against it on those reasons or do I have to do it if I've the time to do it?


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    #2
    Westernyelp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭Westernyelp


    Of course you can argue against it. But be prepared for sanction. A lot depends on your position within the company of course


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    #3
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    If your manager likes you and wants to keep you, he may just assign it to someone else.

    But if your manager doesn't rate you, this might be a written warning.

    You are being paid to do what they ask you to do. As long as it's not illegal or degrading, you are supposed to do it.


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    #4
    Jimbob1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭Jimbob1977


    Any chance you can take it 'higher' on the quiet? Pointing out the complete folly and potential losses of the project?

    Or is it a done deal?

    It's politics. Someone will lose credibility if you manage to get their project shut down.

    You can register your dissatisfaction, but I guess they're paying your salary to implement it.... and give 100% effort.

    It depends how angry you are about the project. Could you request to be omitted from the project team?


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    #5
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,936 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    I'm arguing against it anyway, as it's completely stupid and just loses the company money whilst not being fair to customers or staff. It's more of a brushing something under the carpet incase of auditing and ensuring a paper trail.

    My manager is in agreement with me too in that it shouldn't be done, but it's coming from higher ups. Most likely I'll do my best to push against it, delay it as long as possible and see if I can get someone higher up to actually put their name against it so that when it goes wrong, they get the sh1t and not me.


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    #6
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    titan18 wrote: »
    I'm arguing against it anyway, as it's completely stupid and just loses the company money whilst not being fair to customers or staff. It's more of a brushing something under the carpet incase of auditing and ensuring a paper trail.

    My manager is in agreement with me too in that it shouldn't be done, but it's coming from higher ups. Most likely I'll do my best to push against it, delay it as long as possible and see if I can get someone higher up to actually put their name against it so that when it goes wrong, they get the sh1t and not me.

    Why are you putting your neck on the line instead of your manager if he/she agrees with you? If it is deemed necessary for auditing and accountability, if a refusal has potential implications for the company, could that have repercussions for you?


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    #7
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    A better approach instead of just saying "this is unfair and a waste of time" is to say "hey, maybe we can build on this huge thing we've already done, and go from there? Here's some ideas I've had on how to improve it while still meeting goals x, y and z". Put together some lovely graphs showing "time totally wasted with management method" vs "time saved with your method".


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    #8
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Something to be done to provide audit evidence sounds like it may need to be done.

    Regulators tame a dim view if things are been done on the back of a fag packet.


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    #9
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,936 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Something to be done to provide audit evidence sounds like it may need to be done.

    Regulators tame a dim view if things are been done on the back of a fag packet.

    By doing it for audit evidence, I mean, they're doing something as a fudge to point to as we've got processes in place, rather than an actual proper solution that would be better for our customers and the auditors would be happy with.

    What they've chosen is the easiest path possible no matter how bad it is.


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    #10
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    titan18 wrote: »
    By doing it for audit evidence, I mean, they're doing something as a fudge to point to as we've got processes in place, rather than an actual proper solution that would be better for our customers and the auditors would be happy with.

    What they've chosen is the easiest path possible no matter how bad it is.

    This isn't your job though.

    I agree with the others that your manager should be doing this.

    Or you can document your thoughts and e-mail them to your manager.

    I don't mean this in a rude way, but are you young? It sounds like you are quite inexperienced with office politics.


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    #11
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,936 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    This isn't your job though.

    I agree with the others that your manager should be doing this.

    Or you can document your thoughts and e-mail them to your manager.

    I don't mean this in a rude way, but are you young? It sounds like you are quite inexperienced with office politics.

    Not really that young, albeit youngish. My manager is fighting it too, it's not just me. I'd rather just give the people asking for it enough rope to hang themselves but leave my name out of it.


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    #12
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    titan18 wrote: »
    Not really that young, albeit youngish. My manager is fighting it too, it's not just me. I'd rather just give the people asking for it enough rope to hang themselves but leave my name out of it.

    Just be careful. If you care about this job and want a future there, I would tread very lightly.


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    #13
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,515 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Rather than “argue”, put a reasoned proposal to your boss showing the time and so company money that would be saved.


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    #14
    gerrybbadd
    Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭gerrybbadd


    Is it against policy or even potentially illegal?

    If not, you'd unfortunately have to tow the company line


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    #15
    Conservatory
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Conservatory


    Don’t argue against it. The higher ups want it for reasons you have no idea of.


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    #16
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Conservatory wrote: »
    Don’t argue against it. The higher ups want it for reasons you have no idea of.

    Then he/she wouldn't have a problem with it, he would just complete the task and move on.


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    #17
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Then he/she wouldn't have a problem with it, he would just complete the task and move on.

    Which to be fair, is a what the op is being paid to do, is it not?


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    #18
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,936 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    davo10 wrote: »
    Which to be fair, is a what the op is being paid to do, is it not?

    It's not the army tbf. If someone tells me to do something stupid, I'm going to question it. When it's directly going to inconvenience customers and is highly unfair, I'm definitely going to question it. I also can't see any good reason for doing it either. It looks like it's just sweeping crap under a carpet. Maybe they do, but considering what I've seen in an email on why to do it is cos so and so said to, I'm doubting they actually have any proper reason.

    Anyway, hopefully someone else will get asked to do it, and my name doesn't go near it.


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    #19
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Yes and I'd be the same but there is also the possibility that you don't have the complete picture. Just keep that in mind and don't push it too hard. Sometimes it may seem that way but higher ups aren't complete idiots either. There's usually a reason.


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    #20
    I Am The Law
    Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭I Am The Law


    Ah, the familiar cry of the non unionised.


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    #21
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    I Am The Law wrote: »
    Ah, the familiar cry of the non unionised.


    Tell me, what union would intervene in the following situation.


    Boss. "I need you to do X. It might seem meaningless, but we have our reasons"


    OP. "No, I don't want to do this work as I think it's inefficient"


    Boss. "Regardless, I need this done"


    OP. "Okay, I Am The Law, I need everybody to walk out"


    IATL. "Yip. No problem, consider it done."


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    #22
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Yes and I'd be the same but there is also the possibility that you don't have the complete picture. Just keep that in mind and don't push it too hard. Sometimes it may seem that way but higher ups aren't complete idiots either. There's usually a reason.

    I wish that was true. But if often isn't.


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    #23
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    titan18 wrote: »
    Pretty sure I know the answer to this is that I have to do it, but want to see opinions anyway.

    There's a piece of work coming up where I work that I think isn't very fair to our customers, is a waste of resources for doing it and a big waste of work that I and others have done previously.

    Can I refuse to do it and argue against it on those reasons or do I have to do it if I've the time to do it?

    You do it, but you create a paper trail to cover your butt.
    Don't be negative, just document what you've been asked to do and by whom, and cc them so they see there is a paper trail. Keep a paper copy for yourself.
    Keep metrics on the resources taken up the project. Then email these as updates to appropriate chain of management.

    The risk is those above disassociate themselves from the projects and leave you with it. Especially if they are doing everything through phone and verbal instructions. So there is no trace of it.


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    #24
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,936 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    beauf wrote: »
    You do it, but you create a paper trail to cover your butt.
    Don't be negative, just document what you've been asked to do and by whom, and cc them so they see there is a paper trail. Keep a paper copy for yourself.
    Keep metrics on the resources taken up the project. Then email these as updates to appropriate chain of management.

    The risk is those above disassociate themselves from the projects and leave you with it. Especially if they are doing everything through phone and verbal instructions. So there is no trace of it.

    Now, that's what I was looking for. I like this


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    #25
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Just don't end up looking like a whinger, or negative, or unhelpful, or unproductive. Or a busy body. Too many emails is a bad thing also.

    I have one project I do a monthly summary thats about 15 bullet points as a status update. Generally emails have saved my bacon so many times, its pretty much something I do as routine now.

    I have a phone call or a meeting, I confirm everything in email afterwards. Where I feel I need to. Which is only about 5% of the time.
    But its important to know when something titanic shaped looms ahead.


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    #26
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    titan18 wrote: »
    Pretty sure I know the answer to this is that I have to do it, but want to see opinions anyway.

    There's a piece of work coming up where I work that I think isn't very fair to our customers, is a waste of resources for doing it and a big waste of work that I and others have done previously.

    Can I refuse to do it and argue against it on those reasons or do I have to do it if I've the time to do it?
    If it’s legal then no not really.


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    #27
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭screamer


    You've done the work already..... And now they're asking you to do it differently. Maybe they didn't get what was needed out of the first body of work?
    Why don't you start there to question what was that missing or lacking that warrants this new task..... But TBH you are paid to do your job, if they set this task as necessary then yes you'd have to do it.


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    #28
    Indricotherium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    beauf wrote: »
    But its important to know when something titanic shaped looms ahead.

    The Titanic famously charged at full speed into danger, it didn't loom.


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    #29
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    titan18 wrote: »
    Pretty sure I know the answer to this is that I have to do it, but want to see opinions anyway.

    There's a piece of work coming up where I work that I think isn't very fair to our customers, is a waste of resources for doing it and a big waste of work that I and others have done previously.

    Can I refuse to do it and argue against it on those reasons or do I have to do it if I've the time to do it?

    If it's reasonable, do it or be aware they can boot you there and then.

    It being against your morals is not unreasonable.


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