Head Melted - Perspective please!

Finchie1276

Hello - New Poster here - I hope the good people on here may offer some perspective on my situation.


So, I'm an intelligent guy, 43, two kids, Mortgage of 200k ish on tracker, investment property rented out and paying majority of mortgage.

I work for an Irish SME and my wife is self employed. Not crazy big spender and don't do the big holiday thing etc. We spend within our means. We are not loaded but not hand to mouth either.

Longer term situation is that my wife's family is wealthy and we will inherit assets that will leave us comfortable, kids college and savings are already sorted. (Kids 8 + 11).

My situation is that I did a Masters a few years ago - really enjoyed it (Business in TCD) and since then have worked in Sales - not managerial but in key account management. I never had huge salary nor people management experience. I am now on 38K a year for past three years, going to 41K in Sept. Commission structure and company is all over the place and deeply dis-organised which stresses me out. That said - I am really good at what I do(great feedback and results from customers) and get on great with customers and am good at getting new products off the ground and building sales on these.

The potential for career development is non existent within my current job. I went for a career coaching block of sessions and they were great - I'm being taken advantage of, can do better etc.... so I looked at a few sales roles and got on well in interviews but they either paid the same (sideways move) or required management experience (have none but work well in my team) or they require a commute to Dublin (I live 1.5 hours south of Dublin) so that will affect my work life balance but would have delivdered salary of 60K plus commission etc...

I found out today a junior colleague is on 38K salary - same as me - has done very little to show an ability to build sales. In my case I built revenues and customers from 0 to 90 in three years and revenue from 0 to 850K / 900K in three years. Im the second fastest growing salesperson in the company.

My head is melted - my wife says just relax and do the minimum (everyone else does with no reward) and enjoy life knowing that we are financially well off in the long term but I am so pissed off at lack of progress, fairness and as I see it my inability to progress.

Do I: 1. stay and learn to let it wash over me, 2. challenge for more money (boss is particularly oppressive) or 3. go and retrain and use my Masters to do Business Analysis or similar/ maybe academic?

Thank you to anyone who has read thus far and can offer advice.

Diziet

Some options to think about:
1- ask for more money - go in with a strong proposal based on your results. Don't threaten to leave unless you are prepared to carry it out. Asking for more money doesn't hurt.
2 - keep looking for other work. If Dublin is too far, then look closer.
3 - lack of people management experience is not the end of the world. If you have skills to offer, apply anyway. I am sure you have done informal management, mentoring etc.

OMM 0000

Realistically are you able to "do the minimum"? I'm not. I've tried it before, but I just can't do it. If you're the same as me (I suspect you are) you will just continue being frustrated.

> company is all over the place and deeply dis-organised which stresses me out

Personally I would use this as my opportunity to get promoted.

Can you clearly write down what the problems are and how they can be solved?

I am absolutely certain someone in senior management is aware of these problems too, and is just waiting for someone to solve them. Could you give a report to this senior manager?

Finchie1276

Diziet wrote: »

Some options to think about:
1- ask for more money - go in with a strong proposal based on your results. Don't threaten to leave unless you are prepared to carry it out. Asking for more money doesn't hurt.
2 - keep looking for other work. If Dublin is too far, then look closer.
3 - lack of people management experience is not the end of the world. If you have skills to offer, apply anyway. I am sure you have done informal management, mentoring etc.

Thanks for that.
Yes I will be asking for more money in September review. Culture in oriented to paying the minimum they can.
Looking for other work is ongoing but the issue may be that my job tho underpaid gives me a good work life balance - that said I'd prefer to be more utilised/ busier and better paid.
The people management piece is key I think - to manage is important and it is a skill I need more of if I want to climb the ladder.

Thanks for your feedback.

Finchie1276

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Realistically are you able to "do the minimum"? I'm not. I've tried it before, but I just can't do it. If you're the same as me (I suspect you are) you will just continue being frustrated.

> company is all over the place and deeply dis-organised which stresses me out

Personally I would use this as my opportunity to get promoted.

Can you clearly write down what the problems are and how they can be solved?

I am absolutely certain someone in senior management is aware of these problems too, and is just waiting for someone to solve them. Could you give a report to this senior manager?

I find doing the minimum soul destroying. I'd love to be more productive and happy to work hard but the culture is so unfocussed and everyone works to targets they cant achieve and so just 'check out'. Promotion is not possible - the company has no major growth and a very tiered structure so no move up I'm afraid. Senior Management is the issue - the culture of non engagement starts there despite the claims to the opposite - they want to do things their way or highway..

I think you are right - I should write down the issues - explore resolution and if not possible decide to stay and accept ( can you learn this?!) or move on...

THanks

Diceicle

It sounds like you have to resolve whether being on €38k for the foreseeable future (due to stagnant snr management etc) is a worthy trade-off in terms of good work/life balance.

Have a look at this video it might have some decent nuggets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3qfJeLQDoY

Lux23

Regarding roles that require management experience, would it be that much of a stretch for you? Did you get roles because of this?

Thoie

Finchie1276 wrote: »

Thanks for that.
Yes I will be asking for more money in September review. Culture in oriented to paying the minimum they can.

You're in a different area from me by the sounds of it, but something I learned last year is that the budgets for raises and stuff in my company are often set ages in advance, so asking for more money in September may be too late. If you go in to your review in Sept and they say "41" and you say "I wanted 45" they may not be able to do anything about it then. Tell them now that you're expecting X for <these reasons>, so they can't shrug in September and say "maybe next year".

Sunflower 27

Hi,

I wouldn't be holding your breath over a pay rise. It may be so small you barely notice if you do actually get one. Your employers are clearly not prepared to reward good work, so I wouldn't expect a significant rise.

In your shoes, I'd be looking for another job where you can get some management experience. Even if it is for the same money or a little less. This experience will open up many doors for you.

I couldn't just do the bare minimum either, I'd find that soul-destroying.

Not much help, but just what I'd do. I wouldn't be letting your Masters ho to waste either!

realdanbreen

Finchie1276 wrote: »

Hello - New Poster here - I hope the good people on here may offer some perspective on my situation.


So, I'm an intelligent guy, 43, two kids, Mortgage of 200k ish on tracker, investment property rented out and paying majority of mortgage.

I work for an Irish SME and my wife is self employed. Not crazy big spender and don't do the big holiday thing etc. We spend within our means. We are not loaded but not hand to mouth either.

Longer term situation is that my wife's family is wealthy and we will inherit assets that will leave us comfortable, kids college and savings are already sorted. (Kids 8 + 11).

My situation is that I did a Masters a few years ago - really enjoyed it (Business in TCD) and since then have worked in Sales - not managerial but in key account management. I never had huge salary nor people management experience. I am now on 38K a year for past three years, going to 41K in Sept. Commission structure and company is all over the place and deeply dis-organised which stresses me out. That said - I am really good at what I do(great feedback and results from customers) and get on great with customers and am good at getting new products off the ground and building sales on these.

The potential for career development is non existent within my current job. I went for a career coaching block of sessions and they were great - I'm being taken advantage of, can do better etc.... so I looked at a few sales roles and got on well in interviews but they either paid the same (sideways move) or required management experience (have none but work well in my team) or they require a commute to Dublin (I live 1.5 hours south of Dublin) so that will affect my work life balance but would have delivdered salary of 60K plus commission etc...

I found out today a junior colleague is on 38K salary - same as me - has done very little to show an ability to build sales. In my case I built revenues and customers from 0 to 90 in three years and revenue from 0 to 850K / 900K in three years. Im the second fastest growing salesperson in the company.

My head is melted - my wife says just relax and do the minimum (everyone else does with no reward) and enjoy life knowing that we are financially well off in the long term but I am so pissed off at lack of progress, fairness and as I see it my inability to progress.

Do I: 1. stay and learn to let it wash over me, 2. challenge for more money (boss is particularly oppressive) or 3. go and retrain and use my Masters to do Business Analysis or similar/ maybe academic?

Thank you to anyone who has read thus far and can offer advice.

I don't see anything in your post where you spoke with your boss about the situation?

Water John

I think that is the point the OP is making. No point in approaching an 'oppressive' boss without clarity of thinking beforehand.
The option of higher education whilst staying in the present job, for now, is a good plan I think. It's a plan with options at the end of it.

_Brian

Listen to your wife.

It’s advice I’ve never given before. But she’s actually right.

Work is a means to supply a lifestyle, if the future is really as secure as he think then live life now rather than burning yourself out.

Sunflower 27

realdanbreen wrote: »

I don't see anything in your post where you spoke with your boss about the situation?

He said he would be speaking to his employers about a rise in September.

Pelvis

Ignore the salary stuff for now OP. Ask yourself, are you happy? It sounds like you're in a pretty comfortable position in life, do you want to rock the boat? Would a better paying job in Dublin be worth the longer commute or potentially added stress and longer time away from family?

I definitely think you may need to push for more from your boss, if your sales record is as good as you say then I doubt they'd let you go over an extra 10-15k.

Personally, if I were in your position, I'd do as your wife says, do the minimum in work, get your paycheck and focus on your goals/happiness outside of work. Maybe pursue academia or learn new skills that may open up opportunities down the line?

realdanbreen

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

He said he would be speaking to his employers about a rise in September.

He didn't actually. He said he will be getting a 3k increase in September which apparently is less than he wants.
His boss may well be 'oppressive' but if he doesn't speak to him about his concerns then he's wasting his time.

gct

_Brian wrote: »

Listen to your wife.

It’s advice I’ve never given before. But she’s actually right.

Work is a means to supply a lifestyle, if the future is really as secure as he think then live life now rather than burning yourself out.

Totally agree with this. Why stress Yourself out. You are lucky enough to be in a position where You don't have to. I know what My choice would be!

realdanbreen

Going by his age, 43, it's likely that the wealthy in laws have another 20+ years left in them so it's a bit desperate to be holding out for their dosh.

Sunflower 27

realdanbreen wrote: »

He didn't actually. He said he will be getting a 3k increase in September which apparently is less than he wants.
His boss may well be 'oppressive' but if he doesn't speak to him about his concerns then he's wasting his time.

He did, actually. He states quite clearly he will be speaking to them in September at his review. That seems pretty clear to me. If he was to ask about money now, he is likely to be told that review time is when that is up for discussion.

realdanbreen

You are correct, I was only looking at his OP.

Finchie1276

I'm sorry I never got to say thanks for all the feedback on my query - it was really useful.

Finchie1276

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Hi,

I wouldn't be holding your breath over a pay rise. It may be so small you barely notice if you do actually get one. Your employers are clearly not prepared to reward good work, so I wouldn't expect a significant rise.

In your shoes, I'd be looking for another job where you can get some management experience. Even if it is for the same money or a little less. This experience will open up many doors for you.

I couldn't just do the bare minimum either, I'd find that soul-destroying.

Not much help, but just what I'd do. I wouldn't be letting your Masters ho to waste either!

A late thanks but thanks no less! I found a job, better structure, a little less money but better options to manage & a fairer company. Thanks for your insight - I really was happy with all the feedback.

Finchie1276

realdanbreen wrote: »

I don't see anything in your post where you spoke with your boss about the situation?

I did, last year. To feel out what they might say. Always resistant to raising pay and rewarding work/ results. THats fine at this point as I am leaving shortly but I did take time to explore with both CEO & Sales Manager. Both to no avail.