CVRT and motor tax arrears

zurbfoundation

Quick query on Motor Tax Arrears - if you purchase a vehicle with no CVRT, you cannot tax the vehicle until you pass the CVRT. If the vehicle is not declared off the road, and over the period of time until you pass the CVRT, should you be liable for the motor tax of the interim period when you do eventually pass the CVRT. If it had no CVRT, and you were not able to tax it because of this, it was not on the road (in this case, genuinely was not being driven).

colm_mcm

CVRT or not, I think it’s reasonable to say you’re liable for the tax unless you declare it off the road.

zurbfoundation

colm_mcm wrote: »

CVRT or not, I think it’s reasonable to say you’re liable for the tax unless you declare it off the road.

True. My point being are you liable for tax that there is no mechanism to pay?

U can tax a car with no nct. But commercial/camper etc? If no test you can't tax.

extra-ordinary_

zurbfoundation wrote: »

True. My point being are you liable for tax that there is no mechanism to pay?

U can tax a car with no nct. But commercial/camper etc? If no test you can't tax.

It's not about whether the vehicle has a test or not...it's whether it's declared off the road or not. If not declared you're liable for tax.

zurbfoundation

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

It's not about whether the vehicle has a test or not...it's whether it's declared off the road or not. If not declared you're liable for tax.

yeah thats the bottom line I guess.


How can you check a vehicle has been declared of road or not?

grogi

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

It's not about whether the vehicle has a test or not...it's whether it's declared off the road or not. If not declared you're liable for tax.

Yes. But even if you want to lawfully pay the tax due, you can't.

ohnonotgmail

grogi wrote: »

Yes. But even if you want to lawfully pay the tax due, you can't.

there is no way to lawfully pay the tax due. you cant tax an unroadworthy vehicle.

grogi

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there is no way to lawfully pay the tax due. you cant tax an unroadworthy vehicle.

Yet you still owe the tax.

zurbfoundation

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there is no way to lawfully pay the tax due. you cant tax an unroadworthy vehicle.

The purpose of motor tax is taxation for the privilege of the use of a vehicle on public roads.

If it has not been proven roadworthy, and until it is, the tax cannot be collected.

However it also can't be used on the roads in this time period.

So although the liability is not disputable in this case, it is a real chicken and egg situation.

ohnonotgmail

grogi wrote: »

Yet you still owe the tax.

If you dont declare it off the road this is true. If the car is not roadworthy declare it off the road.

ohnonotgmail

zurbfoundation wrote: »

The purpose of motor tax is taxation for the privilege of the use of a vehicle on public roads.

If it has not been proven roadworthy, and until it is, the tax cannot be collected.

However it also can't be used on the roads in this time period.

So although the liability is not disputable in this case, it is a real chicken and egg situation.

well not quite. you can either declare it off the road or make it roadworthy.

zurbfoundation

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If you dont declare it off the road this is true. If the car is not roadworthy declare it off the road.

CVRT so not a car - if it was a car, you could tax it with no NCT. Since its CVRT you cannot. This is the point.


Declare off road while not roadworthy - yes. However this wasn't done at that point in time. So taxes are liable.


However - the point remains - if not declared off the road, you can't tax it without a CVRT (i tried at the time, not knowing it was not declared off road)


Now with a valid CVRT in place I can tax it (and happily contribute last two years Motor Tax to the Exchequer while vehicle was sat up)


Anyone know if you can check on or off road status at any point for a vehicle?

Del2005

zurbfoundation wrote: »

CVRT so not a car - if it was a car, you could tax it with no NCT. Since its CVRT you cannot. This is the point.


Declare off road while not roadworthy - yes. However this wasn't done at that point in time. So taxes are liable.


However - the point remains - if not declared off the road, you can't tax it without a CVRT (i tried at the time, not knowing it was not declared off road)


Now with a valid CVRT in place I can tax it (and happily contribute last two years Motor Tax to the Exchequer while vehicle was sat up)


Anyone know if you can check on or off road status at any point for a vehicle?

Why don't you just sell it and buy it back to save 2 years back tax now it's road worthy?

redfacedbear

You can tax a vehicle subject to a CVRT at the private rate without it having a test on it. So if you really wanted to tax it before testing, you can.

Isambard

redfacedbear wrote: »

You can tax a vehicle subject to a CVRT at the private rate without it having a test on it. So if you really wanted to tax it before testing, you can.

no you can't. You cannot tax a commercial including a camper without a CVRT. Mine is taxed at the classic rate , which is a Private rate, and you have to have a CVRT. It's the vehicle type that matters here not the taxation class.

Isambard

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there is no way to lawfully pay the tax due. you cant tax an unroadworthy vehicle.

there is no tax due until the registered owner puts it back on the road and pays the tax, arrears are then calculated. If the ownership changes, the clock restarts from the first of the month of purchase by the new owner. Sell it to your Wife or similar, buy it back once it's taxed.

redfacedbear

Isambard wrote: »

no you can't. You cannot tax a commercial including a camper without a CVRT. Mine is taxed at the classic rate , which is a Private rate, and you have to have a CVRT. It's the vehicle type that matters here not the taxation class.

A camper (M class) is not a commercial (N class), classic (Vintage) is not private rate. You can tax an N1 vehicle at the private rate (based on CC) without it having a test on it.

zurbfoundation

Isambard wrote: »

there is no tax due until the registered owner puts it back on the road and pays the tax, arrears are then calculated. If the ownership changes, the clock restarts from the first of the month of purchase by the new owner. Sell it to your Wife or similar, buy it back once it's taxed.

I understand this, I would also think its at least mildly fraudulent.

I also understand the liability as the vehicle was not in actual fact declared off the road regardless of what i thought.

However, my original point remains.

Scenario :

Gov : You owe me this tax.
Me : Ok here you go.
Gov : Hang on, I can't let you pay this utill you jump through a few hoops.
Me : Awwww, please take my money?

I can recall when the NCT lads went on strike and the link between taxing a car and having a valid NCT was broken, they couldn't insist on an NCT to tax a car if you couldn't go and test the car. That must be a good 15 years ago? Been heaps of changes in this area since and still no enforcement of having test to have tax has been re-introduced. I wish a system was in place to have all 3 tax, insurance and test in place before you can put something on the road. I guess my questions and bemusement stem from the inconsistencies that exist in whole area.

Anyway, think we have exhausted this topic for now. Lock it up mods.

Isambard

redfacedbear wrote: »

A camper (M class) is not a commercial (N class), classic (Vintage) is not private rate. You can tax an N1 vehicle at the private rate (based on CC) without it having a test on it.

the RSA say

"A vehicle outside category M1 must take the commercial vehicle test (CVT), meaning that it has to be tested every year from the date of purchase. This is true even if your vehicle is taxed as a private vehicle."

It doesn't say you can or can't tax it without the CVRT, but it's obvious you can't legally do it even if the Motor Tax office let it thorough

Isambard

zurbfoundation wrote: »

I understand this, I would also think its at least mildly fraudulent.

I also understand the liability as the vehicle was not in actual fact declared off the road regardless of what i thought.

However, my original point remains.

Scenario :

Gov : You owe me this tax.
Me : Ok here you go.
Gov : Hang on, I can't let you pay this utill you jump through a few hoops.
Me : Awwww, please take my money?

I can recall when the NCT lads went on strike and the link between taxing a car and having a valid NCT was broken, they couldn't insist on an NCT to tax a car if you couldn't go and test the car. That must be a good 15 years ago? Been heaps of changes in this area since and still no enforcement of having test to have tax has been re-introduced. I wish a system was in place to have all 3 tax, insurance and test in place before you can put something on the road. I guess my questions and bemusement stem from the inconsistencies that exist in whole area.

Anyway, think we have exhausted this topic for now. Lock it up mods.

It's not in the slightest fraudulent, it's what they'll tell you to do in the motor tax office. If they want to dilute the Law by leaving loopholes, then people will use it to their advantage and why not!

redfacedbear

Isambard wrote: »

the RSA say

"A vehicle outside category M1 must take the commercial vehicle test (CVT), meaning that it has to be tested every year from the date of purchase. This is true even if your vehicle is taxed as a private vehicle."

It doesn't say you can or can't tax it without the CVRT, but it's obvious you can't legally do it even if the Motor Tax office let it thorough

Legally, you need the test to be on the road, sure - but I was talking about taxing it, not being on the road :pac: