The future of livestock marts

Albert Johnson

With the recent safety issues, insurance premium hikes and ever decreasing drystock numbers how do people see the future of the marts?

I think marts are still an integral part of the livestock industry especially in the drystock strongholds of the west. However i also believe that amalgamation and restructuring will have to occur to meet the changing demands of the industry amid competition from the likes of donedeal and livestock.ie.

What are people's views on the best way forward to address issues of safety and convenience as well as practicality? My father grew up in the era of fairs and selling off the land. The arrival of the mart heralded the end of this way of trading in a few short years.

To summarise is the livestock mart going the way of the fairs of old in favour of more convenient internet based sites or have they still a vital role to play.

patsy_mccabe

They need to switch to Saturday. Most livestock farmers now work off farm. Crazy to be taking a day off just to go to the mart.

Albert Johnson

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

They need to switch to Saturday. Most livestock farmers now work off farm. Crazy to be taking a day off just to go to the mart.

Saturday sales seem to be fairly popular at least in the North West. I agree that day sales are an inconvenience to the majority of younger part time farmers.

However I don't think it's feasible to hold all sales on Saturdays from the viewpoint of major buyers more than sellers. I think that evening sales are becoming more popular for this reason. It gives more opportunity to part timers while spreading out the workload of dedicated mart attendees.

Evening sales can struggle with larger numbers tho as it usually means sales dragging into the small hours. This can prove an issue to older people who were used to doing there business during the day and retiring for the night at a reasonable hour

ganmo

I’d say the best way to do evening marts would be to limit lots

Albert Johnson

Limiting lots wouldn't have been something I would have thought of but it could be a possibility. I would find it hard to imagine many mart managers turning away stock and possible commission.

What time would people think best for evening sales to start? Would 6'oclock be to early for lads to be finished work and have stock penned? Having stock penned and available for viewing is more of an issue since the public were banned out of many mart yards.The days of arriving with stock halfway through a sale are numbered in many marts

blue5000

I think the way forward is some sort of on-line auction, with the cattle not transferred until seller is happy with payment. Not sure how the logistics will work.

Muckit

I think lads are running away with themselvss. Realistically how many times a year would lads be selling weanlings? Tis the dealers that are there eveey week that will be suited. Foolish to think otherwise.

Albert Johnson

blue5000 wrote: »

I think the way forward is some sort of on-line auction, with the cattle not transferred until seller is happy with payment. Not sure how the logistics will work.

Yes a mart for the modern era as it were. The workings of it would be a stumbling block but not outside the realms of possibility.

Albert Johnson

Muckit wrote: »

I think lads are running away with themselvss. Realistically how many times a year would lads be selling weanlings? Tis the dealers that are there eveey week that will be suited. Foolish to think otherwise.

I think the marts offer a reasonable service at the moment i was just curious to lads opinions on where the service could be improved.

I'm not interested in a dealer bashing thread which is what all mart related threads seem to finish in. I also don't understand the dislike towards dealers many lads seem to harbour. Yes their are both good and bad but that translates to every industry and it's up to everyone to mind their own interests. Making money in any walk of life is hardly a criminal offence.

grassroot1

I dont like the evening sales to be honest. If you have to travel any distance cattle could be penned for 8 hours or more. It can take a good bit out of a weanling before sale. The day is gone anyway even if the sale is at 4 o clock.


I would expect for farmers who attend marts should have an awareness around stock and should be able to avoid trouble. To allow farmers to buy stock they cannot be banned from the yard over a few incidents. That said the HSA will probably be the ones calling the shots shortly.

An online bidding system needs to be put in place to ensure the future of the marts and to help farmers with a 9 to 5 job.

tanko

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I think the marts offer a reasonable service at the moment i was just curious to lads opinions on where the service could be improved.

I'm not interested in a dealer bashing thread which is what all mart related threads seem to finish in. I also don't understand the dislike towards dealers many lads seem to harbour. Yes their are both good and bad but that translates to every industry and it's up to everyone to mind their own interests. Making money in any walk of life is hardly a criminal offence.

True, farmers have to mind their own interests also.
Nothing wrong with dealers making money honestly. Its when the auctioneer and dealer are working together to sell an animal for less than its true value problems arise.

wrangler

grassroot1 wrote: »

I dont like the evening sales to be honest. If you have to travel any distance cattle could be penned for 8 hours or more. It can take a good bit out of a weanling before sale. The day is gone anyway even if the sale is at 4 o clock.


I would expect for farmers who attend marts should have an awareness around stock and should be able to avoid trouble. To allow farmers to buy stock they cannot be banned from the yard over a few incidents. That said the HSA will probably be the ones calling the shots shortly.

An online bidding system needs to be put in place to ensure the future of the marts and to help farmers with a 9 to 5 job.

It'll be the insurance companies that'll call the shots in the mart as to how farmers behave, they'll not insure marts that allow people through the cattle.
It's bad enough being killed but what's the risk of a broken neck and an x million euro claim.
Likewise agriculture shows, compensation cases have them nearly impossible to pay their insurance.
Insurance companies have no problem covering risk but at what price

Albert Johnson

grassroot1 wrote: »

I dont like the evening sales to be honest. If you have to travel any distance cattle could be penned for 8 hours or more. It can take a good bit out of a weanling before sale. The day is gone anyway even if the sale is at 4 o clock.


I would expect for farmers who attend marts should have an awareness around stock and should be able to avoid trouble. To allow farmers to buy stock they cannot be banned from the yard over a few incidents. That said the HSA will probably be the ones calling the shots shortly.

An online bidding system needs to be put in place to ensure the future of the marts and to help farmers with a 9 to 5 job.

In a big sale an animal would be penned for hours regardless of the start time and i agree it does hit younger animals harder but it's hard to negotiate that issue. Perhaps allocating what time to arrive depending on lot numbers. However that complicates the process compared to having cattle penned before the sale.

I also agree that self preservation is ultimately down to the individual. People should look out for themselves but accidents do happen and with a high percentage of elderly clients the risk is ever increasing. Banning people from the yard is not an ideal situation in my opinion but i understand the reasons behind it.

An online bidding facility is one possibility. I regularly watch the live stream of sales on farmers forum but I would be hesitant to purchase cattle in this way. It's hard to assess a beast on a few seconds of grainy footage.

Albert Johnson

tanko wrote: »

True, farmers have to mind their own interests also.
Nothing wrong with dealers making money honestly. Its when the auctioneer and dealer are working together to sell an animal for less than its true value problems arise.

I rarely encounter this behaviour and i wonder of it's as widespread as it's made out to be. Knowing the value of your stock and having an idea of what you have to receive is an art in it's self.

Lots of lads send stock on a one way ticket due to work commitments and so on. Into the box, a hard try and ultimately hammer them at whatever price. It's not hard to take advantage of lads like that. I know it shouldn't happen but if your naive in any walk of life you'll get rode!

Sheep breeder

The private owned marts are trying to improve a lot of the time, one mart we go to has a system of lots and time to the ring by text and no need for cattle to be there for hours, some marts we go to in the west start cattle off at 300 euros below the selling price and spend 5 to 6 minutes selling an animal and take all night to sell a few cattle.

grassroot1

An online bidding facility is one possibility. I regularly watch the live stream of sales on farmers forum but I would be hesitant to purchase cattle in this way. It's hard to assess a beast on a few seconds of grainy footage.[/QUOTE]

The way I would see it the vendors and the stock for sale (including pictures) are advertised before the sale. A time for viewing on farm is given by the vendor.
Auction takes place at set time and date. Online banking both sides and stock delivered to the buyers farm after sale.There is probably not even a need for the cattle to go to the mart if they can be weighed on farm. Lower insurance, lower disease risk and time saved both sides.

tractorporn

grassroot1 wrote:

The way I would see it the vendors and the stock for sale (including pictures) are advertised before the sale. A time for viewing on farm is given by the vendor. Auction takes place at set time and date. Online banking both sides and stock delivered to the buyers farm after sale.There is probably not even a need for the cattle to go to the mart if they can be weighed on farm. Lower insurance, lower disease risk and time saved both sides.

Surely if you visit a farm to view an animal you would just buy it there and then? Without the messing of an online auction?

Albert Johnson

Sheep breeder wrote: »

The private owned marts are trying to improve a lot of the time, one mart we go to has a system of lots and time to the ring by text and no need for cattle to be there for hours, some marts we go to in the west start cattle off at 300 euros below the selling price and spend 5 to 6 minutes selling an animal and take all night to sell a few cattle.

One of the local marts does this during bigger sales. It would definetly be easier on the stock and save sellers valuable time. However it means extra staff needed to read and pen the incoming cattle while the sale is ongoing. Also in marts that only allow a designated viewing time before the sale it would mean that buyers would only see cattle in the ring.

On the issue of opening cattle to low that's as much an auctioneer problem as it is to do with dealers. Having an experienced auctioneer cuts out a lot of these problems. In one of the marts i attend the auctioneer opens cows at hundreds below there value. Another more dedicated cow mart and the auctioneer will rarely open more than €150 below the value. It takes the first auctioneer as long to sell 25 cows as the second one sells 100.

kay 9

I think buying and selling at home is handy for the part timer like me, much more convenient, no excitement or stressed out animals and men/women.
Less chance of disease transfer like ringworm or orf.
Personally I hate marts, can't wait to get the business out of the way and get home.
There's usually a whole day gone between loading and waiting around.
I'd be as happy sell at home a bit cheaper per head and get on with something more productive.

Ps, just to add, most farmers or decent stockmen are rarely any further out than 20-30 yoyos on an animal.
It's easier refuse at home than have to load up at a mart and go home again on a bad day

grassroot1

tractorporn wrote: »

Surely if you visit a farm to view an animal you would just buy it there and then? Without the messing of an online auction?

Perhaps but why would you sell, the value of an auction for the seller is the buyers are competing against each other. The live auction is still the best way to determine the price of an animal.

Albert Johnson

kay 9 wrote: »

I think buying and selling at home is handy for the part timer like me, much more convenient, no excitement or stressed out animals and men/women.
Less chance of disease transfer like ringworm or orf.
Personally I hate marts, can't wait to get the business out of the way and get home.
There's usually a whole day gone between loading and waiting around.
I'd be as happy sell at home a bit cheaper per head and get on with something more productive.

Ps, just to add, most farmers or decent stockmen are rarely any further out than 20-30 yoyos on an animal.
It's easier refuse at home than have to load up at a mart and go home again on a bad day

Selling off the land definelty has it's advantages but i still think the mart has lots to offer farmers. A wider array of buyers and guaranteed payments are of utmost importance.

I personally enjoy the mart experience. Outside of CAP payments its often the only other farming based income many drystock farmers receive and therefore I never viewed going to the mart as a chore but each to their own.

Lastly i think a lot of part time lads in particular would be lots more than €20-30 out on the price of an animal. Without the mart to set the bar it would be difficult to price any beast in my opinion.

patsy_mccabe

How do you estimate the true market value of a store animal if you neither weigh the animal or go to the mart to know the current trade.

Donegalforever

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

They need to switch to Saturday. Most livestock farmers now work off farm. Crazy to be taking a day off just to go to the mart.

You have a good point.
In my area it is amazing the amount of extra potential buyers are at the Mart on a Bank Holiday.

L1985

Our local one is on a Saturday and TBH I don't know how I'd cope if it wasn't!! It would be v busy and there would be a lot of part timers there. They aren't the strictest with the pens but I'd say all of that will change soon as a claim went in a few months ago.

Albert Johnson

In my area it is amazing the amount of extra potential buyers are at the Mart on a Bank Holiday.[/quote]

Bank holiday sales are usually packed but they only work with marts that have a regular sale on each Monday. Most regular buyer's have a routine and it's hard to get lads to come to a one off sale. It doesn't matter how convenient a sale is if it doesn't have the customers. This is why I believe that more night sales are needed. The western marts seem to be ahead in this aspect.

Some lads don't like the marts and will find attending a chore regardless of day or time. However the option to sell off the land or send with a local haulier is a possible solution.