Cows repeating

john mayo 10

Most of the cows we have ai'd this year have repeated 3 weeks later. Its a bloody nightmare. Anyone having the same issues

whelan2

Do you vaccinate for lepto?

patsy_mccabe

With what and when do you vaccinate? Also is there a test for it?

whelan2

Bloods will tell you. We do with spirovac, lepto void not available this year.

TITANIUM.

whelan2 wrote: »

Bloods will tell you. We do with spirovac, lepto void not available this year.

I got lepovoid H last month in the local vets. Lepto is a right pain in the area if your affected by it.

Angus2018

Bad Autumn, early Winter, blizzard, late Spring and no a drought.

Its been very hard on the animals and everyone is going to have to prepare for a cows not holding and a prolonged calving season to allow time for repeats.

What kind of licks have they access to? I find the Fertility Booster lick very good.

cacs

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Most of the cows we have ai'd this year have repeated 3 weeks later. Its a bloody nightmare. Anyone having the same issues

If I was in that position I would blood test and if want to get things moving straight away bolus all with high selenium copper bolus like cosecure. Then start Vacine for ibr & lepto. I had a problem with lepto a few years a ago my vet told me to lepto vacine. I think 30 ml of strepomicen on day one one then then another 30ml again on day two I think. This was done to kill the infection which lives in kidneys then lepto vacine on 4-6 weeks and lepto vacine every year. No problem since everything was done including the bull.
Run this by your own vet to be sure

DaDerv

I've had wicked trouble with AI as well. AI'd 7 Angus cows to YHW, 5 of them broke. I let them out to the CH bull since and none repeated. I have just finished 7 heifers to EBY so will be interested to see how they go. I have fertility licks out with them but didn't vaccinate for anything yet.

I personally think AIing is very hit and miss. Easy to blame timing (AM-PM rule) or bloods or vaccinations. Maybe I'm being cynical but there is a lot of money to be made in repeats. The bull is easy calving so I'll be letting the heifers out with him as well instead of chancing any more repeats.

Donegalforever

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Most of the cows we have ai'd this year have repeated 3 weeks later. Its a bloody nightmare. Anyone having the same issues

It might be worth your while getting all, or some, of the cows blood tested or at least have a word with your vet if you havn't already done so.



Another suggestion would be to give each cow bosuses to make available copper. cobalt, selenium and iodine.


I give each of my cows two Cosicure Bolus and they seem to work. I also inject against Lepto and BVD as a precaution.

simx

DaDerv wrote: »

I've had wicked trouble with AI as well. AI'd 7 Angus cows to YHW, 5 of them broke. I let them out to the CH bull since and none repeated. I have just finished 7 heifers to EBY so will be interested to see how they go. I have fertility licks out with them but didn't vaccinate for anything yet.

I personally think AIing is very hit and miss. Easy to blame timing (AM-PM rule) or bloods or vaccinations. Maybe I'm being cynical but there is a lot of money to be made in repeats. The bull is easy calving so I'll be letting the heifers out with him as well instead of chancing any more repeats.

V little money to Ben made in repeats to be honest, know plenty lads that ai once a day and get on very well and some be very fresh might only be bulling that morning and then some from previous evening, know several lads didn't have bulls in donkey years and no prob with ai, they come around after the bull too

Donegalforever

simx wrote: »

V little money to Ben made in repeats to be honest, know plenty lads that ai once a day and get on very well and some be very fresh might only be bulling that morning and then some from previous evening, know several lads didn't have bulls in donkey years and no prob with ai, they come around after the bull too

Some AI inseminators are a lot better than others.

At least that has been my experience.
One individual operator has a lot of repeats; whether that is because he is useless at the job or it is for the reasons given by you above ??

charolais0153

If cow is in proper bcs amd comes naturally in heattgen she Will seldom repeat. 70%conception rates are very achievable

whelan2

Donegalforever wrote: »

Some AI inseminators are a lot better than others.

At least that has been my experience.
One individual operator has a lot of repeats; whether that is because he is useless at the job or it is for the reasons given by you above ??

All ai inseminators are monitored if one is having more repeats than others it is investigated. We only ai here in the morning. Last person I'd blame for repeats would be the ai man

dar31

whelan2 wrote: »

All ai inseminators are monitored if one is having more repeats than others it is investigated. We only ai here in the morning. Last person I'd blame for repeats would be the ai man

Very true, ai man would be last in line to fault. It's easier to blame some one else.
I had a problem last year, turned out to be the bull/straws that were at fault. When we looked at the ai man he was averaging 56% conception to serve. But when we looked at specific bulls, the best bull had a 68% conception rate and the one we had trouble had a 0% conception rate.

DaDerv

dar31 wrote: »

Very true, ai man would be last in line to fault. It's easier to blame some one else.
I had a problem last year, turned out to be the bull/straws that were at fault. When we looked at the ai man he was averaging 56% conception to serve. But when we looked at specific bulls, the best bull had a 68% conception rate and the one we had trouble had a 0% conception rate.

But who should foot the blame for that then?

If I was providing a faulty service at work, albeit I'm just a foot on the ground similar to an AI man, I'd hear the complaints so i don't believe they should be completely disregarded here. Should the AI man not take a certain amount of responsibility? Seeing as he is providing goods should he not ensure they are "working" at least? Basically they are faulty but farmers have zero come back on that.

I reckon if I was only doing 56% of my work right id be out the gap as well!! I've a relatively small herd of 30 cows. 2 of those are a first calver and second that were both AI'd and didn't take. Because of repeats my calving season still technically hasn't ended and its a disaster. Of course the other option was to sell and make a loss on a potentially good cow. Farmer gets screwed every way but cant blame anyone else!!

simx

DaDerv wrote: »

But who should foot the blame for that then?

If I was providing a faulty service at work, albeit I'm just a foot on the ground similar to an AI man, I'd hear the complaints so i don't believe they should be completely disregarded here. Should the AI man not take a certain amount of responsibility? Seeing as he is providing goods should he not ensure they are "working" at least? Basically they are faulty but farmers have zero come back on that.

I reckon if I was only doing 56% of my work right id be out the gap as well!! I've a relatively small herd of 30 cows. 2 of those are a first calver and second that were both AI'd and didn't take. Because of repeats my calving season still technically hasn't ended and its a disaster. Of course the other option was to sell and make a loss on a potentially good cow. Farmer gets screwed every way but cant blame anyone else!!

Who's to say if you had a bull them two would of held? There's so many variables at the time, bcs, post calving time, heat detection, stress levels, it's not rocket science to ai cows tbh, you can come across a few awkward ones to do but a few more seconds or a minute and you'll get her done, most lads blame the ai man first, know of one particular man this year having serious % repeats, like 60-70% repeated and last year 70% held to first service, same man ai'ing them, some other problem- this man would be top operator imo, what's your % hold to first serve?

dar31

DaDerv wrote: »

But who should foot the blame for that then?

If I was providing a faulty service at work, albeit I'm just a foot on the ground similar to an AI man, I'd hear the complaints so i don't believe they should be completely disregarded here. Should the AI man not take a certain amount of responsibility? Seeing as he is providing goods should he not ensure they are "working" at least? Basically they are faulty but farmers have zero come back on that.

I reckon if I was only doing 56% of my work right id be out the gap as well!! I've a relatively small herd of 30 cows. 2 of those are a first calver and second that were both AI'd and didn't take. Because of repeats my calving season still technically hasn't ended and its a disaster. Of course the other option was to sell and make a loss on a potentially good cow. Farmer gets screwed every way but cant blame anyone else!!

Your ai man is providing a service, it is the Ai company that is providing the goods and it is on them to ensure the goods are working.

I would consider 60% v good and 70% exception as a conception to 1st serve. The cow and the ai straw play a bigger part than the ai man.

In my case I just pay the technician an "arm service" i have my own flask and straws from different companies in it

tanko

Whe you say 60%, do you mean that 60% of inseminations carried out result in a pregnancy?

DaDerv

simx wrote: »

Who's to say if you had a bull them two would of held? There's so many variables at the time, bcs, post calving time, heat detection, stress levels, it's not rocket science to ai cows tbh, you can come across a few awkward ones to do but a few more seconds or a minute and you'll get her done, most lads blame the ai man first, know of one particular man this year having serious % repeats, like 60-70% repeated and last year 70% held to first service, same man ai'ing them, some other problem- this man would be top operator imo, what's your % hold to first serve?

Well in the case of the 7 Angus cows that i AI'd with YHW 5 of 7 broke. So thats like 30%. I let these out with the rest of the cows and the bull after AI and he bulled them and they have kept since then. 1 will be watched for repeat next week alright. This was experimental on my behalf. I generally don't AI cows, just 1st calvers or heifers out of my own bull. The Angus and Charlois don't mix too well in my opinion so i said id try it out.

Overall i wouldn't know the exact percentage but it would be interesting to see. The first of 7 heifers i did are due for repeat in the coming days so i'll see how that goes.

DaDerv

dar31 wrote: »

Your ai man is providing a service, it is the Ai company that is providing the goods and it is on them to ensure the goods are working.

I would consider 60% v good and 70% exception as a conception to 1st serve. The cow and the ai straw play a bigger part than the ai man.

In my case I just pay the technician an "arm service" i have my own flask and straws from different companies in it

I understand that and I actually get on very well with my AI man! In my case he actually works for Dovea and provides the straws so that would sort of increase his liability if anything!

AI is a coin flip really if 60% is considered very good. I acknowledge the fact that there are variables earlier on, but I'm still skeptical about figures of 50-60% being considered acceptable. If you get unlucky two or three times for instance, like i did last year, it throws off your calving by the best part of 3 months.

I suppose its a gamble you have to take or else you'd be gambling on a heifer with a bull that wouldn't be as easy calving as a Limousin and you'd run into trouble there.

simx

DaDerv wrote: »

Well in the case of the 7 Angus cows that i AI'd with YHW 5 of 7 broke. So thats like 30%. I let these out with the rest of the cows and the bull after AI and he bulled them and they have kept since then. 1 will be watched for repeat next week alright. This was experimental on my behalf. I generally don't AI cows, just 1st calvers or heifers out of my own bull. The Angus and Charlois don't mix too well in my opinion so i said id try it out.

Overall i wouldn't know the exact percentage but it would be interesting to see. The first of 7 heifers i did are due for repeat in the coming days so i'll see how that goes.

Any of them hold cleanings or need any assistance calving? ThAt would be another variable to be considered, how's you didn't ai them the second time? There's nothing to say they'd repeat after that time or if let to the bull the first time wouldn't have the same result, I am an ai man if you're wondering why I'm backing up so much ai, best lad in my discussion group hasn't had a bull in 50 odd years and has a good 6 week calving rate think he's a good example of ai being used

Donegalforever

whelan2 wrote: »

All ai inseminators are monitored if one is having more repeats than others it is investigated. We only ai here in the morning. Last person I'd blame for repeats would be the ai man

When a particular AI man has a reputation for a lot of repeats (and where you have personal knowledge of this also), in my book it is time to find another AI inseminator.

grassroot1

I understood that 60% conception rate was the average for both AI and natural service?

john mayo 10

Phone was out of action all week so couldn't respond to replies. Being chatting to a few local farmers and they are all experiencing a lot of repeats. This is both with Ai and with the bull. Obviously the long winter has taken its effect on cattle. Will get bloods done all the same

Angus2018

Heifer was in heat the other evening and the bull wasn't interested cause of the heat. If it wasn't for her tail up I wouldn't have known she was in heat or had been served. You know it's bad sign when a young bull is having trouble and gives up to lay down.

Hard Knocks

Angus2018 wrote: »

Heifer was in heat the other evening and the bull wasn't interested cause of the heat. If it wasn't for her tail up I wouldn't have known she was in heat or had been served. You know it's bad sign when a young bull is having trouble and gives up to lay down.

Would he get her in the cool of the evening

charolais0153

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Would he get her in the cool of the evening

A bull is only going to do it once and wont bother following around after her in this heat

Angus2018

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Would he get her in the cool of the evening

The tail up and pointed out locked at 30 degrees is a sign that he got her. I'm not seeing much activity in the evening either since they are so drained from the hot day.

john mayo 10

Got blood results back today. Bloody fecking lepto. Never had it before.

cacs

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Got blood results back today. Bloody fecking lepto. Never had it before.

Talk to your vet. There is no point just vaccinating them. You have the infection. You now need to kill it and vaccinate again to protect against it.

john mayo 10

cathal irwin wrote: »

Talk to your vet. There is no point just vaccinating them. You have the infection. You now need to kill it and vaccinate again to protect against it.

Was chatting to her today. As you said I have to kill it now and vaccinate early next year to prevent it again. Cows that repeat again will have to go and be replaced. Will know next week as they will be 3 weeks bulled then. They will be late enough calving next year if they don't break as it is.

cacs

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Was chatting to her today. As you said I have to kill it now and vaccinate early next year to prevent it again. Cows that repeat again will have to go and be replaced. Will know next week as they will be 3 weeks bulled then. They will be late enough calving next year if they don't break as it is.

I had a bad year aswell with cows and heifers repeating. Some have there own problems some it could be lepto or copper not honestly sure. My vet told me to treat any new purchase like it has lepto. I cant remember was it two rounds of pen strip or streptomycin and the vacinate.

john mayo 10

cathal irwin wrote: »

I had a bad year aswell with cows and heifers repeating. Some have there own problems some it could be lepto or copper not honestly sure. My vet told me to treat any new purchase like it has lepto. I cant remember was it two rounds of pen strip or streptomycin and the vacinate.

Thanks probably a good rule of thumb to treat every new purchase like it has lepto. I think anything that repeats from now on is to be fattened and killed. Buy in replacements that are calving early next year. Not much point having a bunch of may or June calf's next year

148multi

cathal irwin wrote: »

I had a bad year aswell with cows and heifers repeating. Some have there own problems some it could be lepto or copper not honestly sure. My vet told me to treat any new purchase like it has lepto. I cant remember was it two rounds of pen strip or streptomycin and the vacinate.

Apologies for high jacking the thread.
How did the calves of winsler turn out so far, am interested.

cacs

148multi wrote: »

Apologies for high jacking the thread.
How did the calves of winsler turn out so far, am interested.

Honestly I wasn’t happy with her but she is a big heifer not huge shape but hopefully she will have milk.

charolais0153

cathal irwin wrote: »

Honestly I wasn’t happy with her but she is a big heifer not huge shape but hopefully she will have milk.

Is that the one on the left? Onr on right is a real nice type of cow. Easy kept

TPF2012

charolais0153 wrote:

Is that the one on the left? Onr on right is a real nice type of cow. Easy kept

One on left has great length to her.

cacs

charolais0153 wrote: »

Is that the one on the left? Onr on right is a real nice type of cow. Easy kept

Yea the cow. I dont have to look at her from one end of the year to the next. calfs herself rears the calf well. Calfs 365 days. We have better cows, but they take a lot more minding than her

cacs

TPF2012 wrote: »

One on left has great length to her.

Yea there is great length and height to her. When i looked at her today i was surprised how well she done. I will be bulling her next may/june all going to plan.

TPF2012

cathal irwin wrote:

Yea there is great length and height to her. When i looked at her today i was surprised how well she done. I will be bulling her next may/june all going to plan.

What breeding is in her?

cacs

TPF2012 wrote: »

What breeding is in her?

I wanted to bring milk back in so i gave three cows German Dairy Flechvieh straws winsler. I got one heifer. She will be big. Got the straws from Tony O Leary in Sea View Simmental's. IT was worth a shot. Cross her back with a well Shaped Lim and it could be a good cross