Planning Condition for Manual sliding gate

mrsWhippy

Hi,

One of my planning conditions stipulates that we must install a manual sliding gate and not an electric one. The justification of this is that the entrance way to our house crosses a footpath and cycle track and having to wait while an automated gate opens may cause a hazard (lets not mention that I'd have to stop the car and get out and manually open a gate instead)

Anyway - we're now faced with the task of sourcing a manual sliding gate, approx 3.6m wide. There will also be an older lady (70+) who will need to be able to open and close the gate easily so weight will be a huge issue.

Can anyone tell me what I should be looking for in a sliding gate? What should I NOT do?

I've already had one company refuse to quote me for a manual gate for 'health and safety reasons'.

Thanks a lot

Gumbo

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Hi,

One of my planning conditions stipulates that we must install a manual sliding gate and not an electric one. The justification of this is that the entrance way to our house crosses a footpath and cycle track and having to wait while an automated gate opens may cause a hazard (lets not mention that I'd have to stop the car and get out and manually open a gate instead)

Anyway - we're now faced with the task of sourcing a manual sliding gate, approx 3.6m wide. There will also be an older lady (70+) who will need to be able to open and close the gate easily so weight will be a huge issue.

Can anyone tell me what I should be looking for in a sliding gate? What should I NOT do?

I've already had one company refuse to quote me for a manual gate for 'health and safety reasons'.

Thanks a lot

Leave the gates open while you are out, so that you only have to get out of the car to close them while the car is already parked on your land.

BrianBoru00

kceire wrote: »

Leave the gates open while you are out, so that you only have to get out of the car to close them while the car is already parked on your land.

Does that not defeat the purpose of having gates in the first place?

mrsWhippy

kceire wrote: »

Leave the gates open while you are out, so that you only have to get out of the car to close them while the car is already parked on your land.

Unfortunately, that's not really possible.

There are two families that will be using the gate, I've got a toddler, and it's on a very busy road. The gate can never be left open really.

Do you have any advice on the type of gate I should be looking for? I believe you can get a sliding track, or a cantilevered option ....

seamus

Do they have to be sliding gates?

tabby aspreme

The simplest option would be a v track fixed into cement, with the gate running on rollers, or a light rsj concreted flush into the driveway with a 15mm solid bar welded onto it for the rollers to run on.

The gate could be, steel frame sheeted with timber, or all timber, 2 gates would reduce the effort needed to open them

JimmyMW

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Hi,

One of my planning conditions stipulates that we must install a manual sliding gate and not an electric one. The justification of this is that the entrance way to our house crosses a footpath and cycle track and having to wait while an automated gate opens may cause a hazard (lets not mention that I'd have to stop the car and get out and manually open a gate instead)

Anyway - we're now faced with the task of sourcing a manual sliding gate, approx 3.6m wide. There will also be an older lady (70+) who will need to be able to open and close the gate easily so weight will be a huge issue.

Can anyone tell me what I should be looking for in a sliding gate? What should I NOT do?

I've already had one company refuse to quote me for a manual gate for 'health and safety reasons'.

Thanks a lot

Write to the planning anchorites and have them confirm the condition, if they don't want an electric radio controlled gate to operate given the justification above, surely they would accept an electrically operated gate where you need to get out of the car to put in a code given your problem of the 70 year old plus operating the gate.

mrsWhippy

JimmyMW wrote: »

Write to the planning anchorites and have them confirm the condition, if they don't want an electric radio controlled gate to operate given the justification above, surely they would accept an electrically operated gate where you need to get out of the car to put in a code given your problem of the 70 year old plus operating the gate.

I might just do that.

How would I go about challenging this? Do I just write/email them or do I need to start a 'formal' lines of communication somehow?

listermint

Thought process....

Why not have a sliding gate put in 90% of the width, and a pedestrian gate covering the remaining bit.

Would this satisfy their conditions ? That way pedestrians have access but you can install electric to prevent vehicular access

JimmyMW

mrsWhippy wrote: »

I might just do that.

How would I go about challenging this? Do I just write/email them or do I need to start a 'formal' lines of communication somehow?

If you look up the planning on line you should get the name of the engineer who is over the area as they should have submitted a report to the planner, read this report first as it will be most likely this condition formed part of their recommendations to the planner, talk to them first and they should be able to guide you. Worst case you may need to apply for planning to have the condition removed or altered.

JimmyMW

listermint wrote: »

Thought process....

Why not have a sliding gate put in 90% of the width, and a pedestrian gate covering the remaining bit.

Would this satisfy their conditions ? That way pedestrians have access but you can install electric to prevent vehicular access

I think you might have misunderstood the situation, re read the original post the issue is blocking the walkway/cycle path when in the car waiting for the electric gate to open.

Glass fused light

mrsWhippy wrote: »

I might just do that.

How would I go about challenging this? Do I just write/email them or do I need to start a 'formal' lines of communication somehow?

Go back to the co's who refused to quote on h&s grounds, get them to put that refusal in writing and the reasons, get them to recomend a system but make sure you can afford it.

And follow JimmyMW's suggestion.

enricoh

Leave it manual until 6 months after you finish building. Then wire it up. Make sure to run a duct between both piers when cementing in rail.

Thats a rediculous condition u can get a phone opener kit that you ring from the Bluetooth on your car when yer 1 minute away from the gaff and not block anyone

amber2

Could you not plead a case with
The planner that Using the fob to open the gate you can do so at a range of so many meters back the road from your gate, either that or you Ring the phone number linked to your electric gate & when you arrive at the gate it’s actually open & you drive straight in no stopping that you would have if you manually have to open them. Seems to me electric gates seem the better option rather than manual ones, don’t understand their logic.

Stoner

mrsWhippy wrote:

Do you have any advice on the type of gate I should be looking for? I believe you can get a sliding track, or a cantilevered option ....

I've a sliding track. It is motorized, but can be set to manual, it's very easy to slide over and back and imo this is no different to any motorized unit, minus two things

The electrics
Some sort of latch, I've none
Mine is in 16 years now

mrsWhippy

JimmyMW wrote: »

I think you might have misunderstood the situation, re read the original post the issue is blocking the walkway/cycle path when in the car waiting for the electric gate to open.

But that's what I don't get.

If I had a blipper, I could activate the gate opening before I approach the entrance. Otherwise, I'd have to stop the car on the cycle track, and manually open the gate.

I just don't get their reasoning.

JimmyMW

mrsWhippy wrote: »

But that's what I don't get.

If I had a blipper, I could activate the gate opening before I approach the entrance. Otherwise, I'd have to stop the car on the cycle track, and manually open the gate.

I just don't get their reasoning.

Yep their reasoning sounds mental, however if approached correctly you might get it over turned.

listermint

JimmyMW wrote: »

I think you might have misunderstood the situation, re read the original post the issue is blocking the walkway/cycle path when in the car waiting for the electric gate to open.

Ok got that part, but having read it again. A manual gate makes no sense if the requirement is to make sure the pathway is clear at all times. It simply wouldnt be if the vehicle is stationary whilst occupants open the gate everytime.

seems.... Idiotic.

Victor

Aluminium gate would probably be the lightest, but might not be able to take much abuse.

goldenhoarde

mrsWhippy wrote: »

But that's what I don't get.

If I had a blipper, I could activate the gate opening before I approach the entrance. Otherwise, I'd have to stop the car on the cycle track, and manually open the gate.

I just don't get their reasoning.

After a while I guess the council would be thinking they will just be left open to avoid the hassle of getting in and out of the car.

Which won't be the case here as outlined in previous posts

JimmyMW

goldenhoarde wrote: »

After a while I guess the council would be thinking they will just be left open to avoid the hassle of getting in and out of the car.

Which won't be the case here as outlined in previous posts

I agree, ,most likely the councils view on it is that the gates will only be closed to keep kids in when the house is occupied and therefore by default only used when the car is already inside. Mad but something like this is probably their reasoning.

seamus

listermint wrote: »

Ok got that part, but having read it again. A manual gate makes no sense if the requirement is to make sure the pathway is clear at all times. It simply wouldnt be if the vehicle is stationary whilst occupants open the gate everytime.

seems.... Idiotic.

Electric gates are really slow, way slower than someone jumping out and opening them.

Although a half-and-half idea may not be the worst. A 2.6m sliding gate and a 1m swinging pedestrian gate would mean the sliding gate is considerably lighter and people only have to open a small gate to walk in or out, rather than move the whole gate.

Gumbo

JimmyMW wrote: »

Yep their reasoning sounds mental, however if approached correctly you might get it over turned.

+1
Could you appeal this condition and argue the safer approach is to go electric?

mrsWhippy

I like that idea.

Is 2.6m wide enough for a car to fit comfortably?

mrsWhippy

kceire wrote: »

+1
Could you appeal this condition and argue the safer approach is to go electric?

How do we go about appealing?

We're only a month away from completion, so am very wary to rock the boat at the moment. Does it cost money to appeal?

I've contacted the architect anyway to get his take on it.

Gumbo

mrsWhippy wrote: »

I like that idea.

Is 2.6m wide enough for a car to fit comfortably?

Id say that's tight.
In Dublin, the max vehicle entrance permitted is 3.6m, I have the max myself.
2.6m is tight imo, id be aiming for at least 3m for an easier turn in and better visual.

tabby aspreme

You could put a Wicket gate into the main gate for pedestrian access, you would probably need to use a steel frame on the main gate for this.

Gumbo

mrsWhippy wrote: »

How do we go about appealing?

We're only a month away from completion, so am very wary to rock the boat at the moment. Does it cost money to appeal?

I've contacted the architect anyway to get his take on it.

Too late now.
You get 4 weeks to appeal the decision or any conditions when the Notification of Decision to Grant gets sent out. If you don't appeal or nobody else appeals then the Final Grant is issued.

You could reapply for permission for electric gates which will effectively overrule the previous condition.

Glass fused light

Do you have enough room in the drive to inset the gate to accommodate a car?

mrsWhippy

kceire wrote: »

Too late now.
You get 4 weeks to appeal the decision or any conditions when the Notification of Decision to Grant gets sent out. If you don't appeal or nobody else appeals then the Final Grant is issued.

You could reapply for permission for electric gates which will effectively overrule the previous condition.

Ah ok. I think we were so delighted to have gotten planning in the first place, gates were wayyyyyy down the list of priorities!

Glass fused light wrote: »

Do you have enough room in the drive to inset the gate to accommodate a car?

Hmm unfortunately not. It's a shared drive with a tight turning circle.

mrsWhippy

tabby aspreme wrote: »

You could put a Wicket gate into the main gate for pedestrian access, you would probably need to use a steel frame on the main gate for this.

What is a wicket gate? Thanks!

If anyone knows any decent companies who can manufacturer these gates, please pm me!

seamus

2.6m is lots IMHO. Standard road width on a local road is 2.5 - 2.7m per lane. It's just a gap to drive the car through, you don't need lots of turning space or the ability to open the doors.

If you like the split design, it would be worth marking out 2.6 metres on the ground (use a pole for one side) and then driving a car through the gap to see how you feel about it.

That would be my preference, but then I'm in and out of the house on foot/bike a lot more frequently than in a car. If you need the bigger gap for deliveries or whatever, you can open both gates.

What is a wicket gate? Thanks!

The human equivalent of a doggy door. So you still have one big gate, but there's a smaller gate in it that you can walk through.

my3cents

I wonder if the perceived hazard is a cyclist trying to nip through an automatic gate just as the gate is closing and getting caught?

I don't see any engineer changing his mind on that one.

Metric Tensor

Hi OP


Would you mind posting the exact text of the condition on the planning?


The reason I ask is does it specifically ask for a "manual only" gate? Or does it look for a gate that "can be operated manually" in which case you could install an electric one provided it has a manual option or over-ride.

mrsWhippy

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Hi OP


Would you mind posting the exact text of the condition on the planning?


The reason I ask is does it specifically ask for a "manual only" gate? Or does it look for a gate that "can be operated manually" in which case you could install an electric one provided it has a manual option or over-ride.

I thought our planner's report had more detail, but it doesn't seem to. Can't find the transport report either ... doesn't seem to be online.

See attached, pretty poor in detail!

mrsWhippy

my3cents wrote: »

I wonder if the perceived hazard is a cyclist trying to nip through an automatic gate just as the gate is closing and getting caught?

I don't see any engineer changing his mind on that one.

Don't electric gates have safety features to prevent this type of thing happening?

Metric Tensor

Ah - "not electrically operated" is what it says on the tin. No option really unless you get them to reconsider.

I can see their point of view.

I'd say definitely something on a track. Worst case scenario a steel fabricator could knock something together for you that you could clad if necessary. Electric gate installers have to be registered. No such register for non-electric installers.

my3cents

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Don't electric gates have safety features to prevent this type of thing happening?

Yes, I've worked with plenty, but a cyclist moving at speed could still hit a gate that is moving.

My thinking is that closing by hand is the requirement because a manual control means there will be someone there who will see a cyclist and stop closing the gate.

In the case of normal hinged gates from one directly a cyclist could hit them and their own weight would act against the anti crush mechanism forcing the gate closed on them, hence the requirement for a sliding gate.

Just a guess but it fits the facts.

JimmyMW

my3cents wrote: »

Yes, I've worked with plenty, but a cyclist moving at speed could still hit a gate that is moving.

My thinking is that closing by hand is the requirement because a manual control means there will be someone there who will see a cyclist and stop closing the gate.

In the case of normal hinged gates from one directly a cyclist could hit them and their own weight would act against the anti crush mechanism forcing the gate closed on them, hence the requirement for a sliding gate.

Just a guess but it fits the facts.

Why are the cyclists hitting the gate, correct me if i'm wrong but is the gate and the cycle path not parallel? Is the justification that the car would be crossing the cycle path to enter through the gate and that the council don't want the car to stop on the cycle path blocking it?

Pkiernan

Just put in an electric one.
If inspected unlock it from the drive mechanism.

Councils in Ireland are consisted of the laziest people on Earth.

Glass fused light

I would say it may have more to do with it being a shared gate, the manual bit stops one or other side having control over the electrical connection?

my3cents

JimmyMW wrote: »

Why are the cyclists hitting the gate, correct me if i'm wrong but is the gate and the cycle path not parallel? Is the justification that the car would be crossing the cycle path to enter through the gate and that the council don't want the car to stop on the cycle path blocking it?

Your perfectly right, my bad because I know someone that is fighting a the council about them putting a cycle path across their garden I assumed the cyclists were using the gate

May Contain Small Parts

I wonder if you can get pneumatic gate openers...