Terminating FTTH alternative

Andy From Sligo

it looks like we will be getting FTTH pretty soon, a company called Defusion Utlities have been going up and down the road in their vans putting a 3M BPEO enclosure on the wooden telegraph pole and been feeding the black fibre optic cable to a Manhole under the pavement outside our house .

I was wondering - if when they are finally finished, if I were to order FTTH broadband would they then bring the fibre optic from a junction in the underground manhole and then underground to the existing plastic eircom (will say eircom because thats who was in when the house was built) and drill a hole and put the new fibre cable through the wall to a new Fibre Optic terminal

or could they wire it as fibre to the manhole cover and then converter to existing PTSN copper wire thats already in situ from the manhole cover to the existing outdoor junction on the side of the house (which is then wired up to all the other telephone sockets in the rest of the house - or rather the wiring for the rest of the houses socket is behind, but not connected , at the back of an existing ADSL/PTSN splitter type faceplate ) ?

Now i understand wired up in this way its not true FTTH and instead of up to 1000gb download , the last little bit would be V-DSL and allow only up to 100gb broadband but i am just thinking of convenience of using the telephone wiring that is already in situ in the house (ie all the copper pairs going to the ADSL/VDSL splitter faceplate) plus the copper pair that is already in situ in the duct that goes from our house to the manhole cover under the pavement (all ducted under the ground) + if possible because using VDSL as opposed to fibre ordering a VOIP service to go along with the VDSL service.... so in effect working like FTTC rather than FTTH

I know that might sound crazy (like "why would you want FTTC if you could avail of FTTH which is much better, and better speeds" ) but I am just curious if its a possibility if they could do such a thing? or do it in such a way?

here is our existing setup (at the moment not conected to any service, ie ADSL/PTSN or anything at the moment - total dead line, even though all the cables are in situ in the house)

Johnboy1951

Eir/Openeir:-
Where fibre is brought to the poles outside the premises, they bring fibre into the premises .... Fibre to the Home (FTTH)

Where fibre is brought to a cabinet in urban areas they use the copper wire into the premises .... Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC)


Siro do FTTH only.

Marlow

Also, understand, that where the distribution points are mounted on the poles or in the manhole it will be fiber into the home. So a new cable run.

VDSL technology needs power for the DSLAM, and is costly in small deployments. So they only deploy it where they can reach 100s of homes within a short range deployment. These are typically green road side cabinets.

FTTH, the way OpenEir and SIRO have rolled it out is passive all the way between the exchange and the premise. The only active components are the OLT (In the exchange) and the ONT (inside your house).

Asking for a half way house for the sake of not drilling a hole or running another cable is not going to happen.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

Also, understand, that where the distribution points are mounted on the poles or in the manhole it will be fiber into the home. So a new cable run.

VDSL technology needs power for the DSLAM, and is costly in small deployments. So they only deploy it where they can reach 100s of homes within a short range deployment. These are typically green road side cabinets.

FTTH, the way OpenEir and SIRO have rolled it out is passive all the way between the exchange and the premise. The only active components are the OLT (In the exchange) and the ONT (inside your house).

Asking for a half way house for the sake of not drilling a hole or running another cable is not going to happen.

/M

thanks - you know I was saying even though all the cable'ing was in situ from the ADSL/VDSL/TEL Faceplate all the way to the box on the side of the house and then carries on all the way to the manhole cover ... but is dead (im thinking it terminates into the manhole cover and then goes no-where else) - what would be my options when FTTH comes into the house then if I want a landline (ie just use a normal corded PSTN telephone?) - would I get them to wire up the copper pairs to use alongside the fibre cable or when they put in the fibre cable in the duct from the manhole cover to my house are they likely to take out the pstn copper cable out of the duct and run the fibre cable or do I get VOIP over FTTH (if you can get VOIP over FTTH?) I have an existing Huawei modem but it just has a ADSL/VDSL socket on it , 4 LAN'S , and a TEL socket - what do you reckon?

Johnboy1951

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks - you know I was saying even though all the cable'ing was in situ from the ADSL/VDSL/TEL Faceplate all the way to the box on the side of the house and then carries on all the way to the manhole cover ... but is dead (im thinking it terminates into the manhole cover and then goes no-where else) - what would be my options when FTTH comes into the house then if I want a landline (ie just use a normal corded PSTN telephone?) - would I get them to wire up the copper pairs to use alongside the fibre cable or when they put in the fibre cable in the duct from the manhole cover to my house are they likely to take out the pstn copper cable out of the duct and run the fibre cable or do I get VOIP over FTTH (if you can get VOIP over FTTH?) I have an existing Huawei modem but it just has a ADSL/VDSL socket on it , 4 LAN'S , and a TEL socket - what do you reckon?

The fibre into the home is a separate cable and does not interfere with the copper for PSTN, so the two can work at the same time.
Of course you then pay for both connections.

On the other hand the fibre is capable of handling voice and video calls using VOIP without any copper. That does require power in the premises, so if dependent on it the user should have a battery backup.

Most (all?) providers of service on fibre offer the option of telephone with fibre, or you can make your own arrangements with any provider of your choice.

UrbanFret

Any idea how far from the distribution point on the pole would it be possible to get FTTH .

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks - you know I was saying even though all the cable'ing was in situ from the ADSL/VDSL/TEL Faceplate all the way to the box on the side of the house and then carries on all the way to the manhole cover ... but is dead (im thinking it terminates into the manhole cover and then goes no-where else) - what would be my options when FTTH comes into the house then if I want a landline (ie just use a normal corded PSTN telephone?) - would I get them to wire up the copper pairs to use alongside the fibre cable or when they put in the fibre cable in the duct from the manhole cover to my house are they likely to take out the pstn copper cable out of the duct and run the fibre cable or do I get VOIP over FTTH (if you can get VOIP over FTTH?) I have an existing Huawei modem but it just has a ADSL/VDSL socket on it , 4 LAN'S , and a TEL socket - what do you reckon?

First of all, there is a european law, that prevents OpenEIR from removing said copper cable, so you will always be able to order a phone service on that seperatly. If you want it removed, you have to do that yourself and preferable replace it with a drawstring ahead of the installation. They can't touch it, because it's infrastructure, that still could service other providers.

Having said that, most of the telcos are now going down the line to provide the phone service using VoIP over the broadband connection, so the copper would be obsolete.

The only application that you still need the copper line for is a panic button.

UrbanFret wrote: »

Any idea how far from the distribution point on the pole would it be possible to get FTTH .

20km from the exchange is the limit. OpenEIRs limits for an overhead is 50m from the pole to the house.

Beyond that, there are no limits or degradation in reality as this is light. It's not copper+electricity, where the signal can degrade over distance.

/M

UrbanFret

Marlow wrote: »

20km from the exchange is the limit. OpenEIRs limits for an overhead is 50m from the pole to the house.

Beyond that, there are no limits or degradation in reality as this is light. It's not copper+electricity, where the signal can degrade over distance.

/M

Thanks. The roadside pole is 36m from my house. I have a duct running to that pole. The distribution box is 2 poles up from that so that would be 100m to my pole and 36m to my house plus 5m for the height of the pole. (Total 141m) Whats my prospects? I think maybe because my home has not been assigned an eircode yet I'm not shown as planned. This pic might help. The route in white was kindly suggested by Navi in another thread. Id have no problem running a duct to that pole if that would help.

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

First of all, there is a european law, that prevents OpenEIR from removing said copper cable, so you will always be able to order a phone service on that seperatly. If you want it removed, you have to do that yourself and preferable replace it with a drawstring ahead of the installation. They can't touch it, because it's infrastructure, that still could service other providers.

Having said that, most of the telcos are now going down the line to provide the phone service using VoIP over the broadband connection, so the copper would be obsolete.

The only application that you still need the copper line for is a panic button.



20km from the exchange is the limit. OpenEIRs limits for an overhead is 50m from the pole to the house.

Beyond that, there are no limits or degradation in reality as this is light. It's not copper+electricity, where the signal can degrade over distance.

/M

I suppose the only issue you have with a signal delivered by light is that you cannot have any kinks or sharp bends or snap the glass fibre conductor in the middle of the cable isn't it?

Its amazing how good the light can travel along the cable, I was watching a YouTube video where an engineer in Australia was fitting fibre to the house and at the house he shone a penlight torch with a flashing red bulb at the house end, then went a few hundred yards down the road to the cabinet and could see the flashing red light in the cabinet on the correct connection.

https://youtu.be/xMYe1xsB7Qc

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I suppose the only issue you have with a signal delivered by light is that you cannot have any kinks or sharp bends or snap the glass fibre conductor in the middle of the cable isn't it?

Correct. Soft corners are imperative.

/M

Marlow

UrbanFret wrote: »

Thanks. The roadside pole is 36m from my house. I have a duct running to that pole. The distribution box is 2 poles up from that so that would be 100m to my pole and 36m to my house plus 5m for the height of the pole. (Total 141m) Whats my prospects? I think maybe because my home has not been assigned an eircode yet I'm not shown as planned. This pic might help. The route in white was kindly suggested by Navi in another thread. Id have no problem running a duct to that pole if that would help.

Generally, that's within the limits of what OpenEIR accomodates. It takes a clued up ISP to get that sorted and ordered with OpenEIR though.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

Correct. Soft corners are imperative.

/M

You know how a CD lens on a CD player/DVD player can get cloudy over time and even get dust on it , can the surface of the fibre cable do the same and cut down or even completely cut out the signal ? - I should imagine as well that you would have to make sure wherever you have a fibre optic cable terminated you would have to make sure its completely water and dustproof as if any water or dust or dirt ingresses at all your in trouble with the signal. - I remember years ago with a pstn line it was crackly and hissy when making a phone call and dial up internet went down to 28k and what it turned out to be was that the seal on the connection on the telephone pole kept getting wet when it rained, still got a telephone signal but it was poor, i suppose if water or dust got to the fibre it would just cut the signal altogether wouldnt it because with digital its signal is either on or off.?

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

You know how a CD lens on a CD player/DVD player can get cloudy over time and even get dust on it , can the surface of the fibre cable do the same and cut down or even completely cut out the signal ?

There is a big difference there: the CD player laser and the CD surface are exposed and in a dusty environment.

The fiber optic cable is enclosed in a dust free environment. The only exposed parts are the connectors at either end and you're not supposed to constantly plug them in and out + you can clean them.

So your analogy isn't valid.

The cable has multiple coats of shielding/protection before you get to the fiber. If in the end the fiber gets damaged be it physically or by ingress of conterminating elements, then the FTTH connection will fail and will need to be repaired at the faulty segment. But there is no degredation in speed. It either works or it doesn't.

/M

Andy From Sligo

re the VOIP , I am presently using a Vodafone at home ADSL Huawei HG658c wireless router (with custom O2 firmware) on my system which presently is receiving broadband wireless from a mountain mast, then the ethernet cable from the IDU/Power unit I have it plugged into the WLAN socket of the HG658c - so if/when I get the FTTH installed if I take the ethernet cable from the ONT and plug that into the WLAN socket of the HG658c and then plug a corded telephone into the TEL socket on the HG658c then all it should be is a matter of getting in touch with the broadband supplier to switch on VOIP over FTTH shouldnt I ? and then no need for PTSN line at all then? - have I that right, will that work?

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

re the VOIP , I am presently using a Vodafone at home ADSL Huawei HG658c wireless router (with custom O2 firmware) on my system which presently is receiving broadband wireless from a mountain mast, then the ethernet cable from the IDU/Power unit I have it plugged into the WLAN socket of the HG658c - so if/when I get the FTTH installed if I take the ethernet cable from the ONT and plug that into the WLAN socket of the HG658c and then plug a corded telephone into the TEL socket on the HG658c then all it should be is a matter of getting in touch with the broadband supplier to switch on VOIP over FTTH shouldnt I ? and then no need for PTSN line at all then? - have I that right, will that work?

You'll get a new router with whatever ISP you go with. Say it's eir for example. Some of their bundles are listed here:

https://www.eir.ie/broadband/1000mb-fibre/

So if you have ordered the Extreme broadband, Unlimited Mobile & UK calls the new router will be configured for the VoIP service. You'll get a landline number with a local prefix to your area. All you need to do is plug a telephone into one of the phone ports on the router.

Andy From Sligo

it looks like it will be quite a bit of a messy state of affiars when its fitted if it looks like this:




so you have your ODP (which you have to have I suppose) but then you have your ONT ... and then on top of all that you have to add your wireless lan router box - 3boxes and all those wires - do they do ONT's with built in wi-fi 802.11n now these days to at least cut down on one box/cableling?

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

it looks like it will be quite a bit of a messy state of affiars when its fitted if it looks like this:




so you have your ODP (which you have to have I suppose) but then you have your ONT ... and then on top of all that you have to add your wireless lan router box - 3boxes and all those wires - do they do ONT's with built in wi-fi 802.11n now these days to at least cut down on one box/cableling?

No. It's that or nothing I'm afraid.

Andy From Sligo

Brennan Chubby Candle wrote: »

No. It's that or nothing I'm afraid.

oh right thanks - shall have to build a cupboard around the 'eyesore' of boxes and cables then so

babi-hrse

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I was wondering - if when they are finally finished, if I were to order FTTH broadband would they then bring the fibre optic from a junction in the underground manhole and then underground to the existing plastic eircom (will say eircom because thats who was in when the house was built) and drill a hole and put the new fibre cable through the wall to a new Fibre Optic terminal

or could they wire it as fibre to the manhole cover and then converter to existing PTSN copper wire thats already in situ from the manhole cover to the existing outdoor junction on the side of the house (which is then wired up to all the other telephone sockets in the rest of the house - or rather the wiring for the rest of the houses socket is behind, but not connected , at the back of an existing ADSL/PTSN splitter type faceplate ) ?

No this is not possible it needs an ont to be powered by your house's 220v socket and it is not waterproof after the ont it converts back to electrical. This means it must make it to your house.

Now i understand wired up in this way its not true FTTH and instead of up to 1000gb download , the last little bit would be V-DSL and allow only up to 100gb broadband but i am just thinking of convenience of using the telephone wiring that is already in situ in the house (ie all the copper pairs going to the ADSL/VDSL splitter faceplate) plus the copper pair that is already in situ in the duct that goes from our house to the manhole cover under the pavement (all ducted under the ground) + if possible because using VDSL as opposed to fibre ordering a VOIP service to go along with the VDSL service.... so in effect working like FTTC rather than FTTH

Yes this is true but there is no way to tell the ont to just use 2 pairs
You'd only get collisions and dropped packets if it even connects at all. The tech would not be allowed to connect to your internal two pair wiring. By all means go nuts when he leaves but don't expect it to work.

babi-hrse

The yellow green will be spiralled from one to the other and not as messy as that but yes I agree they're fairly messy to look at.

babi-hrse

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

re the VOIP , I am presently using a Vodafone at home ADSL Huawei HG658c wireless router (with custom O2 firmware) on my system which presently is receiving broadband wireless from a mountain mast, then the ethernet cable from the IDU/Power unit I have it plugged into the WLAN socket of the HG658c - so if/when I get the FTTH installed if I take the ethernet cable from the ONT and plug that into the WLAN socket of the HG658c and then plug a corded telephone into the TEL socket on the HG658c then all it should be is a matter of getting in touch with the broadband supplier to switch on VOIP over FTTH shouldnt I ? and then no need for PTSN line at all then? - have I that right, will that work?

Yep that should work no issue I'd even go one further if you have multiple phone sockets in the house cut the connection to the network and plug a ADSL cable from Tel port on router and stick the other end into the phone socket this will backfired VoIP onto the old original sockets and energise all sockets to call through the modem.

tsue921i8wljb3

babi-hrse wrote: »

Yep that should work no issue I'd even go one further if you have multiple phone sockets in the house cut the connection to the network and plug a ADSL cable from Tel port on router and stick the other end into the phone socket this will backfired VoIP onto the old original sockets and energise all sockets to call through the modem.

His old router will not work with the VoIP service at least with eir. He must use the ISP supplied router.

Andy From Sligo

Brennan Chubby Candle wrote: »

His old router will not work with the VoIP service at least with eir. He must use the ISP supplied router.

ah right, that a shame - the huawei hg658c not a bad router all things considered and has usb socket for media on the network

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah right, that a shame - the huawei hg658c not a bad router all things considered and has usb socket for media on the network

eir use the HG659b which is a newer version of yours. It has a USB port on it but I have not used it. I presume it's for sharing media.

Andy From Sligo

Brennan Chubby Candle wrote: »

eir use the HG659b which is a newer version of yours. It has a USB port on it but I have not used it. I presume it's for sharing media.

interestingly I have just found a HG659 vodafone (vodafone @ Home ADSL) gave us - yes it has an extra USB and it says on back of box can be used with a usb 3G/4G dongle for internet backup - i wonder if I could USB tether an android phone with a 4G vodafone SIM in it to the HG 659 then ... or does it have to be a proper dongle

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

interestingly I have just found a HG659 vodafone (vodafone @ Home ADSL) gave us - yes it has an extra USB and it says on back of box can be used with a usb 3G/4G dongle for internet backup - i wonder if I could USB tether an android phone with a 4G vodafone SIM in it to the HG 659 then ... or does it have to be a proper dongle

I've no idea. Sorry.