Diesel future classics

voz es

I own a e39 530d BMW. it has been parked up the last while as the tax got crazy with it, my intention was to hold onto it until it meets the 30 year mark and have it as a daily driver.

The thing is with all this negativity around diesel I wonder if we will be able to drive a 30 year old diesel in 15 years time. I'm really debating selling it now as I don't want to hang on another 12 years only to be told I cant drive it.

Of course there is the possibility of an electric conversion....

What do you think folks?

wexie

personally I think it's extremely unlikely that existing diesel cars will ever be completely banned.

Perhaps no more new ones sold (likely even in the long term) but banning what's already on the road would be political suicide imo.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

voz es wrote: »

I own a e39 530d BMW. it has been parked up the last while as the tax got crazy with it, my intention was to hold onto it until it meets the 30 year mark and have it as a daily driver.

The thing is with all this negativity around diesel I wonder if we will be able to drive a 30 year old diesel in 15 years time. I'm really debating selling it now as I don't want to hang on another 12 years only to be told I cant drive it.

Of course there is the possibility of an electric conversion....

What do you think folks?

If your main objective is to save on tax, that's about the dumbest idea I have ever heard.

You are going to park a car up for 12 years? The mind boggles...

Dades

Cars could all be driving themselves by the time that qualifies for vintage tax. A loooong time to wait and watch the car deteriorate.

Silvera

Not a bad idea by any means. We wouldn't have a lot of our current classic cars if people didn't hold onto them / put them in storage over the years!

kev1.3s

I have a 03 renault avantime that I've parked up in antcipation, most people think I'm crazy but i6just couldn't bring myself to sell it to someone for €500 who will run it into the ground.
If you love the car and can store it keep it up until it becomes more affordable to drive it again.

80sDiesel

I would guess that if you wanted to store a cae for 12 years it probably would be better to buy the best low mileage, every extra car that you could find.

The avantime would be a fantastic candidate for an electric conversion in the future.

This crowd does it ( starting at 8k) but will get cheaper in the future. .
https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk

unkel

E39 diesel will never be a classic car holding good value. Forget about your idea. It is 18 years old now and worth almost nothing in this country. But in your place I would just sell it or maybe look into exporting it if that yields more money. I am into electric cars, my main family car is a full EV. But forget about converting your E39 to EV unless you're doing it for love. It will be extremely expensive to do it. Sorry for all the bad news.

Ubbquittious

12 years is nothing

My uncle has cars that have been stored for longer than I've been around

EPAndlee

If you love the car then keep it and in 12 years you can enjoy driving. I wouldn't be rushing into believing this diesel scare mongering. They'll up the tax on the 08,09 etc diesel and push people into new more economical cars. The technology will be there to cope with the emissions a diesel will produce in the future. Most people want an EV they are too expensive to buy new and the infrastructure isn't there. 90% of our new car sales are diesel and in 4 years we sold one EV.

ELM327

EPAndlee wrote: »

If you love the car then keep it and in 12 years you can enjoy driving. I wouldn't be rushing into believing this diesel scare mongering. They'll up the tax on the 08,09 etc diesel and push people into new more economical cars. The technology will be there to cope with the emissions a diesel will produce in the future. Most people want an EV they are too expensive to buy new and the infrastructure isn't there. 90% of our new car sales are diesel and in 4 years we sold one EV.

Interestingly I spoke to a manager of a regional Nissan franchise and he told me that they were at approx 55-60% diesel, 30-35% petrol and about 7% EV for the year.


Interesting to note that statistically we as a nation have approximately and consistently since 2014 purchased new diesels at a rate of 70% of new car purchases.
Here's the CSO release for 2016, showing approx 70% diesels

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/vlftm/vehicleslicensedforthefirsttimejune2016/



So I don't know where the 90% is coming from.


An interesting article from Motorcheck
https://www.motorcheck.ie/blog/is-a-diesel-scrappage-scheme-next/


The tide has turned for diesel. Not necessarily in the commercial sector but in the private sector. You can be sure a change in the way private diesel use is taxed will come in shortly, and certainly within the next 3-4 years. Our 600 million per annum fines will come in from 2020 so I expect the private diesel motorist to bear most of this.




PS: I am a fan of diesels, I have a diesel classic in storage at the moment. But there's no point putting your head in the sand and expecting diesel to be the solution for private transport on an ongoing basis.


PPS: I'd love an e39 530d to store up too. bonus points for top spec, m sport facelift and touring model in the metallic green with cream leather.

EPAndlee

ELM327 wrote: »

Interestingly I spoke to a manager of a regional Nissan franchise and he told me that they were at approx 55-60% diesel, 30-35% petrol and about 7% EV for the year.


Interesting to note that statistically we as a nation have approximately and consistently since 2014 purchased new diesels at a rate of 70% of new car purchases.
Here's the CSO release for 2016, showing approx 70% diesels

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/vlftm/vehicleslicensedforthefirsttimejune2016/



So I don't know where the 90% is coming from.


An interesting article from Motorcheck
https://www.motorcheck.ie/blog/is-a-diesel-scrappage-scheme-next/


The tide has turned for diesel. Not necessarily in the commercial sector but in the private sector. You can be sure a change in the way private diesel use is taxed will come in shortly, and certainly within the next 3-4 years. Our 600 million per annum fines will come in from 2020 so I expect the private diesel motorist to bear most of this.




PS: I am a fan of diesels, I have a diesel classic in storage at the moment. But there's no point putting your head in the sand and expecting diesel to be the solution for private transport on an ongoing basis.


PPS: I'd love an e39 530d to store up too. bonus points for top spec, m sport facelift and touring model in the metallic green with cream leather.

I was talking about the dealership I work in where nearly every new car that leaves the forecourt is diesel

ELM327

Is the CSO wrong, or are you working in a small/outlier dealership?

Ubbquittious

ELM327 wrote: »

The tide has turned for diesel. Not necessarily in the commercial sector but in the private sector. You can be sure a change in the way private diesel use is taxed will come in shortly, and certainly within the next 3-4 years. Our 600 million per annum fines will come in from 2020 so I expect the private diesel motorist to bear most of this.

Madness if that were to become true. The government is the biggest polluter of all, sending the equivalent of 2-5L of Daysul up in smoke every day for every man, woman and child in the country.


If they spent 600 million per annum on putting up solar farms and encouraging people put up their own panels we might escape those fines but no, they are too busy quibbling.

ELM327

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Madness if that were to become true. The government is the biggest polluter of all, sending the equivalent of 2-5L of Daysul up in smoke every day for every man, woman and child in the country.


If they spent 600 million per annum on putting up solar farms and encouraging people put up their own panels we might escape those fines but no, they are too busy quibbling.

We already give massive subsidies towards solar.
I know someone in Wexford who is benefiting from this for example.


But it's not the only way. We currently incentivise diesel over petrol. Neither are good, but the taxation completely ignores the harmful gases from burning diesel - particularly NOX - which should not be encouraged.


One of the first things we should do to stem the tide of these fines (which are not a one off, there are annual penalties coming) is to change the taxation of private diesel motoring.Tax should be more on a diesel, like it was pre 2008, so that if you do mad miles in a year then it pays to have a diesel but otherwise you should have a petrol with a catalytic converter. And ideally a plug.


As a country and as a society we need to move away from burning dinosaurs because there wasn't and isnt an infinite supply. Electrification currently looks the most likely. Oil companies and governments would probably prefer hydrogen as its easier to tax and you can't generate it at home easily.


Of course, the greenest thing to do (even compared to buying a new EV) is keeping an old car on the road.

Ubbquittious

ELM327 wrote: »

We already give massive subsidies towards solar.
I know someone in Wexford who is benefiting from this for example.


But it's not the only way. We currently incentivise diesel over petrol. Neither are good, but the taxation completely ignores the harmful gases from burning diesel - particularly NOX - which should not be encouraged.


One of the first things we should do to stem the tide of these fines (which are not a one off, there are annual penalties coming) is to change the taxation of private diesel motoring.Tax should be more on a diesel, like it was pre 2008, so that if you do mad miles in a year then it pays to have a diesel but otherwise you should have a petrol with a catalytic converter. And ideally a plug.


As a country and as a society we need to move away from burning dinosaurs because there wasn't and isnt an infinite supply. Electrification currently looks the most likely. Oil companies and governments would probably prefer hydrogen as its easier to tax and you can't generate it at home easily.


Of course, the greenest thing to do (even compared to buying a new EV) is keeping an old car on the road.

How do you get those subsidies? Are they only for big-bellied men in suits who dine at the Shelbourne? Because the feed-in tariff is crap as far as I know. Taxing private diesel cars is landing the problem at the foot of the peasants again just like they did with the property tax and USC. It might raise some money to pay the fines but little else

ELM327

Ubbquittious wrote: »

How do you get those subsidies? Are they only for big-bellied men in suits who dine at the Shelbourne? Because the feed-in tariff is crap as far as I know. Taxing private diesel cars is landing the problem at the foot of the peasants again just like they did with the property tax and USC. It might raise some money to pay the fines but little else

The person involved is a former dub living in wexford but I don't think he's on the lunch circuit.... No need for the cynicism.



The subsidies are currently at commercial levels only, no FIT for a number of years now. It's not in esb interest to bring in FIT, so they won't unless they are forced.

It does look like private microgeneration subsidies may happen soon though
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/more-power-to-you-household-solar-energy-grants-on-way-1.3379178

They need to tax diesel cars more and reverse the stupid decisions by the "green" party in 2008.

fancy pigeon

voz es wrote: »

I own a e39 530d BMW. it has been parked up the last while as the tax got crazy with it, my intention was to hold onto it until it meets the 30 year mark and have it as a daily driver.

The thing is with all this negativity around diesel I wonder if we will be able to drive a 30 year old diesel in 15 years time. I'm really debating selling it now as I don't want to hang on another 12 years only to be told I cant drive it.

Of course there is the possibility of an electric conversion....

What do you think folks?

I've done pretty much the same thing with my 1989 525i. Bought it in 2006 for pennies and have done small bits and bobs over the years to keep it healthy.

I don't drive it much as I use the Z more, it has in the 12 years of my ownership done 3k miles with me.

If I were to do it again, I wouldn't unless I had a garage to put it into (it sits at the front of the house on hard solid ground)

I have diesels in the pipeline for classic use (1995 C220 D and a 1999 406 D-Turbo) but these aren't roadworthy yet. When they are roadworthy (and eligible for classic insurance) I'll be using them too

RobAMerc

unkel wrote: »

E39 diesel will never be a classic car holding good value. Forget about your idea. It is 18 years old now and worth almost nothing in this country. But in your place I would just sell it or maybe look into exporting it if that yields more money. I am into electric cars, my main family car is a full EV. But forget about converting your E39 to EV unless you're doing it for love. It will be extremely expensive to do it. Sorry for all the bad news.

Jesus, you're cheery ! How many moggies. Austin A40s, Maxis etc would have gone to the scrapper if everyone had that attitude ?

OP I think its great that you are keeping it. Just be aware that mothballing a car in the Irish climate isnt done without responsibility, there will be some general maintenance you'll need to keep up.

unkel

RobAMerc wrote: »

Jesus, you're cheery !

I'm not defeatist! E39 is a brilliant car, one of the best driving saloons ever made. But if you want to mothball a cheapo to turn it into a classic within the next decade or so, buy a 530i or 540i or an M5, not a 530d

Clarifier

Are the 600 million fines not to do with CO2 rather than diesel particulates?

selectamatic

unkel wrote: »

I'm not defeatist! E39 is a brilliant car, one of the best driving saloons ever made. But if you want to mothball a cheapo to turn it into a classic within the next decade or so, buy a 530i or 540i or an M5, not a 530d

But a 530d will still be a classic when the time comes no one is really saying its a better option than any of the above but its still an option.

With regards other possible future diesel classics:
3dr 306 1.9 dturbo
Cavalier 1.7td
E10 corolla hatch/van 2.0d
Charade 1.0d/td
2.0td carina e
W202 c250td
W210 e300td
1.9d vento

There's lots of candidates from the late 90's early noughties but its a bit early to be listing them.

ELM327

The 1.9 DTurbo in anything will be a future classic IMO.
Although I get a bit humpy when I hear talk of an XUD toyota!

selectamatic

ELM327 wrote: »

The 1.9 DTurbo in anything will be a future classic IMO.
Although I get a bit humpy when I hear talk of an XUD toyota!

The n/a xud in the facelift e11 corolla's made for a pretty undesirable combo though. So the talk about them will be limited enough.

fancy pigeon

selectamatic wrote: »

The n/a xud in the facelift e11 corolla's made for a pretty undesirable combo though. So the talk about them will be limited enough.

The DW8/1WZ: A slow, wheezey, thirsty engine for a humpy ugly looking hoor of a car. An insult to the mighty XUD it's based upon!

Yes, I had one, in Lyons green blend tea green with cat sh*t beige seats and a prosthetic limb grey dash/door cards.

I got it to fire a rod through the block :cool:

Genuinely, it was so naff I do miss that car