Spots on the ceiling / new buid

xboxdad

Can you please help me identify the nature / cause of these spots?

It's a new build, we're about to move in and tiny spots like these appeared on our top floor (attic area). We have two bedrooms there, both have spots like this. Mostly on the sloped ceilings, but the non-rusty looking ones can also be found on some walls (top floor only again).

I don't see any pattern, so I don't think it's nails/screws rusting underneath.

Can you tell me if the milder ones without a prominent rust like core are essentially the same as the ones with the prominent rust like cores and what could cause this?

I need to be sure it's not mold / water or anything like this.

Thank you.

JimmyMW

xboxdad wrote: »

Can you please help me identify the nature / cause of these spots?

It's a new build, we're about to move in and tiny spots like these appeared on our top floor (attic area). We have two bedrooms there, both have spots like this. Mostly on the sloped ceilings, but the non-rusty looking ones can also be found on some walls (top floor only again).

I don't see any pattern, so I don't think it's nails/screws rusting underneath.

Can you tell me if the milder ones without a prominent rust like core are essentially the same as the ones with the prominent rust like cores and what could cause this?

I need to be sure it's not mold / water or anything like this.

Thank you.

Are the areas insulated plasterboard? If so were the fixings primed before skimming, this may be the cause however I note from your original post that you cant see a pattern so this may or may not be it.

xboxdad

JimmyMW wrote: »

Are the areas insulated plasterboard? If so were the fixings primed before skimming, this may be the cause however I note from your original post that you cant see a pattern so this may or may not be it.

Thank you!
Well, I don't know that answers as it's an end-of-terrace house built by a developer.

May I ask what does "priming" involve and what is its purpose?
...trying to figure out what could be the long term impact.

JimmyMW

xboxdad wrote: »

Thank you!
Well, I don't know that answers as it's an end-of-terrace house built by a developer.

May I ask what does "priming" involve and what is its purpose?
...trying to figure out what could be the long term impact.

The fixings for insulated plasterboard into timber joists would not be standard plasterboard fixings, they might be using long screws with mushroom heads to retain the insulated board, these would have to be painted with primer before skimming to prevent rust spots showing through. At least that has been my experience on my recent build.

xboxdad

JimmyMW wrote: »

The fixings for insulated plasterboard into timber joists would not be standard plasterboard fixings, they might be using long screws with mushroom heads to retain the insulated board, these would have to be painted with primer before skimming to prevent rust spots showing through. At least that has been my experience on my recent build.

Thanks again.
Do I understand correctly that if they've done it right, rusting would still happen underneath, it would just not show through?

JimmyMW

xboxdad wrote: »

Thanks again.
Do I understand correctly that if they've done it right, rusting would still happen underneath, it would just not show through?

No the primer would prevent the moisture from the skim rusting the fixing

xboxdad

JimmyMW wrote: »

No the primer would prevent the moisture from the skim rusting the fixing

Oh.. So this error might cause the plasterboard to fall off even... I mean when the fixings totally rust away. I hope it takes decades rather than months/years.


Thanks for your patience. I'm very inexperienced in this topic.

xboxdad

JimmyMW wrote: »

No the primer would prevent the moisture from the skim rusting the fixing

Actually, we though there's water ingress around the velux windows during snagging. They said it's not it, just the painter didn't apply enough layers of paint on the edges so the material behind it is showing through.

Now if I translate this in the light of your comments it sounds they should have used primer on the corner beads around velux windows and they haven't so those are rusting as well. (I attached a photo about this)

Are these huge issues? Should I get them to take the whole inside part of the roof apart and do it again? (I wonder if they will - and we're about to move in next week...)

IMG_20180502_105655.jpg

JimmyMW

xboxdad wrote: »

Actually, we though there's water ingress around the velux windows during snagging. They said it's not it, just the painter didn't apply enough layers of paint on the edges so the material behind it is showing through.

Now if I translate this in the light of your comments it sounds they should have used primer on the corner beads around velux windows and they haven't so those are rusting as well. (I attached a photo about this)

Are these huge issues? Should I get them to take the whole inside part of the roof apart and do it again? (I wonder if they will - and we're about to move in next week...)

IMG_20180502_105655.jpg

No i had a few of these spots showing through in the odd place or two and the painter sorted them out, nothing has appeared since, 3 months ago now. Just ask them to have the painter to sort them out

xboxdad

JimmyMW wrote: »

No i had a few of these spots showing through in the odd place or two and the painter sorted them out, nothing has appeared since, 3 months ago now. Just ask them to have the painter to sort them out

Thanks very much. Not only you deal with me patiently, but you also deliver good news in the end!

soundsham

The angle bead is galvanized metal and should not mark like this also the fixings to the ceiling shouldn’t either or maybe they used a different fixing
I would dig one out
It’s pribably a long street nail used instead of the correct fixing
This is a fault of who ever slabbed the ceiling
I had this problem previously on a housing scheme where a few ceilings were slabbed with inferior or contaminated screws
The solution is to clean off any residue and if there are only a couple of areas touch up the spots twice with alkaline resisting primer “sealpore” is the Dulux one
Then repaint over with standard emulsion
If there is the possibility of more spots occurring you could touch up the spots as before and repaint the ceiling in flat oil paint.
The latter is a bit of a pain but is used for stained ceilings
I would be getting the slabber to pay for the crap he caused.

Glass fused light

xboxdad wrote: »

Actually, we though there's water ingress around the velux windows during snagging. They said it's not it, just the painter didn't apply enough layers of paint on the edges so the material behind it is showing through...
IMG_20180502_105655.jpg

1 get a proper snag list done up
2 don't believe the builder it's in their best interest not to make work for themselves.
3 the first pics look like rust under the plaster from the fixings, check this by taping the plaster in a line across the mark and listen for a sound change hollow to solid where spot is to hollow
4 the pic ^^ looks like water damage so get a snagger who has a moisture Meter reader or buy one and check yourself.
The problem will be that rust, (if it is still rusting as the plaster is still damp and is porous) will likely expand under the skim and can eventually push the skim which is in the way off the wall so you could end up getting holes in a few years time.
Follow soundshams advice and check one spot.

xboxdad

Glass fused light wrote: »

1 get a proper snag list done up
2 don't believe the builder it's in their best interest not to make work for themselves.
3 the first pics look like rust under the plaster from the fixings, check this by taping the plaster in a line across the mark and listen for a sound change hollow to solid where spot is to hollow
4 the pic ^^ looks like water damage so get a snagger who has a moisture Meter reader or buy one and check yourself.
The problem will be that rust, (if it is still rusting as the plaster is still damp and is porous) will likely expand under the skim and can eventually push the skim which is in the way off the wall so you could end up getting holes in a few years time.
Follow soundshams advice and check one spot.

Thank you. Can you recommend a company that can carry out such inspection and issues me with a certified report that's accepted by authorities (court?).

I did have snagging carried out with a well respected surveyor. He said that all houses on our row have the water ingress looking stains on the beads around the window, so it's not water ingress.

As for the spots, those weren't there yet at the time of snagging or we didn't spot them.

Glass fused light

xboxdad wrote: »

Thank you. Can you recommend a company that can carry out such inspection and issues me with a certified report that's accepted by authorities (court?).

I did have snagging carried out with a well respected surveyor. He said that all houses on our row have the water ingress looking stains on the beads around the window, so it's not water ingress.

As for the spots, those weren't there yet at the time of snagging or we didn't spot them.

No.

What did he say they were from?

Welcome to the joys of home ownership.

xboxdad

Glass fused light wrote: »

No.

What did he say they were from?

Welcome to the joys of home ownership.

The foreman said it just needs more layers of paint as the material behind it is bleeding through. Wouldn't go into more details. "we see it all the time in houses"

The snagger didn't believe him on first snag, but on 2nd snag he said the same. All houses on our row have it, so it's nothing to be alarmed of.

Edit: I found this, sounds and looks similar (pic in the 5th post):
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/beading-showing.380317/

soundsham

xboxdad wrote: »

Thank you. Can you recommend a company that can carry out such inspection and issues me with a certified report that's accepted by authorities (court?).

I did have snagging carried out with a well respected surveyor. He said that all houses on our row have the water ingress looking stains on the beads around the window, so it's not water ingress

As for the spots, those weren't there yet at the time of snagging or we didn't spot them.

The angle beads are of poor quality or have been miss handled or stored badly
The reason they are galvanized is to not have this this crap from happening
Anyway your engineer not finding fault with them is a joke .... we won’t go there
Ask your engineer who you are paying enough for no doubt to dig out one of the rusty spots while you and the foreman are present and Get the foreman and himself to agree what the fault is there and then

If it’s the correct fixing used that is faulty the supplier should be contacted and shown their crap fixings and foot the repairs bill

If it’s a nail banged in the foreman should get the plastererto fix it and any others

If you have more appearing in the future at least you have somewhere to go

xboxdad

soundsham wrote: »

The angle beads are of poor quality or have been miss handled or stored badly
The reason they are galvanized is to not have this this crap from happening
Anyway your engineer not finding fault with them is a joke .... we won’t go there
Ask your engineer who you are paying enough for no doubt to dig out one of the rusty spots while you and the foreman are present and Get the foreman and himself to agree what the fault is there and then

If it’s the correct fixing used that is faulty the supplier should be contacted and shown their crap fixings and foot the repairs bill

If it’s a nail banged in the foreman should get the plastererto fix it and any others

If you have more appearing in the future at least you have somewhere to go

Thank you. Well, snagging is over, we have keys since 2 weeks now.
I'll keep documenting anything that appears for sure and will see if spots/stains keep popping up or it's dried out now and this all had stopped.
Hopefully the latter... Fingers crossed.

cork2

Hi OP,

I'd be nearly positive the first reply you got is correct. It's most likely long screws used with steel washers or mushrooms heads. These must be painted with a primer before skimming. I'm seeing this in one off houses all over the country where they didn't prime the fixings or missed a few. Any builders providers selling drywall fixings will comfirm this and is infact normally it's written on the invoice from the providers when you buy the fixings. It's not a huge issue just slow process for the builder to now stain block each mark and repaint any affected surfaces. The ceiling is still sound and the fixings won't be affected from the point of view of strength, it's surface rust/run off.

xboxdad

cork2 wrote: »

Hi OP,

I'd be nearly positive the first reply you got is correct. It's most likely long screws used with steel washers or mushrooms heads. These must be painted with a primer before skimming. I'm seeing this in one off houses all over the country where they didn't prime the fixings or missed a few. Any builders providers selling drywall fixings will comfirm this and is infact normally it's written on the invoice from the providers when you buy the fixings. It's not a huge issue just slow process for the builder to now stain block each mark and repaint any affected surfaces. The ceiling is still sound and the fixings won't be affected from the point of view of strength, it's surface rust/run off.

Thank you, this makes me worry less about them.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Cover the angle bead and stains in oil undercoat white and repeat if stain continues to show through. Finish with wall colour.

xboxdad

yxc3v685heo14f wrote: »

Cover the angle bead and stains in oil undercoat white and repeat if stain continues to show through. Finish with wall colour.

Thank you!