Considering a flying career

lufties

Hi all, I'm a 36 yr old male, no wife, no kids, no debt, 40k in the bank. Considering the pilot modular training. 

Any advice much appreciated.

L1011

40k isn't enough really

Do the medical FIRST rather than find you're not going to pass after tens of grand have been spent.

lufties

L1011 wrote: »

40k isn't enough really

Do the medical FIRST rather than find you're not going to pass after tens of grand have been spent.

Yeah, true. I can prob save up to 50k by the end of the year all going well. I'm just thinking my age, and wondering how long it will take to get from zero to hero. Also, what my opportunities will be after

Stovepipe

You have as much chance as anyone else. L1011 is dead right when he tells you to get the Class 1 done first, in case you have any underlying items that might knock a pilot career on the head. 36 is not too old by a long shot. If you have never flown before, go and get a trial lesson. You might find out that you get airsick or you can't cope with absorbing lessons, so get some air under you. After that, find a commercial pilot or two to talk to. The airlines will give you the basic outlines of what they want on their websites.

lufties

Stovepipe wrote: »

You have as much chance as anyone else. L1011 is dead right when he tells you to get the Class 1 done first, in case you have any underlying items that might knock a pilot career on the head. 36 is not too old by a long shot. If you have never flown before, go and get a trial lesson. You might find out that you get airsick or you can't cope with absorbing lessons, so get some air under you. After that, find a commercial pilot or two to talk to. The airlines will give you the basic outlines of what they want on their websites.

thank you. I've done flying spanner work (as a B1), and loved being in the flight deck..future is bleak in engineering. I've been procrastinating for years, but now seems like a good time.

The One Doctor

lufties wrote: »

Hi all, I'm a 36 yr old male, no wife, no kids, no debt, 40k in the bank. Considering the pilot modular training. 

Any advice much appreciated.

Get more in the bank. Like €80k more. And that still won't be enough. PPL, CPL/IR, probably instructor rating, fATPL, hour building, type rating - it mounts up very, very quickly.

Best thing to do get your Class 1 medical. If you pass that, start making serious inquiries. If you don't pass, well, private flying is fun but expensive.

Declan1

As others have said you’ll need more than 40k. You’re probably looking at a minimum spend of around 60k on the modular route. But bear in mind there’s a reasonable chance that you’ll also have to fund a type rating. Things are beginning to change in favour of the applicants - Ryanair recently reduced the cost of the type rating to 5k plus a bond, but you’d need to consider the possibility of having to pay up to 30k more for a type rating. Also factor in the loss of or reduced income if you take unpaid time off work to complete the CPL and IR elements of the course.

Great advice above re the Class 1 medical - there are horror stories of people who’ve sunk funds into training only to subsequently fail the medical. You’ll probably be fine but best to check first. You should plan on doing your initial medical in the state in which you intend to ultimately have your licence issued.

I’d be hesitant to use a CAA (UK) school with the uncertainty over Brexit.

Make sure to do serious research into flight schools that you are considering using. Ideally talk with some former students to get their opinions.

It would be worth attending one of the Professional Flight Training Exhibitions. You’ve missed the Dublin one that was in March but they’re held in the UK on a regular basis.

This article might be of interest. http://aspireaviation.ie/blog/a-model-to-explain-pilot-employability/

Best of luck.

lufties

Declan1 wrote: »

As others have said you’ll need more than 40k. You’re probably looking at a minimum spend of around 60k on the modular route. But bear in mind there’s a reasonable chance that you’ll also have to fund a type rating. Things are beginning to change in favour of the applicants - Ryanair recently reduced the cost of the type rating to 5k plus a bond, but you’d need to consider the possibility of having to pay up to 30k more for a type rating.  Also factor in the loss of or reduced income if you take unpaid time off work to complete the CPL and IR elements of the course.

Great advice above re the Class 1 medical -  there are horror stories of people who’ve sunk funds into training only to subsequently fail the medical. You’ll probably be fine but best to check first. You should plan on doing your initial medical in the state in which you intend to ultimately have your licence issued.

I’d be hesitant to use a CAA (UK) school with the uncertainty over Brexit.

Make sure to do serious research into flight schools that you are considering using. Ideally talk with some former students to get their opinions.

It would be worth attending one of the Professional Flight Training Exhibitions. You’ve missed the Dublin one that was in March but they’re held in the UK on a regular basis.

This article might be of interest. http://aspireaviation.ie/blog/a-model-to-explain-pilot-employability/

Best of luck.

Cheers Declan, I'm currently doing an MSc from that exact Uni at the moment, so hopefully it will help. 
The medical/training school stuff confuses me. I've heard that employers prefer that you stick with the one training school throughout, therefore I guess you should choose wisely. Also, as a holder of an IAA B1 Engineer licence, do I need to follow suit with the Pilot's one?

Stovepipe

No. Engineer's license has no bearing on CPL whatsoever and you will get no exemptions from any of the exams despite some of your modules meeting or exceeding syllabus/exam requirements for fATPL exams.
In your planned budget, you must consider the cost of renewal/sustaining your ME-IR, the most expensive part of the license. You may not get a job right out of flight school so you will have to renew, so bear that in mind.

Declan1

lufties wrote: »

Cheers Declan, I'm currently doing an MSc from that exact Uni at the moment, so hopefully it will help. 
The medical/training school stuff confuses me. I've heard that employers prefer that you stick with the one training school throughout, therefore I guess you should choose wisely. Also, as a holder of an IAA B1 Engineer licence, do I need to follow suit with the Pilot's one?

You’re probably aware that there’s different levels of Medical, it’s a class 1 that you need. If you are planning on training in Ireland you could contact either the Mater Private or Charter Medical in Smithfield. Your medical is like the foundation block of your licence, it will need to be in the country where you are hoping to get the licence - it is possible to move it but a bit of hassle.

Have a look at the blog on the website linked above, there’s an article there on integrated training vs modular. With modular you can use different ATOs for various elements of training but a bit of consistency is good and a reference from a school is more meaningful if you’ve completed a substantial amount of your training there.

lufties

Declan1 wrote: »

You’re probably aware that there’s different levels of Medical, it’s a class 1 that you need. If you are planning on training in Ireland you could contact either the Mater Private or Charter Medical in Smithfield. Your medical is like the foundation block of your licence, it will need to be in the country where you are hoping to get the licence - it is possible to move it but a bit of hassle.

Have a look at the blog on the website linked above, there’s an article there on integrated training vs modular. With modular you can use different ATOs for various elements of training but a bit of consistency is good and a reference from a school is more meaningful if you’ve completed a substantial amount of your training there.

Thanks, I'd say I'll do it in England tbh.

smurfjed

@Declan1 pointed out, there is confusion about EASA licences issued by the UK post BREXIT, so if you decide to do the medical and training under the UK EASA/CAA system, you might end up having that licence downgraded to a CAA National Licence and requiring validations for other parts of Europe. Be careful.

lufties

smurfjed wrote: »

@Declan1 pointed out, there is confusion about EASA licences issued by the UK post BREXIT, so if you decide to do the medical and training under the UK EASA/CAA system, you might end up having that licence downgraded to a CAA National Licence and requiring validations for other parts of Europe. Be careful.

Jesus, what a mess. I might use a Uk training school but obtain an IAA licence.

smurfjed

That might not be possible, with an EASA licence you could just transfer authority from the CAA to IAA, but if the UK issue a national licence, then you might be required to convert that to an EASA/IAA licence which wont be cheap due to you low hours.
Its a vague area as it hasnt happened yet, but considering that your training shall take a couple of years, is it a risk that you are willing to take?

Dingle_berry

smurfjed wrote: »

to convert that to an EASA/IAA licence which wont be cheap due to you low hours.

Howcome low hours would affect the cost of changing the state of a license?

OP the stuff about brexit isn't just typical brexit scaremongering. Under EASA the theory syllabus for the PPL is the same and exam certs are supposed to be interchangable. (Irish students used CAA schools for theory as they could sit the exams straight away). The IAA abruptly stopped accepting CAA PPL theory certs a month or so ago, with no forenotice or warning.

smurfjed

Howcome low hours would affect the cost of changing the state of a license?

I used the term CONVERT, if he needs to convert a CAA National licence to an IAA/EASA licence, the requirements are based on hours, the lower the hours the more exams etc you need to do.

lufties

Dingle_berry wrote: »

Howcome low hours would affect the cost of changing the state of a license?

OP the stuff about brexit isn't just typical brexit scaremongering. Under EASA the theory syllabus for the PPL is the same and exam certs are supposed to be interchangable. (Irish students used CAA schools for theory as they could sit the exams straight away). The IAA abruptly stopped accepting CAA PPL theory certs a month or so ago, with no forenotice or warning.

That's a tough one. I was thinking to do the full training in England (avoiding rip off Ireland), then bang it on an Irish licence. In fairness, i'd say there would be more hullabaloo if it was a big issue.
Interesting, I worked in Malaysia some years ago as a B1 engineer. The Malaysians wouldn't accept any other licence other than a CAA one. Also, in Australia the UK licence carries more weight than the Irish one.

Stovepipe

Examine all the cadetship options out there. Your age is not a limitation but they operate different bonding schemes. Check out all the available cadet schemes in Ireland and the UK........if you are self-improving, you will need to build hours at several stages of the process so investigate hour building by hiring block-bookings. As an engineer, you might be able to trade work for flying. Investigate the third level operators in the UK, such as the air taxi companies, to see if you can come to an arrangement with them.....there are several low cost simulators available in Ireland so investigate those for instrument training later and retaining currency.

Declan1

lufties wrote: »

That's a tough one. I was thinking to do the full training in England (avoiding rip off Ireland), then bang it on an Irish licence. In fairness, i'd say there would be more hullabaloo if it was a big issue.
Interesting, I worked in Malaysia some years ago as a B1 engineer. The Malaysians wouldn't accept any other licence other than a CAA one. Also, in Australia the UK licence carries more weight than the Irish one.

Nobody really knows what the impact of Brexit will be, you don't want to be stuck in the middle of it. Check out this from EASA https://www.easa.europa.eu/brexit-negotiations

lufties

Stovepipe wrote: »

Examine all the cadetship options out there. Your age is not a limitation but they operate different bonding schemes. Check out all the available cadet schemes in Ireland and the UK........if you are self-improving, you will need to build hours at several stages of the process so investigate hour building by hiring block-bookings. As an engineer, you might be able to trade work for flying. Investigate the third level operators in the UK, such as the air taxi companies, to see if you can come to an arrangement with them.....there are several low cost simulators available in Ireland so investigate those for instrument training later and retaining currency.

Cheers. I was thinking to do the ppl first in the UK. Then get the hours build in the U.S or south Africa. I had a look at cadetships, city jet's is 110k or something ridiculous. EI is basically a lottery, not too many others offer them bar EZE maybe. I find with cadet ships, your jumping into massive debt to do the integrated. With modular you can do it at your own pace while working. If I got the whole lot for 60k I'd be happy.
Saying that, I'm doing an MSC too so it'll be a tough slog

martinsvi

The One Doctor wrote: »

Get more in the bank. Like €80k more. And that still won't be enough. .

I would just like to put this stereotype to bed, I spent around 55k on a modular path, all in, including MCC/JOC from Simtech. I got as far as individual interviews with AerLingus, unfortunately didn't make it, got an offer from Ryanair but ended up with a decent airline, decent contract, bonded TR flying Dash Q400

Only when I finished my training I realized there were ways I could save even more by doing my initial PPL outside Europe and - for hour building - renting planes from UK aircraft dealers, you literally can get a C152 for as little as 40 pounds per tach hour if you buy them in bulk.

45-50k should be doable, if you're smart about it and are not shy to travel around. Have a look at South Africa for example

btw my first airline CVs were sent out when I was already 30, so you're not that much older than me. If this is what you want, go ahead and do it, I've never looked back. 12 days off in July, 70 flying hours, most weekends off, bills paid, life is good.

lufties

martinsvi wrote: »

I would just like to put this stereotype to bed, I spent around 55k on a modular path, all in, including MCC/JOC from Simtech. I got as far as individual interviews with AerLingus, unfortunately didn't make it, got an offer from Ryanair but ended up with a decent airline, decent contract, bonded TR flying Dash Q400

Only when I finished my training I realized there were ways I could save even more by doing my initial PPL outside Europe and - for hour building - renting planes from UK aircraft dealers, you literally can get a C152 for as little as 40 pounds per tach hour if you buy them in bulk.

45-50k should be doable, if you're smart about it and are not shy to travel around. Have a look at South Africa for example

btw my first airline CVs were sent out when I was already 30, so you're not that much older than me. If this is what you want, go ahead and do it, I've never looked back. 12 days off in July, 70 flying hours, most weekends off, bills paid, life is good.

Shhh Martin, you can't be too positive thanks for the advice. Just out of interest, why did the lingus one go south?

martinsvi

lufties wrote: »

Shhh Martin, you can't be too positive thanks for the advice. Just out of interest, why did the lingus one go south?

I don't really know, it's not like they would tell you. I personally thought all the exercises and interviews went really well, the vibe was great, but such is life - I mean when you have 4000 applications battling for 100 positions the game is against you.

Having followed the pprune discussion for the entire length of the process it didn't appear to me that there were ever 100 positions available in the first place, but who knows.. Ireland is a small country and I know quite a good number of skilled pilots that went there for the interviews, don't know anyone who got the gig.

anyhow everything turned out even better anyway, so I'm not even sorry.

martinsvi

generally I agree to most other things that are already mentioned here, particularly the importance of getting the class 1 medical cannot be overstated.
One piece of advice that I've never seen on any of the forums thou is this - no matter which airline you will start with, as an FO with no experience, your salary will probably not be quite what you've been used to (if you have 40k in your account that is..). After you finish your training, make sure there's still couple of grand left in your piggy bank to support you for a couple of months. How big of a cushion you will need will depend on the airline and, in the likely scenario of relocation - the cost of living in your new country.