Post Primary Additional Subjects

alampshade

Dear all,

Hello my name is Fionn and I'll be starting my PME in Maynooth this year.

I'm looking for information about doing additional subjects once the masters is finished.
As it stands I'm qualified to teach CSPE, Classical Studies, and Politics and Society.
Understandably, these are not good choices when it comes to job searching so I'm wondering how I can apply for additional subjects following the completion of my PME.

Any advice would be more than welcome.

mtoutlemonde

alampshade wrote: »

Dear all,

Hello my name is Fionn and I'll be starting my PME in Maynooth this year.

I'm looking for information about doing additional subjects once the masters is finished.
As it stands I'm qualified to teach CSPE, Classical Studies, and Politics and Society.
Understandably, these are not good choices when it comes to job searching so I'm wondering how I can apply for additional subjects following the completion of my PME.

Any advice would be more than welcome.

Hi Fionn, are you sure you want to spend two years getting a qualification that definitely will not get you a full time job? I know people (myself included) who have good subjects who are yet to get that 'permanent' job.

CSPE is not going to be a subject after next year. Politics and Society is only being rolled out and this year was the first year examined (I think), there's no guarantee of continuation. I just checked the statistics for last year for Classical Studies - 563 students sat the paper, so you would be very lucky to get a school offering it even for your PME.

To get an additional subject, you have to have 60ECTS and fulfil any other requirements the Teaching Council deem necessary. You can find that list and requirements on the TC website.

Sorry I'm not more positive but you don't even have one in demand subject. It's better to know now than later. When I did the dip, there was a student who only realised at the end of the dip that he couldn't register for any subject as his degree didn't qualify. Best of luck either way.

Dylan94

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the above poster.

The subjects that you are currently eligible to teach are not employable. I know people who had an in demand subject and classics, however, because they had classics they found it very difficult to even secure a school for the PME. There were also a few people on the PME with classics.

If you have a look at this link, you will see that there are currently zero jobs available for teachers with classics. If you search for CSPE, you will see that there are a total of 23 jobs available, but they all require another subject.
https://www.educationposts.ie/posts/second_level?sortBy=date_posted&sortDir=0&county_id=&vacancy_category_id=&post_type_id=&subject_id%5B%5D=13&q=search?sortBy=date_posted&sortDir=0&county_id=&vacancy_category_id=&post_type_id=&subject_id%5B%5D=13

I don't want to sound so negative I do just want to be honest and make sure that your really do know the situation that you would be getting your self into. It would likely be the case that you will have to do casual subbing for a number of years before even getting a few hours of your own (possibly in resource).

If you want to add on another subject there are a number of ways of doing it. You could do the required modules through the open university (although it is quite expensive), you could do a higher diploma in an IT or private college (for example the Higher Diploma in Business at DBS would allow you to teach business). You could sign up for it module by module at one of the universities. What every way that you do it, it will be very expensive and time consuming. You need to really consider if it is realistic before you start.

I really hope that it all goes well for you, and that you figure something out, just make sure you fully consider it and are ready in case of the worst case.

alampshade

Thanks for the replies guys.

Oh I'm fully aware they're unemployable subjects, knew that before I went for it. Getting the PME in the first place is more important and England is desperate for teachers if I can't find work here.

No, my concern was how to do extra courses once the PME is done. The TC got back to me but they were a bit vague on the details. Basically it came down to- do the PME, then do extra subjects.

I'll have another look at the TC website and see if there are specific courses for after the PME.

Thanks again.

mtoutlemonde

alampshade wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys.

Oh I'm fully aware they're unemployable subjects, knew that before I went for it. Getting the PME in the first place is more important and England is desperate for teachers if I can't find work here.

No, my concern was how to do extra courses once the PME is done. The TC got back to me but they were a bit vague on the details. Basically it came down to- do the PME, then do extra subjects.

I'll have another look at the TC website and see if there are specific courses for after the PME.

Thanks again.

Are those subjects in demand in England? Are you going to spend your career over there?

One piece of advice, if you are going to study for another subject, do it in Maynooth as the fees will be reduced as you are already a student. I wasn't aware of that when I was doing my dip.

What subjects are you thinking of taking up? Please don't bother with English/ History/Geography as they are over subscribed and His/Geo have become optional subjects at JC now. Maths/Languages are always in demand.

Would you be more suited to primary level? Have you HL Irish for LC? If so, you could apply for the Hibernia course. If not, maybe consider doing it?

Icsics

Fionn, as others have said you won't get a job with those subjects. It's an expensive 2years for little chance of employment. If you're looking at UK anyway why not do a one yr course there? Or primary here would be a much better option.

alampshade

England definitely has more demand. Much bigger country with a teaching shortage. Although it doesn't pay as well as Ireland and it's supposedly a tougher position.

I don't want to teach primary and doing a PGCE in England won't allow me to teach here.
Doing the PME allows me the option of either Ireland or England.

I'm definitely taking up history, demand or not.

mtoutlemonde

alampshade wrote: »

England definitely has more demand. Much bigger country with a teaching shortage. Although it doesn't pay as well as Ireland and it's supposedly a tougher position.

I don't want to teach primary and doing a PGCE in England won't allow me to teach here.
Doing the PME allows me the option of either Ireland or England.

I'm definitely taking up history, demand or not.

You must have money to burn and best of luck to you. I've been in a lot of schools and the casual subs are always English, History & Geography graduates as they can't get work of their own. At least having English, you have a chance of picking up maternity leaves etc. Would you not consider this? Correct me if I'm wrong but would classics have a large amount of history in the syllabus where a principal might decide that you have adequate knowledge to teach History.

A PGCE will qualify you to teach here. You have to do your NQT year in England and complete the History of Education exam here for the Teaching Council.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Did you get a school to take you on for your 1st year, teaching those subjects?

I know there is an add on course in DCU for Maths , part time, that is practically free, but you have to be teaching in a school to do it and you more than likely won't get a job teaching those subjects.

Also in UCC you can do a one year full time course in Irish to add on to your qualification.

alampshade

Yup, my local school will take me on for CSPE and History (instead of SPHE).

Oh okay, so they're really encouraging the maths route. Might be an idea for ordinary level.

Languages are a no-go I'm afraid. That part of my brain doesn't function over well.

mtoutlemonde

Jimmy Jealous Professor wrote: »

Did you get a school to take you on for your 1st year, teaching those subjects?

I know there is an add on course in DCU for Maths , part time, that is practically free, but you have to be teaching in a school to do it and you more than likely won't get a job teaching those subjects.

Also in UCC you can do a one year full time course in Irish to add on to your qualification.

That would be a good one to have. Just be aware that you would have some of your teaching interview in Irish so would want to be fairly fluent.

mtoutlemonde

alampshade wrote: »

Yup, my local school will take me on for CSPE and History (instead of SPHE).

Oh okay, so they're really encouraging the maths route. Might be an idea for ordinary level.

Languages are a no-go I'm afraid. That part of my brain doesn't function over well.

Can't do that I'm afraid. Either you qualified to teach your subject up to and including Higher Level or your not.

alampshade

Okay that's great to know, thank you!

Dylan94

Jimmy Jealous Professor wrote: »

Did you get a school to take you on for your 1st year, teaching those subjects?

I know there is an add on course in DCU for Maths , part time, that is practically free, but you have to be teaching in a school to do it and you more than likely won't get a job teaching those subjects.

Also in UCC you can do a one year full time course in Irish to add on to your qualification.

Do you know what that course in DCU is called?

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Dylan94 wrote: »

Do you know what that course in DCU is called?

No I don't sorry. I know a teacher in my school did it. You have to be teaching in a school, she seemed to have a lot of assignments and exams. Not sure if it was 1 year or two and you got your money you paid back at the end if you completed and passed (possibly €500) .

Not meaning to hijack the thread but my degree would allow me to teach Biology. However it had over 60 credits for Geography and I have a H Dip in another area worth 60 credits so would I be able to do Geography and the H Dip subject as well?

Postgrad10

Do you mean a higher diploma in arts/ higher diploma Business/ in another subject or do you mean a higher diploma in Education ?

Postgrad10

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Do you mean a higher diploma in arts/ higher diploma Business/ in another subject or do you mean a higher diploma in Education ?

The former. Computer Science.

mtoutlemonde

Jimmy Jealous Professor wrote: »

No I don't sorry. I know a teacher in my school did it. You have to be teaching in a school, she seemed to have a lot of assignments and exams. Not sure if it was 1 year or two and you got your money you paid back at the end if you completed and passed (possibly €500) .

I'm not aware of the course in DCU but there is a free course in UL to qualify you in maths, once you are teaching at least one class of maths a week. I know a few people who did it and it definitely isn't easy.

mtoutlemonde

Deleted User wrote: »

Not meaning to hijack the thread but my degree would allow me to teach Biology. However it had over 60 credits for Geography and I have a H Dip in another area worth 60 credits so would I be able to do Geography and the H Dip subject as well?

It's not that easy. The Teaching Council have a list of requirements that have to be fulfilled before registration. You will find that here: http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/en/Publications/Registration/Documents/Curricular-Subject-Requirments-after-January-2017.pdf

mtoutlemonde

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

It's not that easy. The Teaching Council have a list of requirements that have to be fulfilled before registration. You will find that here: http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/en/Publications/Registration/Documents/Curricular-Subject-Requirments-after-January-2017.pdf

It's pretty funny reading that, seems to say because I did a few Geography modules here and there that I can register for it but my Diploma in Computer Science isn't enough to teach ICT. Unless the "or modular equivalent" is the get-out clause.

mtoutlemonde

Deleted User wrote: »

It's pretty funny reading that, seems to say because I did a few Geography modules here and there that I can register for it but my Diploma in Computer Science isn't enough to teach ICT. Unless the "or modular equivalent" is the get-out clause.

I think you may misinterpreting what those requirements say. You won't be able to register unless you have 60 credits in a subject, whatever extra requirements they state and 10 credits have to be from first year.

As far as I know diplomas are not accepted only if they are part of a degree programme i.e. progression from diploma to degree.

You will also find with the Teaching Council that there is definitely no get-out clause, they are extremely strict when it comes to registration of subjects. If you don't meet all requirements, they won't register you.

Postgrad10

Thanks. Maybe your higher diploma in 60 credits of computer science at level 9 on the NFQ and therefor doesn't meet the level 8 requirements of a computer science degree ( in the opinion of the teaching council of course). I take it you sent them the breakdown of that higher diploma and they assessed it? Did it meet anything from p21 of the following? http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/en/Publications/Registration/Documents/Curricular-Subject-Requirments-after-January-2017.pdf

gaiscioch

alampshade wrote: »

Dear all,

Hello my name is Fionn and I'll be starting my PME in Maynooth this year.

I'm looking for information about doing additional subjects once the masters is finished.
As it stands I'm qualified to teach CSPE, Classical Studies, and Politics and Society.
Understandably, these are not good choices when it comes to job searching so I'm wondering how I can apply for additional subjects following the completion of my PME.

Any advice would be more than welcome.

I was in your boat; I did the Dip knowing I would need to get ECTS/degree credits to get another subject. I did the Higher Diploma in Arts in UCD (but I think the other NUI colleges also offer the course) over two years, doing 30 ECTS per year and going in every Tuesday and Thursday night between 6pm and 9pm during term. You will need 60 credits from 2nd & 3rd year, and 10 credits from 1st year. It's €490 per 5 credits, so it will cost you €6.860 in tuition fees alone to get the 70 credits necessary for a second teaching subject. I got them out of the way in the two years following the Dip.

To get the PME in UCD it will cost you €12,200 over a further two years. So, in tuition fees alone you will be paying €19,060 of your after tax income to become a qualified teacher with a second subject. On top of that, you'll have to pay a 'Student Contribution' if you go to UCD of €1000 or so over those 4 years (It was €254 this year alone). So, €20,000.


If you finally get a job, you will be paying 10% tax on top of your conventional PAYE/PRSI under the guise of the "Pension Related Deduction", which despite the name doesn't go near your pension. That is now renamed as the [url=file:///C:/Users/Fionnán/Downloads/Topical-Issues-19-Pension-Contribution-Rates.pdf]Additional Superannuation Contribution (ASC)[/url] and 'is going to be a permanent fixture on the salary of every single teacher in Ireland.' (Source)

UCD: Higher Diploma in Arts

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Could you not do a "conversion course" qualification in a single year that would make you more employable and save you a lot of money?

williaint

You can get a £26k tax free bursary for Latin / Classics if you train in England. A lot of the private schools in England offer this subject so everyone I knew who trained in it got a job. Coming from someone who trained and worked in England, it is definitely tough over there but as least you'll be earning all the way through and you can then add on subjects by distance. The Open University is also cheaper if you're living in the UK.

Corkgirl18

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I'm not aware of the course in DCU but there is a free course in UL to qualify you in maths, once you are teaching at least one class of maths a week. I know a few people who did it and it definitely isn't easy.

I think ye are talking about the same course, DCU is just a local centre for the course. The course is now finished. The current 1st years are the last cohort.

Postgrad10

I have looked in that h dip arts in UCD myself. Be careful that your subject modules are actually on it the evenings as the poster above said. They advertise it as en evening course but a lot of the time they consider evening to be 3-4 in the afternoon. Leaving it impossible to travel from anywhere but Dublin to atttend on time. And very difficult if you are counting on subbing to pay for it.