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Being let go... again

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  • 14-06-2018 7:31pm
    #1
    johnmck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 415 ✭✭


    Think I'm done with teaching. I've been teaching now for the best part of 10 years. First 5 on a more part time basis. The past 3 full time.

    Being let go again by another ETB after serving 2 years with them. It had happened before eith another ETB when I came close to CID entitlement . They are refusing to interview me for a post that has come up in one of the subjects I teach in the school that I'm in! I predicted this. It's so I won't acquire a CID. I don't want to go into details about which ETB and my subjects as I don't want to expose myself.

    I'm guessing I'm not the first who has experienced this and won't be the last. Would like to hear other people's stories. Maybe we could get a journalist to write a piece!


Comments

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    #2
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Why not contact your union? If there is a position with your subject then u should be interviewed as long as there were no objective grounds to your previous tenure.


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    #3
    johnmck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 415 ✭✭johnmck


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Why not contact your union? If there is a position with your subject then u should be interviewed as long as there were no objective grounds to your previous tenure.

    Exactly what I thought. Not only is there no objectives grounds , I've got glowing references! TUI are extremely slow to respond


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    #4
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    johnmck wrote: »
    Exactly what I thought. Not only is there no objectives grounds , I've got glowing references! TUI are extremely slow to respond

    Are you still an employee of the school (i.e. your contract runs out in August).
    If they are not allowing you to interview then I smell a rat.
    Keep contacting the union, you've paid them enough money every year, now it's time they live up to their promises to act on your behalf. Call in to the head office if you have to (but keep it civil with a smile at all times).
    Meantime if you smell that something is fishy then there is every chance that they will cock up in the interviewing procedure.
    Look up the procedure for recruitment (through the tui website, or google searches). I just had a quick look there and this might be something

    https://www.education.ie/en/schools-colleges/information/employing-a-teacher/rules_programmes_appendix_d.pdf
    4.1.4. Where an employer proposes to renew a fixed-term contract, the fixed term employee shall be informed in writing by the employer of the objective grounds justifying the renewal of the fixed-term contract and the failure to offer a contract of indefinite duration before the date of renewal.

    Would that mean they have to notify you in writing of the grounds as to why they are not offering you a CID before your contract runs out?
    Maybe you could fire off an email and letter asking if you are being considered for CID next year?

    Not in secondary... but I have heard of someone in third level who went and hired an employment solicitor on a no-win-no-fee basis. If you wait till after the interview has taken place then the school might be too happy to kick legal proceedings down the road and tie it up for years (especially if you never even went for interview and have nothing in writing about not being allowed to attend the interview). But if they sense that you know your rights then they might find it more difficult to refuse you.
    Watch how the post is advertised too.
    They might make the post out of your reach by changing the subject requirements slightly (best one advertised I've seen was 'an ability to teach Law to transition year an advantage':rolleyes:).

    If you've gotten good references and nothing to loose you may as well make their life a little difficult.


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    #5
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭ethical


    My sincerest apologies! But to be honest after watching Primtime Investigates tonight re the level of corruption within ETBs its only a matter of time before more of them are outed! (Yes, I know I keep banging on and on about it but slowly there is a flicker of light at the end of a long tunnel)


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    #6
    johnmck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 415 ✭✭johnmck


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Are you still an employee of the school (i.e. your contract runs out in August).
    If they are not allowing you to interview then I smell a rat.
    Keep contacting the union, you've paid them enough money every year, now it's time they live up to their promises to act on your behalf. Call in to the head office if you have to (but keep it civil with a smile at all times).
    Meantime if you smell that something is fishy then there is every chance that they will cock up in the interviewing procedure.
    Look up the procedure for recruitment (through the tui website, or google searches). I just had a quick look there and this might be something

    https://www.education.ie/en/schools-colleges/information/employing-a-teacher/rules_programmes_appendix_d.pdf
    4.1.4. Where an employer proposes to renew a fixed-term contract, the fixed term employee shall be informed in writing by the employer of the objective grounds justifying the renewal of the fixed-term contract and the failure to offer a contract of indefinite duration before the date of renewal.

    Would that mean they have to notify you in writing of the grounds as to why they are not offering you a CID before your contract runs out?
    Maybe you could fire off an email and letter asking if you are being considered for CID next year?

    Not in secondary... but I have heard of someone in third level who went and hired an employment solicitor on a no-win-no-fee basis. If you wait till after the interview has taken place then the school might be too happy to kick legal proceedings down the road and tie it up for years (especially if you never even went for interview and have nothing in writing about not being allowed to attend the interview). But if they sense that you know your rights then they might find it more difficult to refuse you.
    Watch how the post is advertised too.
    They might make the post out of your reach by changing the subject requirements slightly (best one advertised I've seen was 'an ability to teach Law to transition year an advantage':rolleyes:).

    If you've gotten good references and nothing to loose you may as well make their life a little difficult.

    I've been employed the past 2 years to teach my main subject , but I'm also teaching my other subject in the school, which I applied for the new post. I'm on my 2nd specific purpose full time contract. They know if they employ me under another full time contract then im automatically entitled to a CID. I'm in touch with someone in TUI, but the urgency does not appear to be there with them. I'll have to call into TUI I think.


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    #7
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,240 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    johnmck wrote: »
    I've been employed the past 2 years to teach my main subject , but I'm also teaching my other subject in the school, which I applied for the new post. I'm on my 2nd specific purpose full time contract. They know if they employ me under another full time contract then im automatically entitled to a CID. I'm in touch with someone in TUI, but the urgency does not appear to be there with them. I'll have to call into TUI I think.

    Call and keep calling. Walk in, again and again. You've paid your membership, they should act.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #8
    CraftySue
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭CraftySue


    I'm not tottaly aufait with contracts, and am very open to correction, but you said your contract was "specific purpose", from my understanding specific purpose means you are covering someone else's hours, for example job share, maternity leave etc, and therefore your hours are not your own. With ETB with those hours you could be covering for a number of people, from a number of different schools/centres. If your contract state RPT or Fixed term, I understand these are your hours, and after 2 years, you can look for a CID. As I was saying contract types are as clear as mud, so I'm open for correction.


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    #9
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    ethical wrote: »
    My sincerest apologies! But to be honest after watching Primtime Investigates tonight re the level of corruption within ETBs its only a matter of time before more of them are outed! (Yes, I know I keep banging on and on about it but slowly there is a flicker of light at the end of a long tunnel)

    There was nothing in the report about ETBs, but rather a very large case of inappropriate behaviour surrounding one person and his family which appears to be under review by the Gardai and DESk. The CAG audits identified the issues which as such is their role.


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    #10
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    I'm not a teacher, but as a tax payer I am very concerned to hear that schools are refusing interviews to people, I would expect that the selection process be open to all and the best person selected, not limited. Also to refuse someone to me is borderline discrimination, how can one person be told outright no over another person without any type of selection process!


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    #11
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    TallGlass wrote: »
    I'm not a teacher, but as a tax payer I am very concerned to hear that schools are refusing interviews to people, I would expect that the selection process be open to all and the best person selected, not limited. Also to refuse someone to me is borderline discrimination, how can one person be told outright no over another person without any type of selection process!

    The selection process is open to everyone. Principals have to shortlist or they could be holding interviews for days for a job with a small number of hours. There are many reasons to shortlist e.g. qualifications, teaching council registration with correct subject combination, experience, extra curricular. Then the interview with the best person being selected.


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    #12
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    TheDriver wrote: »
    There was nothing in the report about ETBs, but rather a very large case of inappropriate behaviour surrounding one person and his family which appears to be under review by the Gardai and DESk. The CAG audits identified the issues which as such is their role.

    It's a bit more than than just one person or one family! The ETB should have oversight and accountability measures in place so one person is not engaging in corrupt practices with state funds. Either the board of the ETB in question is grossly negligent and incompetent in its oversight of finances and procurement, or more than one person has questions to answer in how this was allowed to happen. Many people connected with this have resigned from the ETB when hard questions were aked about their knowledge of this corruption. More than one person is implicated. Things have only come to light due to whistleblowers not due to standard auditing practices.

    Unfortunately OP I think the fact your contracts are "specific purpose" may be your downfall here. But it should state the nature of the specific purpose - you're entitled to know what it is ie sick leave, career break, secondment, temporary additional funding etc. Some of these contracts are eligible for CID.


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