Worried about son

anon999

hi all,

My son is 10 years old and is suffering from OCD. About 9 months ago he was the most carefree child in the world but we started to notice a change in his behavior when he started to check his homework constantly in the evening. This progressed to where we are now where he is obsessed with order, ensuring doors are closed, switches are turned off, seeks constant reassurance, and he will get out of bed constantly to keep checking things. So, its tiring for him and for us, but especially for him. We have engaged with CALMS and he is due to begin treatment shortly.

I have spoken to his teacher whom he hates (he has liked the other teachers he had) - it does seem that she has a harsher style than the teacher he had last year, she may not even realise it herself but this does have an effect on kids. She did tell me she would have a quiet word to reassure him that he wouldn't be put outside the staff room door (he gets very worried about this), and she did but since then she has threatened him (and other kids) several times to do just this for what seems like trivial stuff in a 4th class in primary (speaking out of turn, etc.)

My issue is that I feel partly responsible for what is going on. Even though the issue started at school, I feel there is something else going on also. I suffered badly from social anxiety in the past, it was bad when we first moved out here 9 years ago and this has affected relationships to this day (one of the neighbours across the road still avoids me because I was very poor at saluting in the past). My son doesn't get invited to his friends’ houses and when I hear him telling me that some classmates met up outside school, I feel really bad for him because I feel that it’s their parents way of avoiding any interaction with me. When we went to school events in the past, I used to get quite anxious, feel that people just didn't like me, could say something stupid, felt very self-conscious (suffer a bit with rosacea, thanks Celtic skin), etc. I've improved a lot since but I feel like too many bridges have been burned.

My son wouldn't be aware that I suffer from SA and he does have other friends (outside school) whom he sees now and again and that is good and he is actively involved in other sports and music so he is quite active.

I suppose you are wondering what the question is here and I'm not sure, maybe I just needed to get it off my chest but has anyone ever experienced anything similar or have any suggestions on how to improve things?

LegacyUser

Yep, I live daily with this. My son is 12 and has mild autism. He gets upset seeing his friends regularly exclude him he's very sensitive to it. He is very good at making friends but he can't maintain the friendships. I feel it's my fault as I feel he is very similar to me and he perhaps learnt this behaviour from me. I'm crap at maintaining friendships too!

Your certainly not alone.

blinkwink

Hey, first off I would just like to say that it’s fanstatic that you are engaging with services for your son’s OCD. I have OCD and suffered since 11 and I only got help a few years ago so from someone who has been in that situation, I think that’s great.

With regards to SA and your sons social interactions, it sounds like you would like your son to meet with school friends outside of school? I suppose my first question would be has inviting your son’s friends to your own home worked?

anon999

blinkwink wrote: »

Hey, first off I would just like to say that it’s fanstatic that you are engaging with services for your son’s OCD. I have OCD and suffered since 11 and I only got help a few years ago so from someone who has been in that situation, I think that’s great.

With regards to SA and your sons social interactions, it sounds like you would like your son to meet with school friends outside of school? I suppose my first question would be has inviting your son’s friends to your own home worked?

Thanks for the reply. Yes, we have invited other kids, there is one lad who is in the year below him. The problem is that its never reciprocated.

MissShihTzu

How about enrolling your son in some clubs? What does he like to do? Play football, GAA, chess, athletics? The Scouts would be very good for him too. It'll give him an interest and the chance to make friends out of school. School isn't the only place he can have friends!

I would also make an appointment to see the school head. Is there a chance your son could move to a different class? Have a chat with the headmaster and see.

Good luck with the treatment!

bp

I cannot comment on the OCD or SA but there could be a number of reasons your son isn't invited back to people's homes - lack of space, embarrassment of ones home (could be a sick parent, alcohol, single working parent so its messy etc), don't like having people over etc.

I invite people and their kids over all the time because I have the space and love having people over, only two parents have reciprocated but I don't mind. Just keep inviting people over and take small steps and them in your house will allow you see how he plays with others to see if he can socially play the games with them correctly

anon999

At the moment he is involved in Taekwondo, and while its stopped for the summer now, he does swimming lessons and violin. I must encourage him to try the team sports also as that will build his confidence although there are only so many things you can do when both parents are working and there are 2 other kids to look after as well!

anon999

bp wrote: »

I cannot comment on the OCD or SA but there could be a number of reasons your son isn't invited back to people's homes - lack of space, embarrassment of ones home (could be a sick parent, alcohol, single working parent so its messy etc), don't like having people over etc.

I invite people and their kids over all the time because I have the space and love having people over, only two parents have reciprocated but I don't mind. Just keep inviting people over and take small steps and them in your house will allow you see how he plays with others to see if he can socially play the games with them correctly

thing is, other kids are invited back but he is not.

He has absolutely no problem interacting with other kids, if anything, he is in his element and loves it, he has a very funny personality but we will keep trying over the summer to invite other kids where possible

anon999

MissShihTzu wrote: »

I would also make an appointment to see the school head. Is there a chance your son could move to a different class? Have a chat with the headmaster and see.

Good luck with the treatment!

when we approached the school initially, I requested a meeting with the teacher involved and the principal. As it happened I had to collect him from the schoolone day around then and met the vice principal. We went in a room and I explained the situation to her and mentioned that he was terrified of being put outside the staff room door, etc., her response was that that happens loads of kids on any given day and it has no effect on them seemingly! She also said that I should just deal with the teacher only even though putting kids outside the staff room door is a school policy.

There is only 1 4th class and at least he is finishing next week and I'm 90% sure he will have a different teacher next year

bp

anon999 wrote: »

thing is, other kids are invited back but he is not.

He has absolutely no problem interacting with other kids, if anything, he is in his element and loves it, he has a very funny personality but we will keep trying over the summer to invite other kids where possible

That is hard the poor kid. Hopefully the summer improves things

Carrie50

I went through similar with my daughter,she was so stressed by her teacher and I didnt know when she wouldn't go to school I took her to the GP who found her to be suffering from severe stress,referring her to a&e they found the same,after bloods were clear,speaking to the teacher and head got us nowhere.we were lucky we could change schools,my son had a teacher last year and was the same with homework,checking it,afraid it wuldnt be right,the teacher left on maternity and my son is so much happier..I feel for ur son,a child shuld not have to deal with such stress..keep talking to him, telling him u are there for him,tell him its the teacher thats the problem NOT HIM..once a child knows their parent supports them they find things easier to cope with..what the school wont do, u can do at home,build him up..keep him strong to see out this term..lots of tender loving care for ur precious boy...I wish u and him well..

anon999

Thanks, lots of loving advice there. He is well aware that we love him and we tell him that all the time.

I think it's probably best I don't meet the teacher now given that I would find it hard to hold back and he does have another 2 years in that school. We had thought of pulling him out but that could be even more difficult for him given the amount of friends he has.

At least it will be a nicer teacher next year

nikkibikki

Wait and see who he has next year and have a chat with that teacher this week. If you are not satisfied, you can think about another school then.

He's at an age where there are lots of changes happening, my own son is the same age. His behaviour has def changed in the last year.

He seems to be worried about getting into trouble, be it in school or at home. Mainly seems to be about school. Maybe start by re-assuring him that you don't expect him to be 100% at everything, behaviour included. His best is good enough and your love for him is unconditional. That you love him even when you are cross with him.

Hope you are able to get loads of help from CAHMS.

anon999

hi,

Thanks to everyone who replied

Just wanted to get an opinion on something I'm thinking about. We are now engaging with CAMHS and a psychiatric nurse there is dealing with our son for now. He mentioned to me that as well as conducting sessions with our son and us together, he would be doing one-to-one sessions with our son only. I feel a bit uneasy about this, not disparaging the man's character or anything, he seems like a very nice man, but I would have thought given its the HSE, they would have a policy of never being alone with children? I'd be fine if it was a room with a window to see in but it isn't.

I was going to bring it up with him when I next see him, even for his own sake, is this a bit odd or am I being OTT?

Carrie50

Ur not being ott at all..ur son's welfare comes first..as u know..and u cant be too careful when its ur child..put ur mind at ease and talk to this man and see if a room with a window culd be an option..if ur son culd sit with his back to it it wuld not be distracting...u sound like a great mum BTW...

B0jangles

Hey OP, it might be good to tell your son about how you have had anxiety issues yourself - not in massive detail obviously, since he's only 10, but in a way that lets him know that he's not the only one who has these feelings and that you do understand what it's like - problem shared and all that!

anon999

Ur not being ott at all..ur son's welfare comes first..as u know..and u cant be too careful when its ur child..put ur mind at ease and talk to this man and see if a room with a window culd be an option..if ur son culd sit with his back to it it wuld not be distracting...u sound like a great mum BTW...

thanks, i'm his dad - not sure if I should feel complimented or not :-)

anon999

Hey OP, it might be good to tell your son about how you have had anxiety issues yourself - not in massive detail obviously, since he's only 10, but in a way that lets him know that he's not the only one who has these feelings and that you do understand what it's like - problem shared and all that!

thanks, I had thought about it but he really thinks the world about me and tries to emulate me in lots of ways. I would hate to burst his bubble, at least when he is only 10. I was thinking maybe when he is a bit older I could tell him this.

Carrie50

Sorry..I should have said parent and not assumed u were his mum..he is very lucky to have such a caring dad....please accept the compliment....

rainbowtrout

While not really being able to help with your son's issues, why does his school have a policy of putting children outside the staffroom?

I'm teaching in a secondary school and we do not throw kids out of class. They are supposed to be under our supervision and we are responsible if anything happens to them if we turf them out. I'm very surprised to hear this is a form of punishment in your son's primary school.

JustAThought

anon999 wrote: »

hi,

Thanks to everyone who replied

Just wanted to get an opinion on something I'm thinking about. We are now engaging with CAMHS and a psychiatric nurse there is dealing with our son for now. He mentioned to me that as well as conducting sessions with our son and us together, he would be doing one-to-one sessions with our son only. I feel a bit uneasy about this, not disparaging the man's character or anything, he seems like a very nice man, but I would have thought given its the HSE, they would have a policy of never being alone with children? I'd be fine if it was a room with a window to see in but it isn't.

I was going to bring it up with him when I next see him, even for his own sake, is this a bit odd or am I being OTT?

Without disrespecting your fears he clearly wants to address the issues for.your son.without you there. No doubt they have a rigorous child protection policy in place - psychiatric specialists are as rare as hens teeth - you have to trust at some point in your life that your child will be safe otherwide you can throw your hat at it. Do you have other parents there when the children are over? And your livliehiod and career don't depend on it! You have to trust. Will you carry your child in a Moses basket close to your chest all his life ? You sound like a lovely,outgoing, caring family that is doing its best and working its way through your sons challenges - what a pity a little child should gave such stress and worries at such a tender age. Well done you for handling it so well.

anon999

rainbowtrout wrote: »

While not really being able to help with your son's issues, why does his school have a policy of putting children outside the staffroom?

I'm teaching in a secondary school and we do not throw kids out of class. They are supposed to be under our supervision and we are responsible if anything happens to them if we turf them out. I'm very surprised to hear this is a form of punishment in your son's primary school.

We have brought this up with the principal and with the teacher and even explained that it could lead to bullying, for example, if other kids see another child outside the staffroom door, it could lead to them being teased, etc.

I mentioned it to the vice-principal also and the response I got was that there are a number of kids put outside every day, so just deal with it basically (not a direct quote obviously but that is what I took from it)

rainbowtrout

anon999 wrote: »

We have brought this up with the principal and with the teacher and even explained that it could lead to bullying, for example, if other kids see another child outside the staffroom door, it could lead to them being teased, etc.

I mentioned it to the vice-principal also and the response I got was that there are a number of kids put outside every day, so just deal with it basically (not a direct quote obviously but that is what I took from it)

That’s an awful attitude from the VP. Putting a number of children out of class doesn’t make it right. Something to be raised with the board of management?

JustAThought

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That’s an awful attitude from the VP. Putting a number of children out of class doesn’t make it right. Something to be raised with the board of management?

I still remember the disruptive kids from X years ago -taking a kid out of the classroom stops the disruption and messing and is a great tool. Calms everything down very qyickly while allowing the class to continue. Then the kid can be brought back in and normal services resume for all. With 30 kids in a class a few can really hold back the progress of the many as it messes with tje giddiness and messing and things can get giggly and disruptive quickly as the herd mentality kicks in. . Personally I'm a fan. Teachers have so few tools to use nowadays.

ratracer

Hi OP,

I would be going through something similar to you at the moment with our 12 y.o. albeit more to do with anxiety than OCD.

Can I ask who referred you to CAHMS? The only reason I ask this is that we have gone through the HSE Primary Psycology Service, which we were advised to by our GP and by the SNA in the school. Both recommended the service as it was more relevant to the age of the child. I wouldn’t have known there was a difference at the beginning but they are completely separate entities.

The only reason I am mentioning it is because I know how difficult it is trying to get either information or help, and also the feeling of being completely helpless when your child needs help, and everyone tries to tell you ‘ sure they’ll grow out of it’ ( not meaning the posters in here mind)

Good luck with it, it’s a difficult and emotional issue to deal with.

Also, my child has seen therapists and psychologists ( both private and HSE) and the norm is that once the child is comfortable with them they would be left alone with them in session.

anon999

ratracer wrote: »

Hi OP,

I would be going through something similar to you at the moment with our 12 y.o. albeit more to do with anxiety than OCD.

Can I ask who referred you to CAHMS? The only reason I ask this is that we have gone through the HSE Primary Psycology Service, which we were advised to by our GP and by the SNA in the school. Both recommended the service as it was more relevant to the age of the child. I wouldn’t have known there was a difference at the beginning but they are completely separate entities.

The only reason I am mentioning it is because I know how difficult it is trying to get either information or help, and also the feeling of being completely helpless when your child needs help, and everyone tries to tell you ‘ sure they’ll grow out of it’ ( not meaning the posters in here mind)

Good luck with it, it’s a difficult and emotional issue to deal with.

Also, my child has seen therapists and psychologists ( both private and HSE) and the norm is that once the child is comfortable with them they would be left alone with them in session.

Thanks ratracer,

We were advised to go this route by our GP. Once she sent in the details we were seen after about 5 weeks. I know it can take a lot longer for some people so I suppose it just depends on the severity of the illness

rainbowtrout

JustAThought wrote: »

I still remember the disruptive kids from X years ago -taking a kid out of the classroom stops the disruption and messing and is a great tool. Calms everything down very qyickly while allowing the class to continue. Then the kid can be brought back in and normal services resume for all. With 30 kids in a class a few can really hold back the progress of the many as it messes with tje giddiness and messing and things can get giggly and disruptive quickly as the herd mentality kicks in. . Personally I'm a fan. Teachers have so few tools to use nowadays.

It's not how it works now, and a school could find itself on the end of a court case if anything happens the child when they've been turfed out of the room. It's not even up for discussion in my school and we're secondary.

Noo

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It's not how it works now, and a school could find itself on the end of a court case if anything happens the child when they've been turfed out of the room. It's not even up for discussion in my school and we're secondary.

Wow, i remember being turfed out of the classroom at playschool. Early 90s though.

Malayalam

Hi OP
There is an inner logic to the rituals of OCD. The response is a deeply embedded one, in the human psyche, a sort of sympathetic magic. By doing the rituals your son feels he is making his world safer, or perhaps feeling that he is keeping the people he loves safer. This could even be more prominent in his mind. So, the root to get to is why he feels unsafe. (Could be bullying. Could be over-sensitised nervous system (amygdala at the root of a lot of that). Could be learned response from when he was infant and saw your responses. Could be anything, some story he heard, some scene in a movie that shook him.)
One thing is you think he does not know you have had social anxiety, but he does. Maybe he cannot consciously express it or even consciously remember it, but he knows it. It was part of his life too. It would be good to start the conversation with him now about your anxiety. To tell him the truth. And to keep telling him the truth and letting him tell you the truth as he goes along and gradually learns tools to feel safer in the world. It takes time.
The OCD thought groove only gets over-ridden when some stronger grooves lay claim to the habitual mind. Maybe take him to surfing classes over summer? Being in the ocean is a great for wiping the habitual thoughts.

On a side note I am not a believer in endlessly trusting any school to do what is best for your child. Give it a good go, but trust your instincts. If push come to absolute shove do whatever it takes to keep your child well- even if it means moving, home-schooling, cycling around the world with your family for a few years!! Best of luck.

seamus

Not sure if I can offer advice as much as a form of sympathy. My daughter's just started school this year, so a good deal younger than your son, but the behaviour you describe is familiar.

Every now and again this obsessive behaviour will assert itself - making sure things are put away in the correct place, losing the plot if routines aren't followed exactly, making sure her duvet is straight, putting her teddies in an exact order. And so on.

It took us a while to discover that this wasn't some form of craziness, but pure anxiety. Whenever she's worried about something, she feels the need to control her environment at home. The unsureity of whatever is making her anxious, forces her to try and create a home environment that is 100% certain and in control.

And it's usually school; it often happens just before bed and it's because she's anxious about school the next day. At the start of the year, seeing other kids get in trouble made her worried that the same thing would happen to her, even though she's quiet as a mouse.

So in your shoes, to me everything links up; your son's behaviour changed around the time he started school, his teacher is a bit of a bitch, and there's a threat of punishment constantly hanging over their heads.

There's not much you can do at this stage, but you will have a bit of hell at the end of August as he realises school is coming back. I think all you can do is try keep communication lines open, find out what he's worried about and try to allay his fears. And if he does get the same teacher again (or a similarly harsh one), see if he can be moved.

In terms of the friends thing, the unfortunate reality is that if you're not engaged/friendly, then that will impact his relationships. I doubt your "bridges have been burned" unless you explicitly insulted someone to their face, but if you have a reputation for being standoffish or aloof, then you have to make an effort to engage in casual conversations and be open - other parents won't come and talk to you, you have to go to them.