Failed my driving test due "Checking my blindspots too often". Should I dispute?

IrvineXIII

So today I attempted my driving test for the second time in Clonmel, and for the most part was fine. Lost a few marks for turning into corners the wrong way and such, I understand that. But I was given 7 grade 2 marks alone for checking my blindspots while driving.

I was told that you should only check your blindspots when pulling off from a parked position. This doesn't sit well with me because one of the reasons I failed the first time was because I didn't check them enough while making many maneuvers, now I'm being failed for checking them too often.

Basically I would check my blindspots before moving out around a parked car, or changing lanes and such. But according to the instructor, this was dangerous as I wouldn't be looking at the road ahead of me long enough.

So basically my question is; should make an appeal of some sort, or is the instructor correct, and I should just wait another 6 months to try again?

Alanstrainor

IrvineXIII wrote: »

So today I attempted my driving test for the second time in Clonmel, and for the most part was fine. Lost a few marks for turning into corners the wrong way and such, I understand that. But I was given 7 grade 2 marks alone for checking my blindspots while driving.

I was told that you should only check your blindspots when pulling off from a parked position. This doesn't sit well with me because one of the reasons I failed the first time was because I didn't check them enough while making many maneuvers, now I'm being failed for checking them too often.

Basically I would check my blindspots before moving out around a parked car, or changing lanes and such. But according to the instructor, this was dangerous as I wouldn't be looking at the road ahead of me long enough.

So basically my question is; should make an appeal of some sort, or is the instructor correct, and I should just wait another 6 months to try again?

Don't bother with the appeal. It sounds like you are making mistakes here. Checking blind spots when moving around parked cars and the likes is not needed and the time needed to turn your head to do so is too long leaving you unaware of what is happening in front. Which is the most important thing.

Even when changing lanes, it really depends. If you are on a dual carriageway and are overtaking another car then yes. However if you are just moving into a right turn lane at a junction then this should not be required.

It's hard to say why you failed the first time. Perhaps you missed your blindspot check on the reverse maneuver or turnabout. Including extra unnecessary blind spot checks in normal driving is not good practice.

I think you should just go back to your instructor, perhaps do a pre-test or simply drive around a bit and let them observe where you are making your errors.

IrvineXIII

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Don't bother with the appeal. It sounds like you are making mistakes here. Checking blind spots when moving around parked cars and the likes is not needed and the time needed to turn your head to do so is too long leaving you unaware of what is happening in front. Which is the most important thing.

Even when changing lanes, it really depends. If you are on a dual carriageway and are overtaking another car then yes. However if you are just moving into a right turn lane at a junction then this should not be required.

It's hard to say why you failed the first time. Perhaps you missed your blindspot check on the reverse maneuver or turnabout. Including extra unnecessary blind spot checks in normal driving is not good practice.

I think you should just go back to your instructor, perhaps do a pre-test or simply drive around a bit and let them observe where you are making your errors.

That sounds fair, it's just confusing having one instructor tell me I'm checking them enough, and the other telling me I'm checking too much. Thank you for your reply.

Del2005

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Even when changing lanes, it really depends. If you are on a dual carriageway and are overtaking another car then yes. However if you are just moving into a right turn lane at a junction then this should not be required.

It's hard to say why you failed the first time. Perhaps you missed your blindspot check on the reverse maneuver or turnabout. Including extra unnecessary blind spot checks in normal driving is not good practice.

I think you should just go back to your instructor, perhaps do a pre-test or simply drive around a bit and let them observe where you are making your errors.

You should be checking blind spots whenever you change a lane, if aren't crossing the line there's no need to check but for every other lane change you should. Too many crashes from people not doing blind spot checks and it's usually bikes that are hit.

stipey

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Checking blind spots when moving around parked cars and the likes is not needed

Unless a motorbike is coming up along the outside.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Even when changing lanes, it really depends. ... However if you are just moving into a right turn lane at a junction then this should not be required.

Unless a motorbike is coming up along the outside.


Not saying bikers do or don't have a right to do this - I suppose it depends on whether they are driving with due care and attention. The fact is, they do do it and whether they are in the right or wrong, I'd prefer to avoid the hassle of hitting one.

Alanstrainor

stipey wrote: »

Unless a motorbike is coming up along the outside.

Unless a motorbike is coming up along the outside.


Not saying bikers do or don't have a right to do this - I suppose it depends on whether they are driving with due care and attention. The fact is, they do do it and whether they are in the right or wrong, I'd prefer to avoid the hassle of hitting one.

Generally when moving around a parked car, it would tend to be on narrow residential streets. A mirror check would be required yes, but I blind spot check should not be. Any motorcyclist deeming that to be a safe place to overtake would need their head examined.

As for checking the blindspot changing lanes, like I said previously. It depends. If you are on a single carriageway approaching a junction with a dedicated right turn lane, then no a blindspot check is not required. A mirror check is sufficient. However if you are changing lanes on a dual carriageway/motorway. Then yes, it is required.

Bandana boy

IrvineXIII wrote: »

That sounds fair, it's just confusing having one instructor tell me I'm checking them enough, and the other telling me I'm checking too much. Thank you for your reply.

on your first test you didn't check enough and on your second you checked to much .
Should not be that confusing , while it's possible the tester is wrong it's far far more likely you are in the wrong I would take the feedback and look at your own driving.
Good luck in your retest

TheBoyConor

Don't appeal it. It's a waste of time. You can't change the result and will have to sit again regardless. Also, you'd run a high chance of antagonising the testers and they will remember this the next time you go for the test - then they'll be out to antagonise you and potentially another fail.

Just take it on the chin, practice more and re-sit the test.

Del2005

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Generally when moving around a parked car, it would tend to be on narrow residential streets. A mirror check would be required yes, but I blind spot check should not be. Any motorcyclist deeming that to be a safe place to overtake would need their head examined.

As for checking the blindspot changing lanes, like I said previously. It depends. If you are on a single carriageway approaching a junction with a dedicated right turn lane, then no a blindspot check is not required. A mirror check is sufficient. However if you are changing lanes on a dual carriageway/motorway. Then yes, it is required.

A place where a car can overtake safely and where a bike can overtake safely are completely different. A car passing another parked car wouldn't be an issue for a bike to get past so they could be there and have no need for their head to be examined.

If you are going to change into a right turn lane there could still be a bike, or car flying up!, in the lane to turn right.

A person assuming that the lane they are entering will be empty by not doing a blind spot check is the person who needs their head examined

Alanstrainor

Del2005 wrote: »

A place where a car can overtake safely and where a bike can overtake safely are completely different. A car passing another parked car wouldn't be an issue for a bike to get past so they could be there and have no need for their head to be examined.

If you are going to change into a right turn lane there could still be a bike, or car flying up!, in the lane to turn right.

A person assuming that the lane they are entering will be empty by not doing a blind spot check is the person who needs their head examined

Trying to discuss this without examples is difficult. Here's a right turn example:

https://goo.gl/maps/cUf2pCL2yqB2

A single lane, approaching a junction with a dedicated right turn lane. On approach the procedure should be:

1. Check right mirror.
2. Signal right before right lane start.
3. Check mirror before turning into right turn lane.
4. Move into right turn lane and proceed to traffic lights.

There is no need for a shoulder check here. The 2 mirror checks should be more than sufficient. A motorcyclist or other motorist would be seen in the mirror checks, and even so both would be illegally overtaking in this case.

Here's another example which I made. Passing a parked car in a housing estate:

https://goo.gl/maps/K7oPPZKSCqo

In this scenario, provided there was no on coming traffic I would simply check my right mirror and move out around the parked car. I would not indicate in this instance either, as to do so in a estate like this would mean having to almost constantly be indicating which is confusing to other motorists, but that's another discussion.

Hopefully that adds some clarity to this discussion.

Del2005

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Trying to discuss this without examples is difficult. Here's a right turn example:

https://goo.gl/maps/cUf2pCL2yqB2

A single lane, approaching a junction with a dedicated right turn lane. On approach the procedure should be:

1. Check right mirror.
2. Signal right before right lane start.
3. Check mirror before turning into right turn lane.
4. Move into right turn lane and proceed to traffic lights.

There is no need for a shoulder check here. The 2 mirror checks should be more than sufficient. A motorcyclist or other motorist would be seen in the mirror checks, and even so both would be illegally overtaking in this case.

Here's another example which I made. Passing a parked car in a housing estate:

https://goo.gl/maps/K7oPPZKSCqo

In this scenario, provided there was no on coming traffic I would simply check my right mirror and move out around the parked car. I would not indicate in this instance either, as to do so in a estate like this would mean having to almost constantly be indicating which is confusing to other motorists, but that's another discussion.

Hopefully that adds some clarity to this discussion.

The 1st one just because the maneuver they do is not legal doesn't mean that you can crash into them, they are in the lane you are trying to enter to turn right and you have to give way to people already in the lane so you will need to do shoulder checks.

2nd one yes no need for shoulder checks.

KERSPLAT!

I was sure that shoulder checks were only on the turn about, reversing around the corner and moving off from a parked position.

Alanstrainor

Del2005 wrote: »

The 1st one just because the maneuver they do is not legal doesn't mean that you can crash into them, they are in the lane you are trying to enter to turn right and you have to give way to people already in the lane so you will need to do shoulder checks.

2nd one yes no need for shoulder checks.

For a driving test my procedure is correct. I know you are a motorcyclist, so perhaps that changes your perception of these issues. But if learner drivers follow the advice you are giving they will get marks as the OP did here. Mirror checks as per my example are more than enough.

Alanstrainor

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I was sure that shoulder checks were only on the turn about, reversing around the corner and moving off from a parked position.

For the driving test this is correct. Some centres might include a dual carriageway which would require a blindspot check when merging.

Samuel T. Cogley

Alanstrainor wrote: »

For the driving test this is correct. Some centres might include a dual carriageway which would require a blindspot check when merging.

Is it required for over taking on the motorway/dual carriage way? I'd have a sore neck! Surely situational awareness is enough? Honest question as the wife does it and I've been telling her not too :pac:

dudara

For what it’s worth, I think a lot also depends on your car. Some cars have better mirrors/pillars than others meaning less blind spots. Some cars are worse.

Honestly, it’s hard to say how you performed without being there in the car with you. But get another opinion and good luck on the next go.

Alanstrainor

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Is it required for over taking on the motorway/dual carriage way? I'd have a sore neck! Surely situational awareness is enough? Honest question as the wife does it and I've been telling her not too :pac:

It is. But only a very brief check to your right, you don't have to swing your whole body around as you would during the reverse around the corner manoeuvre. It's a quick glance, nothing more.

Even outside a test I would make sure to check, even the most observant driver can miss something.

Samuel T. Cogley

Alanstrainor wrote: »

It is. But only a very brief check to your right, you don't have to swing your whole body around as you would during the reverse around the corner manoeuvre. It's a quick glance, nothing more.

Even outside a test I would make sure to check, even the most observant driver can miss something.

My wife will be fecking delighted! :pac:

Wishbone Ash

Del2005 wrote: »

...., they are in the lane you are trying to enter to turn right and you have to give way to people already in the lane.....

If another road user decides to enter a non-existant lane (i.e. the hatched markings in the Google Maps example above), they are not 'in the lane' you are trying to enter so they would have to do so knowing that there is a certain element of risk.

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Is it required for over taking on the motorway/dual carriage way? I'd have a sore neck! Surely situational awareness is enough? Honest question as the wife does it and I've been telling her not too :pac:

I'd never change lane on a motorway/DC without doing a shoulder check in daylight hours.

Achasanai

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd never change lane on a motorway/DC without doing a shoulder check in daylight hours.

Aye. I see enough near misses that are clearly people not checking their blind spots, just indicate (if that) and move. Some people seem to think it's a full on look over the shoulder for a few seconds, but just a glance will be enough.