Religious People Live Longer?

Nick Park

An article in today's Irish Independent caught my eye, claiming that religious people live up to 4 years longer on average that atheists or agnostics: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/who-lives-longer-religious-people-or-atheists-scientists-think-they-may-have-the-answer-37009114.html

I've seen a number of previous studies around this idea, and they seem to indicate the following:

1. People live longer in secular societies than in overwhelmingly religious societies. That's hardly surprising, and is good news for those of us who are Christian secularists!

2. In secular societies, religious people tend to live longer than the non-religious. Researchers have suggested this is because belonging to a community promotes mental health and well-being. Also, people who attend religious worship regularly are, on average, less likely to engage in certain habits that are detrimental to health (smoking, alcohol & drug abuse, sexual promiscuity).

3. The health benefits of religion tend to be seen across many varieties of religion. This would indicate that it has no bearing on whether religious beliefs are true or not, simply that religion in general can provide positive benefits. Or, to put it another way, the reasons for religious people living longer are sociological rather than theological.

4. I do remember seeing a study that suggested that the health benefits of being religious decrease when the religious are a very small minority in a culture, but increase where the religious are, while still a minority, more numerous.

kunst nugget

I thought they got to live forever in the afterlife? Only 4 more years is a bit of a letdown…

sbsquarepants

I would personally doubt there is any causal connection. I'd say it's down to something like religiously minded people tend to live healthier lifestyles.

Sex, drugs and rock and roll - all good clean fun to a hedonistic type such as myself, but not necessarily healthy.
Tends to be incompatible with early morning mass going though! Nice cup of tea and an early night however......

Nick Park

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I would personally doubt there is any causal connection. I'd say it's down to something like religiously minded people tend to live healthier lifestyles.

If those healthier lifestyles are a result of their religiosity then that would be a causal connection, wouldn't it?

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sbsquarepants

Nick Park wrote: »

If those healthier lifestyles are a result of their religiosity then that would be a causal connection, wouldn't it?

No, that's correlation not causation.

You could in theory stop being religious, but keep the healthy lifestyle and still get the benefit, alternatively you could ditch the lifestyle but keep the religion and not get the benefit.

smacl

Nick Park wrote: »

Also, people who attend religious worship regularly are, on average, less likely to engage in certain habits that are detrimental to health (smoking, alcohol & drug abuse, sexual promiscuity).

Why is it that the first person that popped into my mind when I read that was Father Jack Hackett?

Gwen Cooper

Are we sure that it's not just some new catholic propaganda?

smacl

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

Are we sure that it's not just some new catholic propaganda?

Nah, research based in American cities, so unlikely to be majority Catholic. Original abstract here, but the main paper is behind a paywall. I doubt Irish society has enough in common with the American cities studied in this research to suggest the results would be applicable here.

Mancomb Seepgood

I remember reading about "blue zones" a number of years back in the National Geographic: communities with a might higher than average group of people living beyond 100. Religion factored in various ways but it seems as if it would be difficult to say whether religious practice such as prayer or meditation has a positive effect on life expectancy,or whether or it is more about being part of a community and not being socially isolated.You don't need religion for this but in many societies,religious and spiritual groups are probably more accessible than secular groups, particularly for older people.

One place that stood out was the city of Loma Linda in California,a "blue zone" with a high population of Seventh-day Adventists,a surprising number of whom stay in great health into their 90s and beyond.That said,Adventists have a big emphasis on healthy living: a vegetarian diet, exercise, no tobacco or alcohol.They also keep to the Sabbath which must reduce stress somewhat and help with work-life balance.It would be interesting to compare life expectancy of Adventists to other evangelical Christians in California.

Mutant z

What a load of nonsense religion doesnt define longevity lifestyle and genetics does those who happen to be religious and living into their 90s and even 100s have done so in spite of it not because of it.

smacl

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

I remember reading about "blue zones" a number of years back in the National Geographic: communities with a might higher than average group of people living beyond 100. Religion factored in various ways but it seems as if it would be difficult to say whether religious practice such as prayer or meditation has a positive effect on life expectancy,or whether or it is more about being part of a community and not being socially isolated.You don't need religion for this but in many societies,religious and spiritual groups are probably more accessible than secular groups, particularly for older people.

One place that stood out was the city of Loma Linda in California,a "blue zone" with a high population of Seventh-day Adventists,a surprising number of whom stay in great health into their 90s and beyond.That said,Adventists have a big emphasis on healthy living: a vegetarian diet, exercise, no tobacco or alcohol.They also keep to the Sabbath which must reduce stress somewhat and help with work-life balance.It would be interesting to compare life expectancy of Adventists to other evangelical Christians in California.

While I could see the social connection that religion offers to be of benefit, similarly the ascetic single life is also anecdotally associated with longevity. Thinking more of Toaist and Buddhist monks than Christians but no doubt same rules apply. Like many of these studies correlation is easy to establish but causation is a different kettle of fish. Possibly less stress and a degree of happiness plays a part irrespective of creed.

Nick Park

Mutant z wrote: »

What a load of nonsense religion doesnt define longevity lifestyle and genetics does those who happen to be religious and living into their 90s and even 100s have done so in spite of it not because of it.

A great example of exercising blind faith while ignoring evidence.

Peregrinus

sbsquarepants wrote: »

No, that's correlation not causation.

You could in theory stop being religious, but keep the healthy lifestyle and still get the benefit, alternatively you could ditch the lifestyle but keep the religion and not get the benefit.

You could in theory, but if in fact your healthy lifestyle is the outcome of your religiosity, then that is indeed a causal connection, and not a mere correlation.

However I think the received wisdom is that the longevity bonus associated with religion is not attributable so much to "healthy lifestyle" in the sense of avoiding the ciggies and the gargle (is there evidence that religious people do in fact smoke and drink less?) but to the health benefits of social connection and community activity. It's not believing in God that makes you live longer; it's going to church, getting involved in parish activities, making connections, making friends. This is especially true in the older age, when religiosity tends to be most strongly expressed.

Obviously there are alternative non-religious activities which provide similar benefits. But being religious is pretty much defined by participation in these activities, whereas with non-religious people, some do participate in such activities and some do not.

Peregrinus

smacl wrote: »

While I could see the social connection that religion offers to be of benefit, similarly the ascetic single life is also anecdotally associated with longevity. Thinking more of Toaist and Buddhist monks than Christians but no doubt same rules apply. Like many of these studies correlation is easy to establish but causation is a different kettle of fish. Possibly less stress and a degree of happiness plays a part irrespective of creed.

Nuns. Nuns live for ever, have you noticed that?

But what nuns (and Taoist and Buddhist and Christian monks) live is not the "ascetic single life". Monks and nuns live in community; they are committed to the common life, not the single life. So they, too, are getting the benefits of social interaction and a network of relationships, as well as the psychological benefits of shared purpose, common endeavour, etc.

Hermits, now. I'm not sure if there's much data on the life expectancy of hermits.

9de5q7tsr8u2im

....... wrote: »

I know some people who are comforted in the belief that they will spend eternity with their loved ones in heaven because they lived a good life. A lovely idea but total nonsense.

If that’s what gives them a peace of mind then let them be?

sbsquarepants

Peregrinus wrote: »

You could in theory, but if in fact your healthy lifestyle is the outcome of your religiosity, then that is indeed a causal connection, and not a mere correlation.

I wouldn't view it as an outcome of it as such, more to accommodate it. It's like working early in the morning, so you don't go out on the rip the night before. Any benefit to your liver is entirely down to not going on the rip, the early shift didn't do anything in and of itself.

Peregrinus wrote: »

However I think the received wisdom is that the longevity bonus associated with religion is not attributable so much to "healthy lifestyle" in the sense of avoiding the ciggies and the gargle (is there evidence that religious people do in fact smoke and drink less?).

I don't know to be honest, Anecdotally I would say yes, but actual hard evidence, I don't know.
But I think you've made a very pertinent point, at least as important, if not even more so in later years is social inclusion. Thankfully, I'm still a while away from that stage, but at a time when your friends and peers are dropping around you, it must be a benefit to feel you still "belong" somewhere.
Religion for all it's faults does provide that for a lot of people.

Peregrinus

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I wouldn't view it as an outcome of it as such, more to accommodate it. It's like working early in the morning, so you don't go out on the rip the night before. Any benefit to your liver is entirely down to not going on the rip, the early shift didn't do anything in and of itself.

No, but there's still a causal link. Having the job is the cause of your choice to get your 7 hours, which in turn is the cause of the health benefit.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't know to be honest, Anecdotally I would say yes, but actual hard evidence, I don't know.
But I think you've made a very pertinent point, at least as important, if not even more so in later years is social inclusion. Thankfully, I'm still a while away from that stage, but at a time when your friends and peers are dropping around you, it must be a benefit to feel you still "belong" somewhere.
Religion for all it's faults does provide that for a lot of people.

Yes. Which raises a challenge for an increasingly secularised society; the need to develop alternative structures/customs/mechanisms which will support social inclusion and social activity by older people.

Godlessness; there has to be more to it than lying in on Sunday mornings.

sbsquarepants

Peregrinus wrote: »

Godlessness; there has to be more to it than lying in on Sunday mornings.

Oh yea, but it's a secret, we aren't allowed to tell believers:D


Jaysus - I'd love a lie on, haven't had one in years. Even when I do get the (very rare) opportunity, I just wake up around 6 anyway!

smacl

Peregrinus wrote: »

Nuns. Nuns live for ever, have you noticed that?

Oh yes. Had an extended stay in a nun run hospital as a lad and I reckon some of them were older than the walls.

But what nuns (and Taoist and Buddhist and Christian monks) live is not the "ascetic single life". Monks and nuns live in community; they are committed to the common life, not the single life. So they, too, are getting the benefits of social interaction and a network of relationships, as well as the psychological benefits of shared purpose, common endeavour, etc.

Agreed, and a contemplative life free of many modern stresses.

Hermits, now. I'm not sure if there's much data on the life expectancy of hermits.

No sure either, but stories of long lived hermits do seem to appear in many religions and mythologies. The oldest person alive today credits her longevity to eating eel, drinking wine and never smoking. I drink plenty of wine and don't smoke, so off to the fishmongers for me this evening. It is Friday after all

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kunst nugget

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Probably not the intention but that comes across as 'I wish I could be that mindlessly happy but, sigh, I'm not as stupid as them'

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Delirium

....... wrote: »

Oh I absolutely let them be, you seem to have missed the point I am making.

I would love to have that comfort, that belief, but because I know that religion is made up stories I cant.

MOD NOTE

please remember you are posting in the Christianity forum and 'made up stories ' is not an appropriate way to refer to Christian beliefs.

Thanks for your attention.

Peregrinus

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. . . or some connection there that you don't and can't seem to make?

Ths first step in skepticism, after all, is acknowledging that your own position may be wrong. "I know these stories are made up" looks strikingly like a statement of simple but devout faith to me.

Cabaal

Peregrinus wrote: »

.?

Ths first step in skepticism, after all, is acknowledging that your own position may be wrong. "I know these stories are made up" looks strikingly like a statement of simple but devout faith to me.

Are you suggesting atheism is a religion?

"faith/feɪθ/
noun

complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof."

smacl

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ths first step in skepticism, after all, is acknowledging that your own position may be wrong. "I know these stories are made up" looks strikingly like a statement of simple but devout faith to me.

Depends how you word it. If you were to say "I have no reason to believe these stories to be true as I have not been provided with any strong supporting evidence" that would be simple scepticism rather than an article of faith. Faith is necessary to believe the stories true in the absence of such evidence.

Peregrinus

Cabaal wrote: »

Are you suggesting atheism is a religion?

No. Just that atheism isn't incompatible with faith.

smacl wrote: »

Depends how you word it. If you were to say "I have no reason to believe these stories to be true as I have not been provided with any strong supporting evidence" that would be simple scepticism rather than an article of faith.

Sure. But that's very different from what ...... said, which is "I know that religion is made up stories".

Happy4all

It must be very disappointing for them having to wait longer to get to heaven. God is cruel.

smacl

Peregrinus wrote: »

Sure. But that's very different from what ...... said, which is "I know that religion is made up stories".

True of course, although it wouldn't be unusual in the context of religion to confuse knowledge with belief, or belief with truth.

Peregrinus

smacl wrote: »

True of course, although it wouldn't be unusual in the context of religion to confuse knowledge with belief, or belief with truth.

Nor is it unusual in the context of irreligion, as neatly illustrated by .....'s post. Which is kind of the point I was making.