BusConnect Blanchardstown

AlanG

It seems amazing that the proposed Busconnect route for Blanchardstown manages to avoid going close to most people living in Dublin 15. It seems to start in the center and go straight onto the N3 - unless there is some major engineering works the next stop is likely to be at the halting site across from bridgets GAA. I would imagine it would not be too difficult to run it up towards the Ongar link road at least.

jonnybravo

AlanG wrote: »

It seems amazing that the proposed Busconnect route for Blanchardstown manages to avoid going close to most people living in Dublin 15. It seems to start in the center and go straight onto the N3 - unless there is some major engineering works the next stop is likely to be at the halting site across from bridgets GAA. I would imagine it would not be too difficult to run it up towards the Ongar link road at least.

I thought the point of the Busconnect routes is that it just goes direct? I think they'll be other buses that just feed into this network so if you live in Ongar you'd get a bus from Ongar into Blanchardstown / N3 and change bus. That was my reading of it anyways.

blanch152

Will the 37, the 38 routes and the 39 feed into this bus corridor as well?

One reading of the maps is that the blue lined areas are the ones earmarked for continuous bus lanes, but that any route could join it anywhere.

Victor

AlanG wrote: »

It seems amazing that the proposed Busconnect route for Blanchardstown manages to avoid going close to most people living in Dublin 15. It seems to start in the center and go straight onto the N3 - unless there is some major engineering works the next stop is likely to be at the halting site across from bridgets GAA. I would imagine it would not be too difficult to run it up towards the Ongar link road at least.

What is that map from. It doesn't seem to be from the current documents. Full documents here: https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign/

Essentially, all services will go via the Blanchardstown Centre.

B1 and B2 (which join to become Spine B at the Blanchardstown Centre) will be the main routes into the city centre, but there will also be routes 35 & 37. There will be an all day route W to Tallaght and N4 to Howth Junction. Routes 261, 262, 263, 264, 265 will be local routes.

Free transfers between bus / tram / DART for 90 minutes.

Red - to city centre
Green - local routes
Blue - orbital

blanch152

Victor wrote: »

What is that map from. It doesn't seem to be from the current documents. Full documents here: https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign/

Essentially, all services will go via the Blanchardstown Centre.

B1 and B2 (which join to become Spine B at the Blanchardstown Centre) will be the main routes into the city centre, but there will also be routes 35 & 37. There will be an all day route W to Tallaght and N4 to Howth Junction. Routes 261, 262, 263, 264, 265 will be local routes.

Free transfers between bus / tram / DART for 90 minutes.

Red - to city centre
Green - local routes
Blue - orbital

For anyone living in Roselawn, along the Clonsilla Road or in Blanchardstown that was served by the 39 after leaving the Centre, they are facing a much longer journey to the city centre.

They will have to get the 261 up to the Centre, before switching to the B route.

Surely it isn't beyond the planners to have the 261 interchange with the B route either at the Travelodge or at Navan Road Parkway Station.

Victor

blanch152 wrote: »

For anyone living in Roselawn, along the Clonsilla Road or in Blanchardstown that was served by the 39 after leaving the Centre, they are facing a much longer journey to the city centre.

They will have to get the 261 up to the Centre, before switching to the B route.

Surely it isn't beyond the planners to have the 261 interchange with the B route either at the Travelodge or at Navan Road Parkway Station.

Hopefully, people can interchange between Blanchardstown village and the M50. 261 appears to operate in both directions.

RichardoKhan

Bus Dis'connects hmmm So if I have this right. At present if I wanted to go from Littlepace area to Dunboyne or Clonee (Aldi and Lidl) I catch one bus the 270. However the proposed changes noie has me. Catching a bus to the Centre in order to come all the way back on a second bus. Upshot it be quicker to walk but then again lugging 3 full bags back might may me think.....is bus Dis'connects sponsored by local taxis and private bud companies?

TheValeyard

Unless there are properly developed and maintained bus corridors, this will be a disaster. We all know what traffic can be like up there on a wet day, never mind Christmas.

Victor

RichardoKhan wrote: »

Bus Dis'connects hmmm So if I have this right. At present if I wanted to go from Littlepace area to Dunboyne or Clonee (Aldi and Lidl) I catch one bus the 270. However the proposed changes noie has me. Catching a bus to the Centre in order to come all the way back on a second bus. Upshot it be quicker to walk but then again lugging 3 full bags back might may me think.....is bus Dis'connects sponsored by local taxis and private bud companies?

The solution is a bus gate (with rising bollards) from Huntstown to Littlepace: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4029837,-6.4127968,3a,75y,356.46h,83.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s09vubyUljrzpxCGyczaeTw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 20 metre walk or 6.5 km drive.

It would allow Littlepace and Dunboyne buses take a much quicker direct route.

OldMrBrennan83

Having to go to the center to change all the time is going to be a disaster anyway.

fly_agaric

blanch152 wrote: »

For anyone living in Roselawn, along the Clonsilla Road or in Blanchardstown that was served by the 39 after leaving the Centre, they are facing a much longer journey to the city centre.

They will have to get the 261 up to the Centre, before switching to the B route.

Surely it isn't beyond the planners to have the 261 interchange with the B route either at the Travelodge or at Navan Road Parkway Station.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but is that not what is happening according to map (route 261 [both directions] meeting up with the B spine at Navan road parkway)?

blanch152

fly_agaric wrote: »

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but is that not what is happening according to map (route 261 [both directions] meeting up with the B spine at Navan road parkway)?

Note Route 261 comes out of Blanchardstown village, turns left at the gym and goes into the hospital.

No interchange with the main route into town except at the Centre. So, if you are living in Springlawn, you must get the bus up the Clonsilla Road to the Centre and then change to the bus to town.

Victor

blanch152 wrote: »

Note Route 261 comes out of Blanchardstown village, turns left at the gym and goes into the hospital.

No interchange with the main route into town except at the Centre. So, if you are living in Springlawn, you must get the bus up the Clonsilla Road to the Centre and then change to the bus to town.

They could easily put some stops here: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3847332,-6.3669068,3a,75y,112.27h,74.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sflkR3t2VOoDWwme2fJtDaA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 or here: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3857808,-6.3686271,3a,75y,99.53h,85.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCQQwZdPL7ha_LDp3v3vXyA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Spanish Eyes

Blanchardstown is near Clonsilla, Coolmine, Navan Road Parkway, and Castleknock Train stations correct?

There are so many areas in Dublin that rely SOLELY on DB and have no choice of any alternatives at all.

The idea behind all this is to make long journeys quicker and more direct, not to service every nook and cranny directly into the city.

Caranica

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Blanchardstown is near Clonsilla, Coolmine, Navan Road Parkway, and Castleknock Train stations correct?

There are so many areas in Dublin that rely SOLELY on DB and have no choice of any alternatives at all.

The idea behind all this is to make long journeys quicker and more direct, not to service every nook and cranny directly into the city.

Blanchardstown is a big area. I'm currently 30 minutes walk from any of those stations, 5 minutes from a direct bus route into the city centre and this plan wants to take that away

Stephen15

Patww79 wrote: »

Having to go to the center to change all the time is going to be a disaster anyway.

If there are proper bus priority measures and a decent interchange with good shelters and RTPI screens how so?

blanch152

Victor wrote: »

They could easily put some stops here: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3847332,-6.3669068,3a,75y,112.27h,74.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sflkR3t2VOoDWwme2fJtDaA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 or here: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3857808,-6.3686271,3a,75y,99.53h,85.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCQQwZdPL7ha_LDp3v3vXyA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That would delay their express bus into town, can't see it happening.

blanch152

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Blanchardstown is near Clonsilla, Coolmine, Navan Road Parkway, and Castleknock Train stations correct?

There are so many areas in Dublin that rely SOLELY on DB and have no choice of any alternatives at all.

The idea behind all this is to make long journeys quicker and more direct, not to service every nook and cranny directly into the city.

The plan for Roselawn/Clonsilla Road/Springlawn/Blanchardstown village will make long journeys slower and less direct, a few small tweaks would sort it.

Spanish Eyes

blanch152 wrote: »

The plan for Roselawn/Clonsilla Road/Springlawn/Blanchardstown village will make long journeys slower and less direct, a few small tweaks would sort it.

I understand that people are getting a bit concerned about this. But really, we have to give it a try first and complain bitterly afterwards if necessary, otherwise no infrastructural projects will ever happen in the city.

I am someone who is severely affected by Bus Connects. But I accept that things change and move on, and hopefully having given it a try it might just work for me and many others, not just the few who want a bus outside their door every five minutes!

I'm prepared to give it a try first. I am going to lose a service through my area apart from a half hourly (feeder) one as proposed. Will be tough. But if it works, it works, if it is a disaster something will be done to rectify it.

OldMrBrennan83

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I understand that people are getting a bit concerned about this. But really, we have to give it a try first and complain bitterly afterwards if necessary, otherwise no infrastructural projects will ever happen in the city.

I am someone who is severely affected by Bus Connects. But I accept that things change and move on, and hopefully having given it a try it might just work for me and many others, not just the few who want a bus outside their door every five minutes!

I'm prepared to give it a try first. I am going to lose a service through my area apart from a half hourly (feeder) one as proposed. Will be tough. But if it works, it works, if it is a disaster something will be done to rectify it.

If it gets in then it's in and won't change. The time is now to optimise the proposal.

blanch152

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I understand that people are getting a bit concerned about this. But really, we have to give it a try first and complain bitterly afterwards if necessary, otherwise no infrastructural projects will ever happen in the city.

I am someone who is severely affected by Bus Connects. But I accept that things change and move on, and hopefully having given it a try it might just work for me and many others, not just the few who want a bus outside their door every five minutes!

I'm prepared to give it a try first. I am going to lose a service through my area apart from a half hourly (feeder) one as proposed. Will be tough. But if it works, it works, if it is a disaster something will be done to rectify it.

You see, it isn't a take-it or leave-it proposal, otherwise why bother with a public consultation?

If a plan as big as this remains unchanged following the public consultation, then there is something wrong. I am not rejecting the switching buses proposal or the main thrust of the Bus Connects proposal, just proposing a small amendment to one route. If that isn't acceptable, then what is?

Victor

blanch152 wrote: »

That would delay their express bus into town, can't see it happening.

They aren't express buses. It will be normal buses stopping at a normal bus stop.

Toto Wolfcastle

Just trying to get my head around this ahead of the consultation deadline. Do the B1 and B2 routes that go to the centre terminate there or so they continue into town? I’m presuming you need to get off the B1/B2 and change to the B but I’m not sure.

OldMrBrennan83

Toto Wolfcastle wrote: »

Just trying to get my head around this ahead of the consultation deadline. Do the B1 and B2 routes that go to the centre terminate there or so they continue into town? I’m presuming you need to get off the B1/B2 and change to the B but I’m not sure.

The maps I've seen have them stopping at the center and the B going to the city.

Toto Wolfcastle

Patww79 wrote: »

The maps I've seen have them stopping at the center and the B going to the city.

Thanks for that. I thought that was the case but I wanted to be sure. If they're as frequent as they say they'll be then it might be okay, but the buses have been completely jammed lately so it might be a bit of a nightmare, particularly in the evening.

PhoenixParker

I think the B1 and B2 serve the spine and into the city centre, hence the B in the name.

The routes that stop at the centre and only serve local areas are the 3 digit routes.

thomasj

Toto Wolfcastle wrote:

Just trying to get my head around this ahead of the consultation deadline. Do the B1 and B2 routes that go to the centre terminate there or so they continue into town? I’m presuming you need to get off the B1/B2 and change to the B but I’m not sure.

No.

What the map is telling you is there will be 2 routes to and from the city to the ongar area , the B1 and B2.

The B1 will follow the current 39X route to the city albeit it will go in through the blanch centre. Obviously all stops too.

The B2 will serve the current 39 to blanch centre and then will follow the current 39A to the city.

Both routes will follow the same path giving a combined frequency between the city and Blanchardstown SC of 7.5 minutes. 2 routes will then branch off after Blanchardstown centre , to either ongar or hartstown giving a frequency of 15 minutes each .

There will be no getting off buses.

blanch152

thomasj wrote: »

No.

What the map is telling you is there will be 2 routes to and from the city to the ongar area , the B1 and B2.

The B1 will follow the current 39X route to the city albeit it will go in through the blanch centre. Obviously all stops too.

The B2 will serve the current 39 to blanch centre and then will follow the current 39A to the city.

Both routes will follow the same path giving a combined frequency between the city and Blanchardstown SC of 7.5 minutes. 2 routes will then branch off after Blanchardstown centre , to either ongar or hartstown giving a frequency of 15 minutes each .

There will be no getting off buses.

There will be getting off buses for those living in the areas between Blanchardstown Centre and the Travelodge currently served by the 39. What is worse is that they have to travel away from town to the Centre to make that change.

Victor

There is no route B. If you look at the map up close, it says "All B". All the B routes together are called the B Spine.

There is an animation of how the spines work here: https://busconnects.ie/media/1332/busconnects-03.mp4

PhoenixParker

blanch152 wrote: »

There will be getting off buses for those living in the areas between Blanchardstown Centre and the Travelodge currently served by the 39. What is worse is that they have to travel away from town to the Centre to make that change.

That seems to be one of the changes that is sensible and easy. Doesn't necessitate throwing out the whole plan. A short service linking the SC, old stops and Navan Road Parkway or similar would close the gap.

Seve OB

What's the story with fares. If you have to get connecting busses, is it gonna cost more?

PhoenixParker

Seve OB wrote: »

What's the story with fares. If you have to get connecting busses, is it gonna cost more?

No. 90 minute fares allowing interchange with buses, trains and Luas.

Seve OB

PhoenixParker wrote: »

No. 90 minute fares allowing interchange with buses, trains and Luas.

OK so how does it work.?

Let's say you want to go on a short hop but you now need 2 busses where it used to be one.

Do you give your leap card to driver and give him your end destination?

What do you say to the next driver?

blanch152

PhoenixParker wrote: »

That seems to be one of the changes that is sensible and easy. Doesn't necessitate throwing out the whole plan. A short service linking the SC, old stops and Navan Road Parkway or similar would close the gap.

Correct, and have filled out the form on Bus Connects website to suggest that.

The 261 turns into the hospital, it could loop around Navan Road Parkway and come back to do that.

davetherave

Seve OB wrote: »

OK so how does it work.?

Let's say you want to go on a short hop but you now need 2 busses where it used to be one.

Do you give your leap card to driver and give him your end destination?

What do you say to the next driver?

What they are saying is that it will either be a tag-on --> tag-off jobbie, or just a single flat fare regardless of journey length.
This will reduce dwell times as a result of less driver interaction.

https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/just-the-ticket/

Looks to be the same idea as the buses in London. A flat fee of £1.50 with a daily cap of £4.50, no cash fares, only Oyster Cards or Contactless.


Make a journey using pay as you go (contactless or Oyster) on a bus or tram, and you can make unlimited bus and tram journeys for free within one hour of touching in on the first bus or tram.

Touch in using the same card on all the bus and tram journeys you make and the free fares will be applied automatically.

Cathmandooo

Victor wrote: »

Hopefully, people can interchange between Blanchardstown village and the M50. 261 appears to operate in both directions.

You answered what I was about to ask. If the 261 goes in both directions! The B spine from the town centre shows to leave the Navan Rd at the hospital, up by Junction 6 and back down to the Navan Road by the M50 roundabout. It looks like the 261 and the B spine will meet around there for passengers to hop onto a bus into the city centre. Much better than the thought of having to go up to the town centre from the Roselawn / Village area.

Have they decided on bus stop locations yet?

Former Former

If the 261 does go in both directions, then a lot of my concerns will be alleviated. I don't mind having to transfer buses, but I would be very annoyed if I had to go significantly out of my way backwards to do so.

Cathmandooo

Former Former wrote: »

If the 261 does go in both directions, then a lot of my concerns will be alleviated. I don't mind having to transfer buses, but I would be very annoyed if I had to go significantly out of my way backwards to do so.

If you look at the interactive map you can see where the 261 route splits on one-way sections of roads which would imply it goes both directions. Up near Junction 6 / Blanch Hospital entrance is a good example to zoom in on. Big relief if that's the case!

http://interactive.map.busconnects.ie/

Victor

blanch152 wrote: »

There will be getting off buses for those living in the areas between Blanchardstown Centre and the Travelodge currently served by the 39. What is worse is that they have to travel away from town to the Centre to make that change.

I don't understand the locations, but I don't understand this comment. What trips are you talking about?

Seve OB wrote: »

OK so how does it work.?

Let's say you want to go on a short hop but you now need 2 busses where it used to be one.

Two options:
1. Tag-on on the right-hand validator. Validator know you tagged-on in the last 90 minutes and what fare you pay. Charges a total (of this trip and the previous one) of the long distance fare. The 90-minute fare is likely to be in the order of €2.10-2.60.
2. Get a short distance fare (maybe at driver, maybe at a second validator). If you get a second bus, see 1 above. If you need to get need two buses where it used to be one, then it's not a very long trip - perhaps 1.5-3.0km - one lower fare will get you most of the way.

TheChrisD

Victor wrote: »

What trips are you talking about?

The part of the current 39 that isn't being retained under the proposals, which includes direct trips from the city centre to: Blanch village, Clonsilla Road, and Coolmine Industrial Estate.

blanch152

Cathmandooo wrote: »

You answered what I was about to ask. If the 261 goes in both directions! The B spine from the town centre shows to leave the Navan Rd at the hospital, up by Junction 6 and back down to the Navan Road by the M50 roundabout. It looks like the 261 and the B spine will meet around there for passengers to hop onto a bus into the city centre. Much better than the thought of having to go up to the town centre from the Roselawn / Village area.

Have they decided on bus stop locations yet?

Former Former wrote: »

If the 261 does go in both directions, then a lot of my concerns will be alleviated. I don't mind having to transfer buses, but I would be very annoyed if I had to go significantly out of my way backwards to do so.

Yes, 261 operates in both directions.

However, there is no busstop on the B spine route between Blanchardstown Shopping Centre and the Travelodge.

So when the 261 turns into Connolly Hospital, where do you get off and then get on a B1 or B2?

TheChrisD

blanch152 wrote: »

However, there is no busstop on the B spine route between Blanchardstown Shopping Centre and the Travelodge.

So when the 261 turns into Connolly Hospital, where do you get off and then get on a B1 or B2?

There will be an interchange around that junction there somewhere. Read the map and you'll notice.

Victor

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, 261 operates in both directions.

However, there is no busstop on the B spine route between Blanchardstown Shopping Centre and the Travelodge.

So when the 261 turns into Connolly Hospital, where do you get off and then get on a B1 or B2?

This was discussed before. they can put stops on the dual carriageway around the hospital entrance / bridge.

blanch152

Victor wrote: »

This was discussed before. they can put stops on the dual carriageway around the hospital entrance / bridge.

Now that is safe.

Toto Wolfcastle

Thanks for all the info on this. It has really cleared things up for me.

AlanG

TheChrisD wrote: »

There will be an interchange around that junction there somewhere. Read the map and you'll notice.

This is not the case - I specifically asked about this at the information day and if you use the journey planner the times are all calculated based on traveling from Blanchardstown village back out to the Center.
it seems that they are tweaking the consultancy maps a bit to imply this interchange will happen as when the first map was released the B spine did not travel up the hospital slip road but part way through the consultation they altered it to show the B route exiting the dual carriageway.

I would strongly recommend that anyone who needs to change around the hospital and doesn't want to end up traveling out to the center should make this known in the consultation as it is definitely not cut and dry that there will be an interchange.

My submission suggested that the 261 travel to the Navan road train station before coming back towards the center as it would give access to the train line and it is a lot more likely to happen than a new very expensive interchange near the hospital. I also suggested works to provide a stop on the N3 near the snugbourough road bridge to allow people form the village and corduff walk down to get a bus on the dual carriageway. This would obviously be expensive to make safe and wheelchair accessible but there are plans anyway to upgrade that bridge.

blanch152

AlanG wrote: »

This is not the case - I specifically asked about this at the information day and if you use the journey planner the times are all calculated based on traveling from Blanchardstown village back out to the Center.
it seems that they are tweaking the consultancy maps a bit to imply this interchange will happen as when the first map was released the B spine did not travel up the hospital slip road but part way through the consultation they altered it to show the B route exiting the dual carriageway.

I would strongly recommend that anyone who needs to change around the hospital and doesn't want to end up traveling out to the center should make this known in the consultation as it is definitely not cut and dry that there will be an interchange.

My submission suggested that the 261 travel to the Navan road train station before coming back towards the center as it would give access to the train line and it is a lot more likely to happen than a new very expensive interchange near the hospital. I also suggested works to provide a stop on the N3 near the snugbourough road bridge to allow people form the village and corduff walk down to get a bus on the dual carriageway. This would obviously be expensive to make safe and wheelchair accessible but there are plans anyway to upgrade that bridge.

Interesting, I made a similar submission.